Brewzilla Gen4 Discussion/Tips Talk

[theredviper]

There are instructions in the manual on reconfiguring the T junction. The manual says this would allow the tap to train even if there's a blockage in the pump. The downside I see is that you'd have to rely on gravity to drain rather than a "quick drain" by turning the pump on, which I like to use when cleaning.

Are the blocks normally in the pump itself? I'm not sure. Does Kegland sell a more powerful pump and would that help? I note the 25w version is only an upgrade for the 65L, not the 35L.

 

[stealthfixr]

I originally used rice hulls but quit after moving to the brew bag. Going to have to try adding them with the bag in place for sure! Have you noticed any difference using glucabuster and if so what differences?

I've observed a few differences using Glucabuster. I only add one drop per gallon of the batch. Do not overdose your grist--it will stick like you have never seen before. I literally had to throw out a batch by not measuring carefully.

First, the recirculation is noticeably better, even with 50% wheat. I still dough-in, stir A LOT, let it sit for a few minutes, sometimes stir again, then start recirc very slowly. I will increase the recirc rate slightly every 10 minutes or so until I get a nice 'swirl' over the top plate (which I use for even heating & flow) while still flowing evenly (wort level not raising up). Glucabuster helps me get to the easy flow point more reliably and quickly.

Second, the malt pipe drains *much* quicker with Glucabuster. The difference is actually surprising. First time I pulled the malt pipe after adding Glucabuster, I wondered if the bottom screen came loose. I'd guess and say less than half of the time needed for draining.

Last, I usually get about a 0-3% efficiency bump--usually higher the smaller the malt bill. A Saison I just brewed a week ago hit a surprising 82% mash efficiency, best I have seen with the Gen4 so far and equaling the best I ever saw with my Gen3.

Truth in advertising: I also 'sparge' by hand with about 0.8 gallons of 170F water, just pouring from my tea maker kettle onto the top screen as slowly as my lack of patience allows--having the top screen there really helps distribute the sparge water evenly without disturbing the grain bed. While I like high efficiency, repeatability and dependability are also very important for hitting OG/FGs consistently. I'd rather be very repeatable and dependable than have 82% mash efficiency.

 

[stealthfixr]

There are instructions in the manual on reconfiguring the T junction. The manual says this would allow the tap to train even if there's a blockage in the pump. The downside I see is that you'd have to rely on gravity to drain rather than a "quick drain" by turning the pump on, which I like to use when cleaning.

Are the blocks normally in the pump itself? I'm not sure. Does Kegland sell a more powerful pump and would that help? I note the 25w version is only an upgrade for the 65L, not the 35L.

I have not yet done the pump bypass option listed in the Gen4 instructions. And, I think you are right, the area where the silicone lines form a T is very likely where the clogs happen. And, since I like a clearer wort and less junk in my fermentors, I will continue to use the BrewBag and keep my Gen4 as it arrived configuration wise.

 

[BrewersVocation]

The Blichmann CIP valve works great for a recirculation and sparge arm!

 

[KegLand]

Yes. Also my plug fused to the brewzilla plug. It looks like it burnt some of the heat shrink off. Going to put this back together for now but should I look I to replacing the power cable and the power cable receptacle along with adding more heatshrink to the blue plug?

Thanks for that. If this is the case we really need to make sure all the connections are secure. We have seen a similar instance of this when the IEC cable is not fully plugged into the socket. If the cable is half plugged in the cable can arc and the constant arcing will heat up the terminals and cause them to fail. So please always be sure to fully push the cable into the IEC plug so you have a good connection.

 

[KegLand]

I've seen a modification on the kegland site showing this, it's under the changing the brewzilla pump to a 25watt one I think.

Yes there are a few youtube videos of people upgrading the pump. It really comes down to what you are using the BrewZilla for. If you are using immersion chiller the standard pump is fine but some people who are using the counter flow chiller may find it preferable to go to a larger pump.

 

[KegLand]

All of my clogged pump occurrences happened after the boil ended with a full amount (~6gal) of wort in the BZ; not anywhere near dry. I was able to unclog the pump by blowing air (not optimal with hot wort) through the lower valve. In each case, a ton of grist particles bloomed into the wort from the pump lines.

I had noticed that after pulling the malt pipe, there was much more malt particles left in the boil than I ever saw with my Gen3 BZ. Not sure if the bottom screen/plate allows more particles than a Gen3, or if the increased pump strength 'pulls' more malt pieces from the grist while recirculating during the mash--same result either way. Luckily, the BrewBag completely eliminated my clogged pump issues.

This is a bit strange. It would be good to know more about your process. We dont get blockages when we use the system ourselves so we are wondering if there is something that we are doing differently.

Just out of interest do you have the pump turned off for a any length of time. Is it possible that stuff settles in the pump. Have you also considered opening up the pump and checking there is nothing inside?

It really should not be necessary to use a brewbag. If you can explain your complete process in more detail or send photos of what you are doing that would really help so we can better understand why your system is clogging. Perhaps there is something missing you are doing differently to us.

 

[KegLand]

The Blichmann CIP valve works great for a recirculation and sparge arm!
View attachment 812899

Thanks for that. Is there any chance you can send a video. I am curious to know how well it throws especially in the upward direction. I was under the impression that this CIP ball required higher pressures to drive the CIP.

 

[garm]

This is a bit strange. It would be good to know more about your process. We dont get blockages when we use the system ourselves so we are wondering if there is something that we are doing differently.

Just out of interest do you have the pump turned off for a any length of time. Is it possible that stuff settles in the pump. Have you also considered opening up the pump and checking there is nothing inside?

It really should not be necessary to use a brewbag. If you can explain your complete process in more detail or send photos of what you are doing that would really help so we can better understand why your system is clogging. Perhaps there is something missing you are doing differently to us.

I'm not the original poster, but I've since solved my clogging problems that I had on my first couple of batches and the main causes were essentially turning the pump on with the valve fully/mostly open at the start of the mash. It'll just pull through lots of bits of grain immediately and it'll all get trapped at the crossbar of the pump inlet. I think it'd be prudent to put in the instructions that you need to have the valve closed when starting the pump and slowly open it to half open or less. It's my first all grain system, so it wasn't immediately obvious to me.

Waiting a few minutes for grain to hydrate before starting the pump, a thinner mash than the typical 1.5 qts/lb reccomendation , and a coarser crush than what my homebrew shop was doing all helped as well.

I've since got a 3 roller kegland mill and on the coarsest crush setting I'm getting no issues and 85% mash efficiency on basic single infusion mashes. Sometimes when I stir the mash the pump will start cavitating a bit, but kinking the hose or throttling the valve for a second fixes it.

My only issue is on bigger grain bills I can't get the mash to the thinness I like because the water level gets close to the holes for the malt pipe handle. It'd be nice if you made some plugs/screens for those two holes so I don't have to worry about getting grain down below the malt pipe when I stir. I guess a bung would do the trick too.

 

[garm]

Can we have the firmware patch notes posted elsewhere than on a private facebook page? You need to login and presumably be a group member to see them.

https://gitlab.com/rapt.io/public/-/issues/195https://www.facebook.com/groups/raptusersgroup

 

[BrewersVocation]

Thanks for that. Is there any chance you can send a video. I am curious to know how well it throws especially in the upward direction. I was under the impression that this CIP ball required higher pressures to drive the CIP.

I will next brew day! I CIP for 20 min after my be day and everything came out perfect.

Thanks for that. Is there any chance you can send a video. I am curious to know how well it throws especially in the upward direction. I was under the impression that this CIP ball required higher pressures to drive the CIP.

I did CIP for 20 after my brew day and it came out great. Next time it's running and post a video!

https://www.blichmannengineering.com/cip-spray-ball.html

 

[Moto]

My Gen 4 65L finally arrived after being backordered through Morebeer for almost three months. Everything was great until I plugged it in. As others have reported, it immediately turned the elements on as I was trying to get it registered.

...now new Brewzilla units that we make we set the temp back down to 0C before they are shipped so this doesn't happen.

The temp was set to 0°C, then 32°F when I changed the display units. The fire icon was not displayed on the screen indicating that the elements were on. When I finally noticed that the temp was rising, I put a couple of gallons of cold water in and continued fumbling through the damn rapt portal set up hoping it would pick up an update and fix the temperature rising problem. No firmware update, even though the version I was running was 20220721_153849_1478787.

I started the "Dry Beer Temperature Profile" from the portal. The portal made it seem like the mash profile was running, but the fire icon was not displayed. Given the complete absence of instructions, I did what seemed like the logical thing and pressed the play button on the controller. The fire icon showed up, but after about five seconds I heard a relay like sound and the controller died.

I unplugged and replugged all the connections, but the display was still dead. The one thing that kept working though is the heating element. I left it plugged in while I dug out my trusty Gen 3 35L for it's 102nd batch. Two house later the water temp in the Gen 4 with the dead controller rose to and held a consistent 138°F. It is obviously pretty concerning that this things still makes heat.

Spoke with Morebeer yesterday and they are trying to figure out whether to send a new controller or a whole new unit. In the meantime I wanted to share as a cautionary tale and hopefully prompt an explanation from Kegland.

 

[KegLand]

I'm not the original poster, but I've since solved my clogging problems that I had on my first couple of batches and the main causes were essentially turning the pump on with the valve fully/mostly open at the start of the mash. It'll just pull through lots of bits of grain immediately and it'll all get trapped at the crossbar of the pump inlet. I think it'd be prudent to put in the instructions that you need to have the valve closed when starting the pump and slowly open it to half open or less. It's my first all grain system, so it wasn't immediately obvious to me.

Waiting a few minutes for grain to hydrate before starting the pump, a thinner mash than the typical 1.5 qts/lb reccomendation , and a coarser crush than what my homebrew shop was doing all helped as well.

I've since got a 3 roller kegland mill and on the coarsest crush setting I'm getting no issues and 85% mash efficiency on basic single infusion mashes. Sometimes when I stir the mash the pump will start cavitating a bit, but kinking the hose or throttling the valve for a second fixes it.

My only issue is on bigger grain bills I can't get the mash to the thinness I like because the water level gets close to the holes for the malt pipe handle. It'd be nice if you made some plugs/screens for those two holes so I don't have to worry about getting grain down below the malt pipe when I stir. I guess a bung would do the trick too.

Thanks for this comment. We will also do more experimentation starting the pump up fast and starting slow and see if we can determine the optimal pump speed.

 

[DuncB]

My Gen 4 65L finally arrived after being backordered through Morebeer for almost three months. Everything was great until I plugged it in. As others have reported, it immediately turned the elements on as I was trying to get it registered.



The temp was set to 0°C, then 32°F when I changed the display units. The fire icon was not displayed on the screen indicating that the elements were on. When I finally noticed that the temp was rising, I put a couple of gallons of cold water in and continued fumbling through the damn rapt portal set up hoping it would pick up an update and fix the temperature rising problem. No firmware update, even though the version I was running was 20220721_153849_1478787.

I started the "Dry Beer Temperature Profile" from the portal. The portal made it seem like the mash profile was running, but the fire icon was not displayed. Given the complete absence of instructions, I did what seemed like the logical thing and pressed the play button on the controller. The fire icon showed up, but after about five seconds I heard a relay like sound and the controller died.

I unplugged and replugged all the connections, but the display was still dead. The one thing that kept working though is the heating element. I left it plugged in while I dug out my trusty Gen 3 35L for it's 102nd batch. Two house later the water temp in the Gen 4 with the dead controller rose to and held a consistent 138°F. It is obviously pretty concerning that this things still makes heat.

Spoke with Morebeer yesterday and they are trying to figure out whether to send a new controller or a whole new unit. In the meantime I wanted to share as a cautionary tale and hopefully prompt an explanation from Kegland.

That is gutting I'd be so mad the wort would boil with me near the kettle.

 

[SacSudz]

Thanks for this comment. We will also do more experimentation starting the pump up fast and starting slow and see if we can determine the optimal pump speed.

Can you please answer my question, can you run the pump at any temp or should you not use it after a particular temperature?

 

[KegLand]

That is gutting I'd be so mad the wort would boil with me near the kettle.

Hey DuncB. Can you please send us the MAC address of your device. If the boiler is boiled dry normally the boil dry switch will be triggered and it's just a matter of waiting for the thermal overload to reset and the unit will work again after this.

If your device was connected to the internet I can use the MAC address to see what is going on but it does sound pretty unusual. Hopefully the data logged to the portal will enable us to see how this happened to you.

 

[KegLand]

Can you please answer my question, can you run the pump at any temp or should you not use it after a particular temperature?

Yes you can run the pump at any temperature. I pretty much run the pump all the time.

I do find that even during the boil running the pump does help to prevent boil overs. I am not sure why this is the case but the agitation of the wort seems to improve the results for me anyway.

During water heat up I have the pump on at least 20% to prevent stratification so I get an even temp in the boiler. During mashing I am generally running the pump at about 35%. Then during the boil I might go up to 50-100% pump recirculation rate.

Also running the pump will ensure the whole recirculation arm gets hot and you are heat sterilizing all the wort in the arm.

 

[govner1]

Every time I read these posts and the middling responses from Kegland ( when they bother to respond) I’m very happy I’ve decided to go in a different direction!

 

[KegLand]

Every time I read these posts and the middling responses from Kegland ( when they bother to respond) I’m very happy I’ve decided to go in a different direction!

I am sorry you feel this way govner1. We will endeavor to check this forum more frequently. As you can imagine we sell product to more than 50 different countries and it's difficult to monitor forums in every area. With that said if you guys want the fastest response you can also join our:

RAPT Users Group
https://www.facebook.com/groups/raptusersgroup/
KegLand Home Brew Community Group
https://www.facebook.com/groups/KegLandHomeBrewCommunityGroup/
We do have a lot of Australian people in these FB groups so they can be useful if you have a specific question. Our products are released in Australia first so often we have customers with a bit more experience on the products by the time they get over to America.

 

[Moto]

Hey DuncB. Can you please send us the MAC address of your device.

Setting aside you addressing the wrong person, I would ask you to reread post 452. It does not make sense that the Gen 4 is designed to kill the controller if it boils dry, but keep heating.

Regardless, it has been unplugged since Sunday afternoon - I just plugged it in again and the controller is still dead. The elements are still making heat. In fact, they still make heat even if the dead controller is unplugged.

Can provide instructions about how to obtain the MAC address when the controller is dead?

 

[KegLand]

Setting aside you addressing the wrong person, I would ask you to reread post 452. It does not make sense that the Gen 4 is designed to kill the controller if it boils dry, but keep heating.

Regardless, it has been unplugged since Sunday afternoon - I just plugged it in again and the controller is still dead. The elements are still making heat. In fact, they still make heat even if the dead controller is unplugged.

Can provide instructions about how to obtain the MAC address when the controller is dead?

I have read the post 452 and this post really makes no sense to me. The BrewZilla has been designed so that in order for the relays for the elements to turn on it requires a signal from the controller model. If that signal disappears for any reason the elements turn off. For instance:
1. If the controller is unplugged the elements immediately turn off
2. If the power is cut the elements turn off
3. If the thermal overload is triggered the elements turn off

Also the way the firmware is designed if the elements are on then the flame icon on the screen will also be on so I can't understand how this has happened and without getting the unit back to us it's also difficult to know. I did also turn on a BrewZilla and try to replicate what the customer has said in post 452 but irrespective of what I have tried I have not been able to replicate this issue myself which is why we really need more informatoin.

There is a possibility that it's got a sticky relay or an incorrectly wired controller? With that said we did extensive testing on the relays and found them to be very reliable. Also the controller and relays are both tested with each other before the units are packed up and shipped. So I also see this as a low likelihood. Ultimately to really get to the bottom of this mystery we need to get the unit back for further bench testing as I have never heard of this issue despite selling many thousands of these so far. I have not heard of elements staying on when the controller is not on so we really need more information to understand this unique issue.

The customer in post 452 has also said "there is a complete absence of instructions" but all our instructions are downloadable and the Gen 4 instruction sheet can be found here:
https://www.kegland.com.au/media/pdf/KL27434 - BrewZilla 35L Gen 4 Instruction Manual.pdf

The instruction manual can also be downloaded from More Beer in America too if that is where the unit was purchased from.
I will note the instruction manual states under WARNING: IMPORTANT INFORMATION not to "energize the device until you fill with minimum of 4L of liquid".
Even if the customer has not been able to find or read the instruction sheet we will still warranty the device as we ultimately just want to make sure the customer has a good experience. It would certainly help if customers did read the instructions sheet before using the device though. If you ever have a difficult time finding the instruction sheet please contact us in Australia and we can email you a copy. Once upon a time we used to send out hard copy instruction sheets with the device but as the devices are manufactured often 6 months prior to when the devices are purchased by the end user to customer we prefer to force customers to download the instruction sheet as it's getting updated as new firmware is released and that happens quite frequently and the last thing we want is for customers to get an outdated instruction sheet.

 

[KegLand]

I just got my first all-grain system (Brewzilla Gen 4) and I’d love to get the HED but it’s not available in the U.S. I’d also love to get the RAPT Bluetooth Thermometer and the 35L Neoprene Jacket, but — also both unavailable in the U.S. I feel like I’ve been checking the MoreBeer site for months now. Is this kind of delay in supply for the U.S. market typical for Kegland?

We release all our new products in Australia first as it's the perfect size market for us to get feedback from. As we have our own customer service team in Australia we like to release in Australia so we can get feedback from our customers here and our design team has more direct contact with the end user so it's a faster and more convenient feedback loop. By releasing in the smaller Australian market first we can:

1. Give adequate time for us to scale up manufacturing
2. Give adequate time for us to promote the product with distributors and give them tips on how to support the products based on customer feedback in Australia
3. Give us time to get feedback on the product just incase we want to make any further changes before the products are released overseas

So I do apologies that sometimes our products take a bit longer to arrive overseas. If you hassle your local distributor enough sometimes they might pay a bit extra and get an air mail shipment over for you.

 

[KegLand]

Setting aside you addressing the wrong person, I would ask you to reread post 452. It does not make sense that the Gen 4 is designed to kill the controller if it boils dry, but keep heating.

Regardless, it has been unplugged since Sunday afternoon - I just plugged it in again and the controller is still dead. The elements are still making heat. In fact, they still make heat even if the dead controller is unplugged.

Can provide instructions about how to obtain the MAC address when the controller is dead?

Also if you do not have the MAC address if you an PM me your email address and I can try and look up the MAC address from your email. This will help to see the data on the back end.

 

[BrewersVocation]

I have read the post 452 and this post really makes no sense to me. The BrewZilla has been designed so that in order for the relays for the elements to turn on it requires a signal from the controller model. If that signal disappears for any reason the elements turn off. For instance:
1. If the controller is unplugged the elements immediately turn off
2. If the power is cut the elements turn off
3. If the thermal overload is triggered the elements turn off

Also the way the firmware is designed if the elements are on then the flame icon on the screen will also be on so I can't understand how this has happened and without getting the unit back to us it's also difficult to know. I did also turn on a BrewZilla and try to replicate what the customer has said in post 452 but irrespective of what I have tried I have not been able to replicate this issue myself which is why we really need more informatoin.

There is a possibility that it's got a sticky relay or an incorrectly wired controller? With that said we did extensive testing on the relays and found them to be very reliable. Also the controller and relays are both tested with each other before the units are packed up and shipped. So I also see this as a low likelihood. Ultimately to really get to the bottom of this mystery we need to get the unit back for further bench testing as I have never heard of this issue despite selling many thousands of these so far. I have not heard of elements staying on when the controller is not on so we really need more information to understand this unique issue.

The customer in post 452 has also said "there is a complete absence of instructions" but all our instructions are downloadable and the Gen 4 instruction sheet can be found here:
https://www.kegland.com.au/media/pdf/KL27434 - BrewZilla 35L Gen 4 Instruction Manual.pdf

The instruction manual can also be downloaded from More Beer in America too if that is where the unit was purchased from.
I will note the instruction manual states under WARNING: IMPORTANT INFORMATION not to "energize the device until you fill with minimum of 4L of liquid".
Even if the customer has not been able to find or read the instruction sheet we will still warranty the device as we ultimately just want to make sure the customer has a good experience. It would certainly help if customers did read the instructions sheet before using the device though. If you ever have a difficult time finding the instruction sheet please contact us in Australia and we can email you a copy. Once upon a time we used to send out hard copy instruction sheets with the device but as the devices are manufactured often 6 months prior to when the devices are purchased by the end user to customer we prefer to force customers to download the instruction sheet as it's getting updated as new firmware is released and that happens quite frequently and the last thing we want is for customers to get an outdated instruction sheet.

Quality and Professional response to an inconsiderate and rude shout-out. A++

I know being on forums can get hairy, but thank you for being active in the homebrew community. I think it helps both parties overall, we appreciate your involvement to move home brewing forward!

 

[Moto]

@KegLand - What firmware version did you test on? You have previously mentioned that there are frequent firmware updates, but the unit Morebeer just received from China and shipped to me was on a version dated July 21, 2022. And it did not grab an update once connected to the portal.

Is there some magic sequence of button press combinations that would reset the controller?

If this is a stuck relay, is there something that can be done to unstick it?

Are there any replaceable fuses in the controller and/or in the electronics?

I did read the instructions. Given the usage of the term energize throughout the manual, I interpreted the second sentence of the 7th warning as meaning energizing the heating elements. The preceding sentence references boiling, so the context of the entire paragraph would logically be assumed to be about boiling, not about plugging the unit in. This is reinforced with the statement on page 9: "Once the profile has been sent to the device it will automatically energize the device..." If you really want users to fill the unit with water as a part of the set up, then insert a step 1.5 on page 8 that says "Fill with 4 liters of water." Also, explicitly advise against plugging the unit into a power source before filling with water.

My comment about the lack of instructions, when read in context, was about using the portal to control the Gen 4. The paragraph at the bottom of page 9 describes this vaguely and does not represent what many think of as actual instructions. Instructions walk a person through each step. For example, 1. Click on the X button, 2. Select either Y or Z from the Q menu, 3. Enter a value in the W field etc...

The reality is that the icon usage in the portal and their assigned functions, and the overall navigation is definitely not intuitive. Instead it is immensely frustrating. One of many examples is the ubiquitous play icon. Most seasoned Robobrew/Brewzilla users, and humans in general, would hit the play icon to start the heating process. Not in the portal - this is what you click on to select a Profile and create a profile name. I learned this not from the manual, but from trial and error. I will stop with that example and summarize by saying the first major topic covered in the manual dedicates two pages to the portal, but only a single paragraph to describing how it could possibly be used. The opportunities for improvement in this area are quite plentiful.

One final point has been made by multiple people but it does not seem to have landed - many on this forum are not Facebook users. Referring people to Facebook for the most update information and product support can come off as offensive. According to a recent Pew Research Center, only 61% of adult males in America use Facebook.

 

[Moto]

Also if you do not have the MAC address if you an PM me your email address and I can try and look up the MAC address from your email. This will help to see the data on the back end.

I cannot PM you, but I was able to poke around on the portal and find it:

b4-8a-0a-82-68-a8

For anyone else trying to find their MAC address in the portal, click on the pencil in a square icon on the Dashboard page.

 

[stealthfixr]

Look what just came from Australia…first brew with it next weekend.

 

[SanPancho]

@KegLand

you guys got the rapt software all sorted out yet in re: the alerts for mobile phones? i havent had to brew in a while so i havent checked but last time you guys pulled all the alert function out of profiles. i saw a notice that alerts were coming back but would love to know so i can spend the time to test and set profiles before i brew....

 

[agentbud]

Look what just came from Australia…first brew with it next weekend.
View attachment 813558

hmmm... how did you swing that?

 

[govner1]

Squeaky wheel……

 

[KegLand]

@KegLand - What firmware version did you test on? You have previously mentioned that there are frequent firmware updates, but the unit Morebeer just received from China and shipped to me was on a version dated July 21, 2022. And it did not grab an update once connected to the portal.

Is there some magic sequence of button press combinations that would reset the controller?

If this is a stuck relay, is there something that can be done to unstick it?

Are there any replaceable fuses in the controller and/or in the electronics?

I did read the instructions. Given the usage of the term energize throughout the manual, I interpreted the second sentence of the 7th warning as meaning energizing the heating elements. The preceding sentence references boiling, so the context of the entire paragraph would logically be assumed to be about boiling, not about plugging the unit in. This is reinforced with the statement on page 9: "Once the profile has been sent to the device it will automatically energize the device..." If you really want users to fill the unit with water as a part of the set up, then insert a step 1.5 on page 8 that says "Fill with 4 liters of water." Also, explicitly advise against plugging the unit into a power source before filling with water.

My comment about the lack of instructions, when read in context, was about using the portal to control the Gen 4. The paragraph at the bottom of page 9 describes this vaguely and does not represent what many think of as actual instructions. Instructions walk a person through each step. For example, 1. Click on the X button, 2. Select either Y or Z from the Q menu, 3. Enter a value in the W field etc...

The reality is that the icon usage in the portal and their assigned functions, and the overall navigation is definitely not intuitive. Instead it is immensely frustrating. One of many examples is the ubiquitous play icon. Most seasoned Robobrew/Brewzilla users, and humans in general, would hit the play icon to start the heating process. Not in the portal - this is what you click on to select a Profile and create a profile name. I learned this not from the manual, but from trial and error. I will stop with that example and summarize by saying the first major topic covered in the manual dedicates two pages to the portal, but only a single paragraph to describing how it could possibly be used. The opportunities for improvement in this area are quite plentiful.

One final point has been made by multiple people but it does not seem to have landed - many on this forum are not Facebook users. Referring people to Facebook for the most update information and product support can come off as offensive. According to a recent Pew Research Center, only 61% of adult males in America use Facebook.

Hello Moto. I did the testing on the latest firmware that was Jan this year. With that said the parts of the firmware that control safety and thermal cut out have not changed from the current firmware and the older 2022 firmware and neither has the logic around the flame icon and element being on.

As it seemed you worked out the Play button on the BrewZilla immediately turns off/on all elements. With the play button on the portal we do have messages that pop up over the button that might help you. For instance if you hover the mouse over the play pause button for about 1 sec it should come up with the text box "Start Profile Session".

With that said I will bring this up with the team and we really should make the patform as intuitive as possible. We do also have some help on the dashboard and if you click on the blue "?" button it will bring up dashboard help like this:

I would agree that we should continue to improve the UI as I think it's a bit messy. With that said this has also been highlighted internally in our team so you will probably find the app.rapt.io portal change quite a bit over the next couple of years and all these changes will be backward compatible with devices you have now.

 

[KegLand]

@KegLand - What firmware version did you test on? You have previously mentioned that there are frequent firmware updates, but the unit Morebeer just received from China and shipped to me was on a version dated July 21, 2022. And it did not grab an update once connected to the portal.

Is there some magic sequence of button press combinations that would reset the controller?

If this is a stuck relay, is there something that can be done to unstick it?

Are there any replaceable fuses in the controller and/or in the electronics?

I did read the instructions. Given the usage of the term energize throughout the manual, I interpreted the second sentence of the 7th warning as meaning energizing the heating elements. The preceding sentence references boiling, so the context of the entire paragraph would logically be assumed to be about boiling, not about plugging the unit in. This is reinforced with the statement on page 9: "Once the profile has been sent to the device it will automatically energize the device..." If you really want users to fill the unit with water as a part of the set up, then insert a step 1.5 on page 8 that says "Fill with 4 liters of water." Also, explicitly advise against plugging the unit into a power source before filling with water.

My comment about the lack of instructions, when read in context, was about using the portal to control the Gen 4. The paragraph at the bottom of page 9 describes this vaguely and does not represent what many think of as actual instructions. Instructions walk a person through each step. For example, 1. Click on the X button, 2. Select either Y or Z from the Q menu, 3. Enter a value in the W field etc...

The reality is that the icon usage in the portal and their assigned functions, and the overall navigation is definitely not intuitive. Instead it is immensely frustrating. One of many examples is the ubiquitous play icon. Most seasoned Robobrew/Brewzilla users, and humans in general, would hit the play icon to start the heating process. Not in the portal - this is what you click on to select a Profile and create a profile name. I learned this not from the manual, but from trial and error. I will stop with that example and summarize by saying the first major topic covered in the manual dedicates two pages to the portal, but only a single paragraph to describing how it could possibly be used. The opportunities for improvement in this area are quite plentiful.

One final point has been made by multiple people but it does not seem to have landed - many on this forum are not Facebook users. Referring people to Facebook for the most update information and product support can come off as offensive. According to a recent Pew Research Center, only 61% of adult males in America use Facebook.

Also with regards to button presses to reset the controller.


If you want to delete your settings (this deletes non-volatile memory storage (NVS) that contain settings)
1. Unplug power
2. Hold down the up and down arrow plug while plugging the cable back into the power point

If you want to get into the boot menu you can get options to rollback firmware, upgrade firmware, reset the controller, delete NVS or do other basic tasks you can get into this menu by:
1. Unplug power
2. Hold down the up down arrows and also the cycle and enter button all at the same time while plugging into the power point.
(this is really best done with a friend to help you)

 

[KegLand]

I cannot PM you, but I was able to poke around on the portal and find it:

b4-8a-0a-82-68-a8

For anyone else trying to find their MAC address in the portal, click on the pencil in a square icon on the Dashboard page.

Thanks for that. I am looking at the diagnostics log and unfortunately I can't see any information here unfortunately that assists much.

I think the best plan is to put the device into the boot menu (as described above) then using the boot menu connect the controller back to wifi using your SSID and password. Then do a firmware upgrade. Your current firmware is quite old and the new firmware had quite a few bug fixes in it. It could also be a corrupt firmware and normally downloading a new firmware will also solve this.

 

[govner1]

you will probably find the app.rapt.io portal change quite a bit over the next couple of years and all these changes will be backward compatible with devices you have now.

That’s presuming you want to wait a couple of years for your, by then, outdated or non functional system, to finally ( maybe) function as promised initially!

 

[KegLand]

That’s presuming you want to wait a couple of years for your, by then, outdated or non functional system, to finally ( maybe) function as promised initially!

Hello Govner1. That seems like quite a negative statement assuming that our system will be outdated and not functioning in the future. I guess the same thing could be said about any platform.

Kegland is dedicated to ensuring that the RAPT platform is being developed and has designated substantial resources to:
1. Developing the web portal
2. Continuing to develop new firmware for the devices and continuing to update existing devices that have already been sold
3. Introducing new devices to work with existing devices

Even though the BrewZilla Gen 4 has many new accessories, features and ad-on planed it doesn't take away from the fact that it has already won many BJCP certified competitions and proven itself as being a great brewery not to mention it's the highest selling single vessel brewery around the world too. I am clearly biased here but I would say that there are other breweries that are substantially more expensive that have less features and more bugs.

With that said if for some reason if you feel that any of our products are getting outdated or are not functioning then please notify us and we will ensure they are updated as quickly as possible. We do have this page here for bugs and feature requests:
Default · Boards · Rapt.Io / Rapt.Io · GitLab

 

[KegLand]

i'm game. i'll go ahead and do the calibrations in C to make it easy.

that way i'll have some data to submit when i email them about the temp problems.

on different note- how do we DIY that crappy "alert" function to actually be something you'd notice? any idea of how to turn an email into more of an actual "loud-noise-from-phone" type alert? was wondering if you could somehow turn the email into a text or something like that, maybe via google voice? set that "caller" to have a really loud/annoying notification sound. etc. really dont care about the contents of email i dont think, just want some way to make my phone do a noisy alert...

Hello SanPancho. I think we might have missed this comment previously regarding notifications.

If you want to get push notifications you need to install the app on your phone. (please make sure it's updated to the latest version). This app is a webview app that renders the RAPT portal into your phone screen better but it also allows push notifications to occur. Once you have the app on your phone installed you can use your phone settings to change your notification settings on your phone to make an audible sound that you hear for instance but this is not controlled by our app it's a setting on your phone.

Android:
RAPT Android APP

iPhone:
RAPT Apple Device

 

[KegLand]

I think I now have a fix for the Brewzilla Gen 4 temperature calibration issue!

After my third attempt at trying to resolve the temperature difference on my Brewzilla, I think I sort of understand how the calibration algorithm works, at least in general. Knowing how it works is the first step of the solution. I was not able to find out from Kegland what the actual algorithm was, so I had to figure it out by logical deduction. I think the algorithm adjusts the entire temperature range rather than fix two points. Let me explain by using a simple example. I'll use the metric system as the example since there is exactly 100 degrees between the freezing point and the boiling point at sea level, so it is easier to illustrate. (For the Imperial system, it is obviously 180 degrees).

Let's say you measure your Brewzilla temperature with room temperature water, and find it reads low. This could be because the freezing point reads, let's say, 5 degrees too low and the boiling point reads 5 degrees too high. Thus there is a 110 degree range between the freezing point (0) and the boiling point (100). There should only be 100 degrees between these two points.

So you add ice water to the Brewzilla, run the recirculation arm and let the temperature adjust. The Brewzilla reads -5.0 C rather than 0. So you set the calibration point by raising it 5 degrees. Now there is a 105 degree spread between the freezing point and the boiling point rather than 110. Now when you read the water at room temperature, you are closer, but still it is out.

What has happened is that by raising it 5 degrees, you are still 5 degrees out in total. Brewzilla spreads this difference by splitting the 5 in half. So now when you go to the boiling point calibration, the Brewzilla reads 2.5 degrees too high. So you set the calibration point 2.5 degrees lower. Now you have a total range of 102.5. So the range still has 2.5 degrees too much. So it divides the difference, and now, if you were to go back to the freezing temperature, it would read 1.25 degrees too low. You adjust again. Each time the total difference will be halved as to what it was before. So you can repeat the calibration again and again until you feel it is close enough. It will never reach a range of exactly 100, because you are dividing the difference by a half each time.

So the bottom line is that if your Brewzilla is only a degree or two out initially, you may only need to do the calibration once. It should be close enough. But, if you are out by, for example, 7 degrees, as I was, you will need to repeat the calibration at least 3 times, or whenever you can live with the difference.

Note that my explanation is a simplification based on observation and deduction. There may be additional factors in the calibration algorithm, but I think that it is basically how it works.

I think there might be a trick to do it just once. If you were to initially take the reading at the freezing point as well as at the boiling point, and determine the entire spread (e.g. let's say 110 degrees), then if you were to just add that entire difference (10 degrees) at the freezing point calibration (rather than the correct temperature at that point), you should end up with the right range immediately, and thus all the temperatures should line up. Or even easier, rather than going back to the freezing point again, just make the adjustments while you're at the boiling point - and lower it by the difference. That way you only have to do it once.

I haven't tried this, but if anyone does, please let us know how it turned out.

Hey guys. It seems that there has been some "mystery" regarding how the calibration process works so we made this video to explain the process for you in more detail. Let us know if there is anything that we have missed:

 

[Bottoms_Up]

Hey guys. It seems that there has been some "mystery" regarding how the calibration process works so we made this video to explain the process for you in more detail. Let us know if there is anything that we have missed:

Thank you very much for the great video - it explains many of the questions I had. One thing, though. This process may work well when the temperature probe is only out by a degree or two, but many of us here (and in other forums) have experienced a difference of about 7 degrees as it was set up by the factory when delivered to us. When I tried calibrating it, the two-point calibration only got me a little closer (maybe to within about 4 degrees instead of 7), so I ended up redoing the calibration three separate consecutive times to get it within a degree, at the range I'm working with (i.e. between about 120 F and 170 F). Is this 3-times calibration to be expected when the difference is that high (i.e. 7 degrees)?

The other point I wish to make is that the cup of ice could give you bad readings. Many people seem to think that ice in ice water is at the freezing point. This is not so. Ice can be MUCH lower than freezing temperature, so if the end of the probe happens to be in contact with the ice rather than the water, you could end up reading temperatures lower than freezing and thus ending up with incorrect results. I would think that fewer ice cubes, rather than a cup filled with them, is preferable. And also make sure the probe is only in contact with the water, not the ice. It's the temperature of the almost frozen water that we should be measuring in the calibration, not the temperature of the ice. Even the water might be a touch under the freezing point, as it hasn't frozen yet.

 

[morpheusda]

I read all about temperature calibration , i watch the video 3 times.
I done the calibration 3 times without success.
I just cant calibrate the temperature so that it shows correct values.
And it is off with most important temperature around 60-80C.
Maybe would help if I calibrate it on 1 point around 60C and 2 point around 75C ???
Or if we have option like on previous models and some of the others manufacturer to change the temperature with + and - to the correct level.

 

[amr]

Hello Govner1. That seems like quite a negative statement assuming that our system will be outdated and not functioning in the future. I guess the same thing could be said about any platform.

Kegland is dedicated to ensuring that the RAPT platform is being developed and has designated substantial resources to:
1. Developing the web portal
2. Continuing to develop new firmware for the devices and continuing to update existing devices that have already been sold
3. Introducing new devices to work with existing devices

Even though the BrewZilla Gen 4 has many new accessories, features and ad-on planed it doesn't take away from the fact that it has already won many BJCP certified competitions and proven itself as being a great brewery not to mention it's the highest selling single vessel brewery around the world too. I am clearly biased here but I would say that there are other breweries that are substantially more expensive that have less features and more bugs.

With that said if for some reason if you feel that any of our products are getting outdated or are not functioning then please notify us and we will ensure they are updated as quickly as possible. We do have this page here for bugs and feature requests:
Default · Boards · Rapt.Io / Rapt.Io · GitLab

Classy response to a fairly incendiary post. Appreciate the work you guys are doing. Thank you.