Brewing with Corn Meal, lots of Corn Meal

[Jakkob]

Hi all,

I came up with a recipe that I really like using corn meal:
----------------------------------------------
-10 lbs of corn meal
-9 lbs of Pale American 2-Row
-1 lb of crystal 10*
-3 lbs of rice hulls

+1 ounce of Northern Brewer at 60mins

-fermented at 68* with US-05
----------------------------------------------

I did a cereal mash with the corn, added to the mash, and started recirculating with my HERMS.

Within 10 minutes the grain bed compacted and created a stuck sparge.

I really like this recipe, is there any way I can make this beer without having such a pain in the neck mashing and sparging?

 

[C-Rider]

Hi all,

I came up with a recipe that I really like using corn meal:
----------------------------------------------
-10 lbs of corn meal
-9 lbs of Pale American 2-Row
-1 lb of crystal 10*
-3 lbs of rice hulls

+1 ounce of Northern Brewer at 60mins

-fermented at 68* with US-05
----------------------------------------------

I did a cereal mash with the corn, added to the mash, and started recirculating with my HERMS.

Within 10 minutes the grain bed compacted and created a stuck sparge.

I really like this recipe, is there any way I can make this beer without having such a pain in the neck mashing and sparging?

You say you like this recipe....Have you done it before w/o the stuck sparge? Why do you "like" it if you haven't done it before and it gets "suck"? Not trying to be a wise guy, but I'm just wondering ....

 

[Jakkob]

You say you like this recipe....Have you done it before w/o the stuck sparge? Why do you "like" it if you haven't done it before and it gets "suck"? Not trying to be a wise guy, but I'm just wondering ....

Fair enough haha,

I've done it before, and am brewing a second time now.

It's been stuck both times; last time there was a lot of corn meal powder that ended up in the carboy as a result, but it compacted in the lees and turned out quite nice despite the high amounts of corn.

Just kind of a pain

 

[Paps]

Try more rice hulls...........
LOTS
of rice hulls.

 

[Jakkob]

Try more rice hulls...........
LOTS
of rice hulls.

I'm inclined to agree; first time I brewed I used 1 pound of rice hulls. 3x as much has been an improvement, but probably not enough

 

[C-Rider]

Fair enough haha,

I've done it before, and am brewing a second time now.

It's been stuck both times; last time there was a lot of corn meal powder that ended up in the carboy as a result, but it compacted in the lees and turned out quite nice despite the high amounts of corn.

Just kind of a pain

How about trying BIAB?

 

[Jakkob]

How about trying BIAB?

^^That's a really good idea, it would make clearing a stuck sparge a lot easier I'd imagine.

The more rice hulls helped, I was actually able to (very slowly and cautiously) lauter the entire tun without any problems, but recirculating didn't work.

Thinking BIAB, more rice hulls, or maybe saving even more money and buying 50lbs of feed corn, milling it coarsely, and then BIAB/rice hulls.

 

[Magnus314]

The cereal mash isn't helping.

When the corn gels it turns into like a chunky polenta, then after a little bit the enzymes start to break it down and it loosens up a bit.

I once had the genius idea to start with some of the mash water, boil it and add the cornmeal, and then stir the barley in once the corn was gelled...

... BIG mistake. It was huge floating gobs of corn balls and the efficiency was terrible since so much of the corn wasn't accessible to the enzymes.

Try mashing in the barley first, then stir in the cornmeal, or mix the two together first before you mash in.

And you might want to let the mash go a little longer than normal because of the relatively low diastatic power, and the gel time.

You might also want to line the mash tun with a BIAB bag (or just do it biab). That's how I do it

 

[Jakkob]

The cereal mash isn't helping.

When the corn gels it turns into like a chunky polenta, then after a little bit the enzymes start to break it down and it loosens up a bit.

I once had the genius idea to start with some of the mash water, boil it and add the cornmeal, and then stir the barley in once the corn was gelled...

... BIG mistake. It was huge floating gobs of corn balls and the efficiency was terrible since so much of the corn wasn't accessible to the enzymes.

Try mashing in the barley first, then stir in the cornmeal, or mix the two together first before you mash in.

And you might want to let the mash go a little longer than normal because of the relatively low diastatic power, and the gel time.

You might also want to line the mash tun with a BIAB bag (or just do it biab). That's how I do it

Great tips, thanks for the advice

 

[RM-MN]

BIAB, no recircualtion. Plan on a very small sparge or none at all so your mash is very loose. Stir your mixed grains in with a wire whisk to avoid dough balls. You won't need any rice hulls with your mash held in a bag as the bag forms a much bigger filter but if you recirculate you can still plug up the pores in the bag.

 

[wtaylor3]

I agree with putting the cornmeal in a bag as I do this with the pumpkin pie filling in my pumpkin ale

 

[C-Rider]

Knowing that "Home Distillers" use lots of corn I did some research and found this. Perhaps you can use it somehow to make your beer....

figured I give a yell over the mountains and tell yall about the corn and barley mash I ran this week,
I took 8 pounds of cracked corn in a cooler and covered it with 2 gallons of boiling backset ....and let it set in the cooler for 24 hours.
the next day I started 2 more gallons of water heating and tossed that stiff corn mix in .
....brought it up to 130, rest for 30 mins (cutting the heat)
...brought it up tp 165, rest for 30 mins
brought it up to 200 ....added 1/2 pound malted 6-row. ...let it cool to 150
dumped back in the cooler added 2.5 pounds 6-row ...power-stirred every 15-20 mins.
let it mash n cool overnight...
the next moning, twas as sweet as creamed corn
transferred to the fermenter and topped up to 7 gallons total.
at 95 degrees, tossed a yeast bomb in from a batch of Rad's all-bran. Took off in 2 -3 hours.
Didn't measure SG, but I'll let ya know what I get when I run it.v

 

[Jakkob]

I think distillers get off easy using cornmeal because they ferment it and distill it without separating the wort from the the grains. We homebrewers aren't so lucky.
It was definitely worth a read though!

Seems like BIAB is a good way to go, I recently saw this YouTube video (I think it was the only one on cereal mashing) by Basic Brewing, and although it freaked me out when they twisted the bag potentially extracting lots of tannins, it seemed relatively painless for them and they use lots of corn meal: Basic Brewing Video - Homegrown Organic Corn Pilsner - January 16, 2010

 

[Magnus314]

50/50 is a LOT of corn.

It will take many hours to convert cracked corn using 50/50 barley.

If you're going to do it with el cheapo corn, grind it fine using a Corona-type mill first.

Otherwise, you'll need like a 24 hour mash to get good efficiency, and that'll sour.

In my experience, aside from distiller's mashes, feed corn makes awful tasting beer and never fully converts. If you try it, i hope you have better experiences with it.

 

[Jakkob]

Thanks for the info; sounds like surface area is critical for conversion with corn.
I need to use more rice hulls or do biab with corn meal or finely ground feed corn, but with more rice hulls the cheap appeal of this beer could start to go down

 

[JF_HBrews]

^^ x2
The cost of rice hulls being as much as specialty grains kind of tuns me off from wanting to do high %'s of rye, wheat, oat or corn and anything flaked.

 

[Paps]

the cheap appeal of this beer could start to go down

Try your hand at making your own belgian candy sugar.
It's not hard to do if you have a `candy thermometer` (4 bux @ wal-mart)

 

[Jakkob]

I do enjoy making Belgian candy sugar; I even add a bit of malt extract and a few drops of strong lye solution, kind of like what this page describes, except I add the malt/yeast nutrient after the conversion in a water solution to avoid recrystallization problems: http://ryanbrews.blogspot.ca/2012/02/candy-syrup-right-way-hint-weve-been.html?m=1

Also I was thinking about cereal mashing in general, and I am wondering what the average level of grind is used on the cereal. Seems like everyone uses a very fine grind from corn to rice to barley?

 

[Magnus314]

If you buy in bulk you can get fine cornmeal really cheap.

I think it's like $3 for 5# at the grocery store, so it must be in like a 50# sack somewhere for even less.

 

[C-Rider]

^^ x2
The cost of rice hulls being as much as specialty grains kind of tuns me off from wanting to do high %'s of rye, wheat, oat or corn and anything flaked.

$2 a lb here in Hawai`i. But then you get a lot of hulls in a pound. LOL