Brewzilla Gen4 Discussion/Tips Talk

[JoepH]

I don't understand...please explain your process better

When you are mashing in, a lot of the flour wil go through the falls bottom. When there is no circulation and the heating is on it wil burn instantly on the bottom. So mash in without heating, then pump a few minutes without heating and after that you start the program ( with heating) This way the flour milk wil be pumped to top of the grainbed and prevents burning issues.

 

[Barão]

No, the bomb was fine. Also, I started recirculation only at 64C. I did the protein rest for 20 minutes at 52C. And it was the first time I managed to recirculate efficiently. Previously, the wort would get stuck and the pump would starve. I didn't use rice husks all this time because they didn't help much before. I also have a 2022 version of Gen4. With a tight lower fabric and two handles.

you do the protein rest with the machine turned on...it starts recirculation at 64 Cº...I don't understand...please explain your process better

 

[Pan_Kotsky]

you do the protein rest with the machine turned on...it starts recirculation at 64 Cº...I don't understand...please explain your process better

There's nothing really to explain, I mash in to reach 52c. Mix it well and leave for 20 minutes. 20 mins later I mix again and ramp up the temperature to 64 and turn on the pump.

 

[Barão]

There's nothing really to explain, I mash in to reach 52c. Mix it well and leave for 20 minutes. 20 mins later I mix again and ramp up the temperature to 64 and turn on the pump.

OK...Thanks...just one question...always with the machine on ?

 

[Pan_Kotsky]

OK...Thanks...just one question...always with the machine on ?

Yes, machine is always on. I calculate the strike water with BrewTarget and after mashing in I set the desired temperature on the machine 52C and leave it alone. Once 20mins passed, I come back, stir, set the next rest temperature, wait until it rises, stir and turn on the recirculation.

I suspect your pump clogging problem arises from the bottom screen gap suggest by someone above. My screen is very tight. Flour is never an issue for my pump (only stuck mash, but that is related to the grain bed permeability). I've been doing beer for over 7 years now, so pretty much can tell the difference between a good and bad crush by eye. The crude you get in your pump has nothing to do with flour issue.

A side note, flour and sticky mash might be related to the regional variances of grain quality. I live in Canada and we have exceptional grains over here. So I attribute my previous troubles with mash to the operator's mistake and my own learning curve. So my problem was solved by wetting the grain with 2% of water by weight. 4.5kg of grain == 90ml of water.

I've heard people have issues with roller mills getting gunked up and turning handle gets harder with such method. However, with my Corona mill itwas the opposite. It required less effort, worked much more quietly. Produced exceptional crush and had no gunky residue whatsoever. So going forward I am going to do grain conditioning.

EDIT: Sorry @Barão, it was someone else who posted pictures with the gunked up pump

 

[Barão]

Sim, a máquina está sempre ligada. Calculo a água de ataque com BrewTarget e depois de amassar coloco a temperatura desejada na máquina para 52C e deixo como está. Passados 20 minutos, volto, mexo, coloco a próxima temperatura de descanso, espero subir, mexo e ligo a recirculação.

thanks

 

[Pan_Kotsky]

I haven't had any clogging problems, but love to problem solve. I use the unit straight-up stock, and have made 7 batches so far. Here's some pictures and measurements. Maybe with some compares we can find something that's different. I have the G4 35L US-120V system.

Mash Process
1. Heat water to strike temp with basket sitting in unit.
2. Raise basket to mid-way foot level, which keeps the bottom of my malt pipe just out of the water. I mash at 1.25 qt/lb, so on a recent batch that was 4.76 gallons for 13.25 lbs of grain (profile has 0.66 gal of mash tun deadspace).
3. Dump all my crushed grains in the basket.
4. Lower basket into the strike water, then with a long spoon, stir it all up quite well. Slowly, making sure I don't have any clumps/dough balls hiding out anywhere. I've never actually timed this step, but I'd estimate about 5 minutes.
5. Put the upper mash screen on.
6. Lay the recirc hose on top so it makes an 'L' shape with the hose end laying on top.
7. Turn on the pump 100% duty cycle, but recirc arm ball valve closed (lever at 9 o'clock position).
8. Open recirc arm ball valve enough to get all the air bubbles out of the line (about 7 o'clock position) briefly, then close it down until I get a steady enough stream. This is obviously highly subjective, but I aim for about a "pencil diameter". Not pencil lead, but the whole pencil. I guess it roughly necks down slightly in diameter from what it would be if it was full flow. I don't want it too fast to starve the bottom of the pipe, and I don't want it too slow where I can get a stuck mash (based on experience from my 2V brewing system). This has the lever at about 8 o'clock position.
9. I run lots of step mashes. Maybe 50% of the time I'm doing 100F, 122F, 145F, 168F. Other times it will be a 148F or 156F, followed by a 168F. I use rice hulls only if I'm doing something with > 8 oz of wheat or rye. And typically I use 4 oz of rice hulls if I have maybe up to 10% of my grist with those, otherwise about 8 oz if I'm doing something "wheaty" with like 50% of those grains.

Hardware
10. As mentioned, I'm running the 120V 35L unit.
11. Stock plumbing underneath, with the T on the output of the pump, going either to the spigot or recirc arm (but I only every use spigot when cleaning/draining).
12. As mentioned, I use the top mash screen.
13. I use the full length recirc hose, and it's long enough to bend down 90-degrees and sit on the top mash screen with a length of about 4-5".
14. I have the HED (and have used this since I got the G4).
15. Pictures below, but generally a nice fit of the pump filter screen/HED that has a bit of a gap at the outer circumference when installed, but is tight when pulling it up out of the brew unit. Using feeler gauges, with the screen biased all the way to one side, I was able to measure 0.057" gap.
16. Pictures below, but an even better fit for the bottom screen on the malt pipe. Biased to one side, I measured 0.016" gap with feeler gauges.

This is exact style of bottom screen I have. It is very tight and quite difficult to remove. But, luckily, no clogging issues.

 

[Barão]

Yes, machine is always on. I calculate the strike water with BrewTarget and after mashing in I set the desired temperature on the machine 52C and leave it alone. Once 20mins passed, I come back, stir, set the next rest temperature, wait until it rises, stir and turn on the recirculation.

I suspect your pump clogging problem arises from the bottom screen gap suggest by someone above. My screen is very tight. Flour is never an issue for my pump (only stuck mash, but that is related to the grain bed permeability). I've been doing beer for over 7 years now, so pretty much can tell the difference between a good and bad crush by eye. The crude you get in your pump has nothing to do with flour issue.

A side note, flour and sticky mash might be related to the regional variances of grain quality. I live in Canada and we have exceptional grains over here. So I attribute my previous troubles with mash to the operator's mistake and my own learning curve. So my problem was solved by wetting the grain with 2% of water by weight. 4.5kg of grain == 90ml of water.

I've heard people have issues with roller mills getting gunked up and turning handle gets harder with such method. However, with my Corona mill itwas the opposite. It required less effort, worked much more quietly. Produced exceptional crush and had no gunky residue whatsoever. So going forward I am going to do grain conditioning.

EDIT: Sorry @Barão, it was someone else who posted pictures with the gunked up pump

thanks

 

[micraftbeer]

This whole clogging vs. not-clogging thing is bizarre. We've exchanged descriptions of detailed process and one thing that stood out was it seemed pouring the grain into the basket while the basket is above the strike water versus lowering the basket into water while empty seemed a difference. I always pour the grain in basket first, then lower, and have never had these issues. But it seems this difference couldn't be attributable 100% of the time.

All these other process steps that would be directionally better (less fine of a crush, very slow recirc rate, rice hull additions, waiting 30+ minutes before doing any recirc) seem to give some people success. But I don't go to the extreme that some of the folks here have had to go to have success.

It makes me wonder if there is pump hardware sensitivity? Like some pumps have less internal clearances and as a result they are really prone to clogging. But other pumps have larger clearances and then as a result are less sensitive to grain/dust floating in the wort. I'll have to look at my pump and see if there is any serial number or batch # that we could start to collect a list and determine if "good" vs "bad" follows pump manufacturing batch. Or even better, would be to get a pump from each type of unit and swap them in & out and see if the bad performance follows a pump. Good ol' A-B-A root cause testing...

 

[Pan_Kotsky]

This whole clogging vs. not-clogging thing is bizarre. We've exchanged descriptions of detailed process and one thing that stood out was it seemed pouring the grain into the basket while the basket is above the strike water versus lowering the basket into water while empty seemed a difference. I always pour the grain in basket first, then lower, and have never had these issues. But it seems this difference couldn't be attributable 100% of the time.

That's an interesting idea. I must say that I lower empty basket in and stir with a giant grout mixer attached to a Makita drill full blast (high torque gear). Never an issue with the pump per se. Besides a stuck mash, but pump was fine. As soon as the basket drain, pump would do its thing.

 

[Barão]

Fiz dois lotes de weizenbock de 23L em BZ 35l g4, os mesmos maltes de 6,2kg e esmaguei ambas as vezes com 50% de trigo no total (12% daquele trigo em flocos).
O primeiro com B-Glucano e restos de proteína foi um desastre. Recirc começou após os primeiros 20 minutos de descanso. A taxa de drenagem foi entre muito lenta e travada. É muito necessário. Em seguida, desliguei por superaquecimento durante a fervura, após atingir 115°C. Descobriu-se que o espaço entre o prato HED e a base estava sufocado com goma/farinha, que queimava e causava sabor de fumaça queimada. Acho que toda a melhoria deve ter deixado passar muita farinha, que depois se assentou por causa do fluxo lento.

A segunda tentativa, purê de infusão única, deu certo. Desta vez, deixe o leito de grãos descansar por 50 minutos antes de recircular pelo leito. Em seguida, uma taxa de recirculação média para o restante da etapa de mosturação e mashout, mas sem mais aprimorada. Após o mosto, a base ficou praticamente livre de detritos. Drenado temporariamente para garantir que nada queime desta vez, mas é necessário ter se incomodado.

Ainda em busca de um momento ideal para a reserva inicial do leito de grãos.

Agora vi que alguns lugares estão dizendo que um descanso protéico com grãos totalmente modificados (incluindo trigo maltado) não é aconselhável. Como estes já possuem poucas cadeias de proteínas grandes restantes, a quebra delas pode variar de acordo com o corpo da cerveja.
Então, talvez um descanso apenas para os adjuntos não maltados, com uma quantidade igual de grãos maltados para as enzimas?

I've done two 23L weizenbock batches in BZ 35l g4, same 6.2kg malts & crush both times inc 50% wheat overall (12% of that flaked wheat).
First with B-Glucan and Protein rests was a disaster. Recirc started after first 20min rest. Drain rate was between very slow, and to stuck. Lots of stirring needed. Then got overheat shutdown during boil, after hitting 115°C. Turned out gap between HED dish and base was choked with gum/flour, which burnt on and caused burnt-smoke flavour. Think all the stirring must have let so much flour through, which then setteled out because of slow flow.

Second attempt, single infusion mash, went fine. This time let grain bed rest for 50min before recirculating via the bed. Then a medium recirculation rate for remainder of mash and mashout step, but no more stirring. After mash, the base was virtually clear of debris. Temporalily drained to make sure nothing to burn this time, but needent have bothered.

Still searching for an optimum time, for the initial grain bed rest.

I've now seen, that some places are saying a protein rest with fully modified grains (inc malted wheat) is not advisable. As these already have few large protein chains remaining, and breaking these down can negatively affect the beers body.
So maybe a rest for just the unmalted adjuncts, with an equla amount of malted grain for the enzymes?

On the second attempt..rest for 50 minutes..did the machine stay on?.....without rice husk ?

 

[hungupdown]

In the second attempt at resting for 50 minutes, did you keep the machine running without recirculation?................Without rice husk ?

I recirculated outside the malt pipe for 50min at maximum rate, with pipe stuck down one of the malt pipe lifting holes. This outside recirculation maintains temperature much better as the malt pipe is kept warm from all round (by the liquid surrounding liquid) as well as from below.

After 50min I changed to (mostly) slow recirculation through the malt, with occasional bursts of outside recirculation so the water in the 'dead space' (about 4l) all gets mixed in to dilute the wort while mashing (rather than mostly at end when malt pipe is lifted).

Was pleased how it went, so used same system for following brew, a budvar clone.

Next trying mod adding a second recirculation hose, so recirculation can be divided between grain and outside (without having to keep moving the pipe). Extra silicone hose now fitted to (pumped) drain spigot, so drain lever will hopefully control flow through this 2nd recirculation path. Drain lever and existing recirculation valve should control how the flow is split.
The only headache might be the extra hose getting in the way later on (drain & boil) Not sure if it'll be easier to keep it pegged up, or to lower it (& drain into a jug).

I did use oat husks, planned on using 300g ( 10% the of wheat amount). Had 300g in the stuck batch, but ran out, so only around 200g in 2nd batch.

 

[hungupdown]

That's an interesting idea. I must say that I lower empty basket in and stir with a giant grout mixer attached to a Makita drill full blast (high torque gear). Never an issue with the pump per se. Besides a stuck mash, but pump was fine. As soon as the basket drain, pump would do its thing.

I've also been using a spiral drill mixer for at dough-in.

But after a couple of badly stuck mashes, I've been looking at everyone's ideas.

Not much taken by the idea to lower pipe with some grain in, to stop the base lifting. I'm sure just a little grain, would mostly float, and lots would make it hard to then stir.
A few places explicitly say don't put grain into a raised malt pipe, as flour will get part 'sieved' through. This will then, either be carried up during recirculation to form a flour 'crust' on top of the grain, that blocks the flow, or settle out on false bottom and base, where it may burn during the boil.

Anyway I don't seem to have any issue with grains escaping the malt pipe, (from the bottom lifting). If there was, I'd just push base down with paddle after lowering.

My problem always seems to be in the malt pipe.

I've had 50% wheat recipe stick, when recirculating from start. I think doing that, flushed the flour out.
Same recipe, but 50min grain bed rest, before medium recirculation, worked fine.

So I'm thinking resting the bed helped. Rest allowed the grains and flour to hydrate with the flour staying well distributed.
Would a 20min rest be long enough?

Recently spotted that Graham Wheeler says (British real ale 3rd ed.) Stir thoroughly to avoid dry pockets, but don't over-stir or the grain will become waterlogged. Air trapped in the grain is what makes it float. If all this air is knocked out it, looses buoyancy, and will pack down more on the base.
Total extra effective weight of the grain, from none having any buoyancy, can result in a compacted bed and set mash.

That sounds very plausible. And makes me wonder if (drill) over-stirring sometimes, has been my whole problem.

So my next brew will be with a slow drill speed! - for just long enough to separate any clumps. And have a 30minute grain bed rest.
And have my fingers crossed.

 

[Barão]

Portanto, minha próxima bebida será com velocidade de perfuração lenta! - por tempo suficiente para separar quaisquer aglomerados. E faça um repouso de 30 minutos na cama com grãos.
E cruzar os dedos.

So my next brew will be with a slow drill speed! - for just long enough to separate any clumps. And have a 30minute grain bed rest.
And have my fingers crossed.

I'm also thinking like this... with the machine on while resting?

 

[hungupdown]

I'm also thinking like this... with the machine on while resting?

With outer recirculation running (a couple of posts ago), and power at 20-30%, to maintain mash at temperature.
But I'm in the Scottish highlands, maybe in warmer climes, heat loss and temperature gradients, mightn't be such an issue.

Though starting (fast) recirculation before dough in, and maintaining it, might keep any flour (that drops through as grains are added) circulating, rather than settling out and sticking on the base. Hopefully, when recirculation is changed, to via the grain bed, the circulating flour will then get filtered out.

 

[Airborneguy]

Has anyone used an Exchilerator using the onboard pump? Is it strong enough?

 

[stealthfixr]

Has anyone used an Exchilerator using the onboard pump? Is it strong enough?

Dozens of times, Gen 3 and Gen 4. No problem with either. I hookup the exchilerator right to the top camlock and it cools to garden hose temp in one pass, straight to my fermentor.

 

[Barão]

I'm curious to hear from folks who don't use the top plate in their BZ gen 4 . What do you do instead to get an even distribution of recirculating wort over the grain bed?

 

[mashdar]

I'm curious to hear from folks who don't use the top plate in their BZ gen 4 . What do you do instead to get an even distribution of recirculating wort over the grain bed?

I don't worry about it for recirc, figuring the headspace will mix a bit, and the pump will draw roughly evenly from the bottom. edit: I also recirc to the very top of the water line.

I throw the top plate on if/when sparging, mostly to protect the grain bed from being disturbed.

 

[DuncB]

I use one of these.

Sorry no pictures of me actually using it but in use no splashing and it works partly submerged. Also handy for the sparge.

 

[Stargazer]

Speaking of sparging, how do you know when to stop? I've been an 3-vessel brewer for 20 years so I'm used to being able to monitor the gravity of the runnings and the volume of wort collected, but I don't see how to do that (easily) with the Brewzilla. My last brew, I must have over-sparged since I wound up with more volume and lower gravity than expected. I use BeerSmith to calculate my brews, including the amount of water to use for sparging.

 

[dcranford]

Speaking of sparging, how do you know when to stop? I've been an 3-vessel brewer for 20 years so I'm used to being able to monitor the gravity of the runnings and the volume of wort collected, but I don't see how to do that (easily) with the Brewzilla. My last brew, I must have over-sparged since I wound up with more volume and lower gravity than expected. I use BeerSmith to calculate my brews, including the amount of water to use for sparging.

I've switched from the classic hydrometer to a refractometer and just need a couple of drops. I sparge with the malt pipe fully raised, so when I think I'm getting close I stick a spoon under the trickle and capture enough for the refractometer. Repeat as needed.

 

[Stargazer]

I've switched from the classic hydrometer to a refractometer and just need a couple of drops. I sparge with the malt pipe fully raised, so when I think I'm getting close I stick a spoon under the trickle and capture enough for the refractometer. Repeat as needed.

D’oh! I should have known that. TY

 

[KegLand]

I've switched from the classic hydrometer to a refractometer and just need a couple of drops. I sparge with the malt pipe fully raised, so when I think I'm getting close I stick a spoon under the trickle and capture enough for the refractometer. Repeat as needed.

This is more or less what I do. I think this is the best practice. There are two ways of thinking about this when you are fly sparging:

1. Keep sparging until you get down to 1.010 or something similar so you know you have rinsed most of the sugars out of the grains. If you are trying to get maximum beer from your grains this is a good idea but might require you to boil off more if you end up with too dilute wort in your boiler.
2. Use a calculator and only sparge to a specific volume that you are aiming for. This may result in leaving some sugars behind but just try not to sparge too fast as this is probably one of the most influential parts to getting all the sugars out of the malt pipe.

 

[DuncB]

I believe another approach is to use a TDS meter on the sparge liquid, but as to what you are looking for on the reading I have no idea.

 

[dcranford]

I believe another approach is to use a TDS meter on the sparge liquid, but as to what you are looking for on the reading I have no idea.

Interesting thought. That wouldn't have occurred to me, but if you know the TDS in your brewing water then I reckon maybe you can get from the TDS delta to OG somehow. [Me, I'll stick to my refractometer. ]

 

[micraftbeer]

My volume calculations come out well so I pretty much always hit my boil volume. Likewise, my mash efficiency is pretty consistent as well.
So I just leave the basket in the high drain position as the wort is heating to a boil. When it gets close to boil I pull the malt pipe and get my gravity reading. At that point I either boil at a lower power %, higher power %, or my usual. Since I normally boil around 50% power and get 0.5 gal/hr boil off, I have room to maneuver up to 1 gal/hr or down to 0.25.

 

[Barão]

In the BZ 35 lt gen4...make full volume...without washing the grains...you must consider the dead space in the pan ?

 

[DuncB]

In the BZ 35 lt gen4...make full volume...without washing the grains...you must consider the dead space in the pan ?

Depends if your dead space between malt pipe and kettle is mixed during mash or just dilutes your volume when you lift the malt pipe.

 

[Barão]

Depends if your dead space between malt pipe and kettle is mixed during mash or just dilutes your volume when you lift the malt pipe.

I only dilute the volume when I lift the malt basket

 

[Barão]

I bought a grain bag for BZ gen 4...question: put it outside the grain basket or inside the grain basket.....tanks

 

[mashdar]

I bought a grain bag for BZ gen 4...question: put it outside the grain basket or inside the grain basket.....tanks

I think some people are omitting the basket entirely. The bottom plate should keep the bag off the element.

If you want to use the basket, bag inside, I think.

(Disclaimer: I have no experience with a bag.)

 

[agentbud]

I bought a grain bag for BZ gen 4...question: put it outside the grain basket or inside the grain basket.....tanks

I put mine inside the basket and it works great

 

[Neldog0]

I bought a grain bag for BZ gen 4...question: put it outside the grain basket or inside the grain basket.....tanks

I put the grain bag on the outside of the tun. The bag will the capture any fine grains that make through the tun screen. After you raise the tun and sparge your grains &drain them, the grain bag is used to contain the hop additions during your boil. This provides for the greatest hop utilization. Once your boil is completed, lift the bag and drain it.
Using this method your are only leaving behind a fine debris field that does not interfere with the pump. Remember to recirculate for your mash.

 

[agentbud]

I put the grain bag on the outside of the tun. The bag will the capture any fine grains that make through the tun screen. After you raise the tun and sparge your grains &drain them, the grain bag is used to contain the hop additions during your boil. This provides for the greatest hop utilization. Once your boil is completed, lift the bag and drain it.
Using this method your are only leaving behind a fine debris field that does not interfere with the pump. Remember to recirculate for your mash.

I may try it on the outside next time.

 

[stealthfixr]

I am using a brew bag from (The Brew Bag-Designed for Brew In A Bag-This is your LAST brew bag!) sized for outside the malt pipe, and it works very well. Used this setup for almost a year. Every batch the bag catches about 1/8lb of malt 'gunk' and I have never had a clogged pump when using it.

 

[SacSudz]

Without having to search through 30 pages, what’s the generally accepted gap to set a grain mill to? And do you run it once or twice?

 

[Whisky River]

You don’t have to read through 30 pages you can just use the search function at the top of the screen.
The spoiler is that it depends on your set up and you would need to provide more information to get an intelligent response.

 

[SacSudz]

You don’t have to read through 30 pages you can just use the search function at the top of the screen.
The spoiler is that it depends on your set up and you would need to provide more information to get an intelligent response.

I posted in this thread, that’s my setup.

 

[Whisky River]

I posted in this thread, that’s my setup.

I couldn’t be bothered to read 30 pages to find the reference to your set up. Why don’t you tell us.

Do you use the malt pipe or a wilser bag? Have you modified your false bottom? Do you condition your grain?