Brewing what you've got

[Oberon67]

How often is it that you have plenty of malt, yeast, and hops, but not all the specific things for any one recipe... so you brew what you've got?

Because, you know, maybe you don't have Pale Ale malt, but you've got two-row. And maybe your recipe calls for Columbia hops for bittering, but all you've got on hand are aroma hops.

So I'm thinking that, for a small batch at least, I'd brew with the two-row in place of the Pale Ale, and try the Simcoe hops for bittering because, even though they're preferred for dry hopping, they're still hops, and should bitter just fine.

The result you get won't quite be what the recipe intended, but it will still be beer, and there's no reason why it shouldn't be good beer at that.

So how often do you sub ingredients based on what you have on hand?

 

[estricklin]

Glad I'm not the only person that has had this problem. The logical answer is, just go get the correct ingredients. The answer is, the LHBS is over an hour away, and I don't always have the time or money. When I get a chance to brew I take it, and sometimes that means making use of what I have.

I don't think it's all that bad actually, have had some good successes this way. Of coarse I try to plan ahead better these days, but ya know how that goes.

 

[WayFrae]

How often is it that you have plenty of malt, yeast, and hops, but not all the specific things for any one recipe... so you brew what you've got?

Because, you know, maybe you don't have Pale Ale malt, but you've got two-row. And maybe your recipe calls for Columbia hops for bittering, but all you've got on hand are aroma hops.

So I'm thinking that, for a small batch at least, I'd brew with the two-row in place of the Pale Ale, and try the Simcoe hops for bittering because, even though they're preferred for dry hopping, they're still hops, and should bitter just fine.

The result you get won't quite be what the recipe intended, but it will still be beer, and there's no reason why it shouldn't be good beer at that.

So how often do you sub ingredients based on what you have on hand?

Honestly I didn't know there was a difference between 2-row and pale ale malt. Whenever a recipe calls for pale ale malt I just use 2-row. I have used Simcoe, Amarillo, and even Citra for bittering before. It works just fine.

 

[sportpak]

I usually grab an extra pound of a variety of steeping/adjunct grains. That way if I want to tweak an AG recipe I have a little extra chocolate or honey malt in reserve. I don't mind an easy extract brew in the 1-2 gallon size, so a small variety of grains for steeping are handy to have too. Things like flaked wheat, barely, or oats are cheap enough to always have a pound or two on hand.

 

[RM-MN]

What passes for an LHBS here is half an hour away and has a very limited selection of grains and no mill so I try (notice I said try) to keep a stock of grains on hand but it seems like I'm always missing one or 2 that the recipe calls for so I guess at a decent substitute.

I made a cream ale for a neighbor and went to put my Saaz hops in and found that I didn't have any. Hmm.. the wort is almost to a boil, I'll just substitute Cascade, after all, it's just for bittering. Bad move, I got a surprising amount of grapefruit flavor to carry through even with an hour long boil.

BTW, in case you didn't know there is a brewers malt, pale malt, and pale ale malt. Brewer's malt is the lightest, pale ale malt the darkest. I use what I have on hand.

 

[Oberon67]

So if you were making primarily ales and you wanted to have a handful of yeasts on hand, which ones would you choose?

 

[Owly055]

Brewing is like Sex ........... The joy is in experimentation and unfettered enthusiasm. It's a voyage of discovery

Brewing by slavishly following a recipe works for some folks........ Not for me. Recipes give me ideas, not connect the dots scripted processes I'm interested in following again and again if ever. Do you dress up in character and roll play using a script with your lover, or repeat the exact sequence of steps trying to recreate the same experience again and again? Repetition is for commercial breweries. Like the classic "Rat Burger", Budweiser caters to folks who expect every bottle of beer to be identical... just like every Big Mac. It's an accomplishment, something that takes a great deal of skill and technology. It is NOT what I want. I want interesting and differing products. I know I can go back to something I made last year and hit it pretty damn close from my notes, but homebrew can and should evolve as far as I'm concerned...... Just as sex should change and evolve between partners.
I don't envision EVER wanting to repeat the same thing over and over again..... You've lost the joy of discovery, the sense of adventure.... it's NOT for me, and never will be. I want a consistently good product, but not a consistent product.
I would love to see my local microbrewery get a Braumeister and do a couple of brews a week on it...... exploratory brews, and I suspect that many of his customers would find it interesting and exciting. It could involve the customers and and educate them. If I were in the business, I would want to operate on a scale where I could do this. Where I could run small batches alongside the 15 barrel standbys.

I NEVER stop at the LHBS without buying materials I haven't any plan for, often things I've never used, be they hops, grains,or yeasts. My rule is always buy something I've never used, and often things I really haven't studied. When I sit down to design a brew, I'm frequently juggling ingredients like these, reading about how they are used and deciding what I want or do not want in my brew...........

I guess that makes me crazy by most folks standards......... Crazy in the brew house, crazy in bed.......... Not a bad reputation really!! I was just today relating an incident that happened a number of years back where two children, probably 6 and 7 years old (brother and sister) were splashing in the mud outside the local cafe/post office/grocery store (all one business here). I encouraged them to take off their shoes..... I did too ...... and we walked through the mud puddles, and in the front door. I picked them up one at a time and held them upside down while they walked on the ceiling leaving muddy foot prints, while the proprietor expressed her outrage.... trying to keep from laughing. That was actually quite a few years ago, and it's a story that friends and neighbors still tell. Dorothy has since passed on....... a dear friend (the proprietor) and I held her hand on her death bed. In a more or less comatose state, I spoke to her about old times and incidents like this......... and while her eyes were shut and she couldn't speak, she did squeeze my hand and I new that she treasured our common memories as much as I do.


H.W.

 

[cantrell00]

So if you were making primarily ales and you wanted to have a handful of yeasts on hand, which ones would you choose?

I'd choose neutrality... S05/1056/001 , S04/007 ..

Those yeasts cover most everything that would be "thrown together" Certainly would handle APA, IPA, stouts, ambers & porters.

 

[tdbc2011]

So if you were making primarily ales and you wanted to have a handful of yeasts on hand, which ones would you choose?

I always keep a couple of packets of US-05 and Nottingham on hand.

 

[chickypad]

How often is it that you have plenty of malt, yeast, and hops, but not all the specific things for any one recipe... so you brew what you've got?

I pretty much live like that. I have a few liquid house strains that I tend to keep on hand by making an extra 100B or so cells with every starter - primarily 1010, pacman, 3787, and most recently 1217. Then I always keep packs of Notty on hand for really last minute.

 

[grizzly2378]

The local brewery (Crow Peak) recently brewed an "End of the Year Suicide Beer". Basically just took all the odd amounts of leftover grains they had, threw in some leftover hops and out came a stout (a very hoppy stout). It turned out fairly decent, actually. I'm thinking of doing the same thing with the random grains I've got laying around.

 

[bobeer]

I always brew a kitchen sink beer to clean out older ingredients. They always come out great. Beersmith helps with ibu's so im sure to make a balanced beer. Working with what you got is the essence of brewing beer. Its fun to see what you can come up with too.

 

[Oberon67]

Well, I've got enough leftovers on hand for a one-gallon batch, I think. About 3/4ths of a pound each of Caramel 20, 60, and 120, half a pound of malted rye, half a pound of milled barley adjunct, and some odds and ends of hops (Columbia and Cascade if I remember right). So tomorrow I will probably throw this together and see what happens.

 

[estricklin]

So if you were making primarily ales and you wanted to have a handful of yeasts on hand, which ones would you choose?

I love keeping several packs of dry yeast around, it lets you brew on a whim and it lasts forever refrigerated. I actually look down upon those homebrewers who only use liquid yeast, as if dry is somehow inferior. But that debate, isn't what this thread is about. 05 and 04 are great and very versatile, I always keep some harvested Irish Ale around because I've found I can use it anywhere I would have used an English Ale and that I personally like it better.

Maybe the whole challenge OF homebrewing is being able to brew with what you have on hand, experiment and learn. I too buy ingredients I don't have a plan for. Brewing 10 gallon batches makes things a bit more complicated though because it takes double the specialty grains and number of yeast cells.

 

[estricklin]

So if you were making primarily ales and you wanted to have a handful of yeasts on hand, which ones would you choose?

I love keeping several packs of dry yeast around, it lets you brew on a whim and it lasts forever refrigerated. I actually look down upon those homebrewers who only use liquid yeast, as if dry is somehow inferior. But that debate, isn't what this thread is about. 05 and 04 are great and very versatile, I always keep some harvested Irish Ale around because I've found I can use it anywhere I would have used an English Ale and that I personally like it better.

Maybe the whole challenge OF homebrewing is being able to brew with what you have on hand, experiment and learn. I too buy ingredients I don't have a plan for. Brewing 10 gallon batches makes things a bit more complicated though because it takes double the specialty grains and number of yeast cells.

 

[chickypad]

Well, I've got enough leftovers on hand for a one-gallon batch, I think. About 3/4ths of a pound each of Caramel 20, 60, and 120, half a pound of malted rye, half a pound of milled barley adjunct, and some odds and ends of hops (Columbia and Cascade if I remember right). So tomorrow I will probably throw this together and see what happens.

I'm for experimentation, and I'm big on spur of the moment recipes as I mentioned, but I don't know if I'd do that. That's like 70% crystal and only 15% base malt.

 

[Singletrack]

I make strategic substitutions based on recipe goals and ingredients on hand. If I'm going to experiment, I plan the experiment and make sure I have the ingredients I need to conduct it in a way that allows me to learn something.

Hey, somebody had to admit it.

Oh, and I only use liquid yeast, but I do not look down (or up) on those who use dry.

Edit: And brewing is not like sex. In many ways, I find that they are different.

 

[Oberon67]

I'm for experimentation, and I'm big on spur of the moment recipes as I mentioned, but I don't know if I'd do that. That's like 70% crystal and only 15% base malt.

Okay, I'm really new at this, so you'll have to explain to me why that's bad if you want me to understand.

 

[Clonefan94]

I do this all the time, to widdle down some of the extra grains I end up having lying around. Actually some of my best beers have come from this type of brewing.

 

[Psylocide]

I'm doing just this tomorrow. Leftovers.

 

[1977Brewer]

Okay, I'm really new at this, so you'll have to explain to me why that's bad if you want me to understand.

Crystal malt doesn't have the enzymes required to convert starches to sugar, only base malts do. Your ratio is too low to get a good conversion, and your wort will have a ton of unfermentables in it as a result. IIRC, you'll need at very least 50-50 base to crystal ratio.

 

[kombat]

Honestly I didn't know there was a difference between 2-row and pale ale malt. Whenever a recipe calls for pale ale malt I just use 2-row.

+1, I use the two interchangeably.

 

[Oberon67]

Crystal malt doesn't have the enzymes required to convert starches to sugar, only base malts do. Your ratio is too low to get a good conversion, and your wort will have a ton of unfermentables in it as a result. IIRC, you'll need at very least 50-50 base to crystal ratio.

Oh. Yeah, that is an issue.

Silly me, I thought all malted grain contained the necessary enzyme as a matter of course.

 

[chickypad]

Okay, I'm really new at this, so you'll have to explain to me why that's bad if you want me to understand.

Okay, sorry. It looks like you are wanting to make a small all grain batch, which means the fermentables are all coming from the grain with no extract to fall back on. This means you need a significant amount of base malt that has enzymes to convert the starches into sugars. Base malt typically makes up aroun 50-100% of the bill, in your recipe only that half lb of rye is base malt. Crystal malt, especially the higher colors and especially when mashed without a base malt, contribute a lot of unfermentable sugars which leave residual sweetness. 70% is a ridiculously high amount of crystal and I would think would make it undrinkable. I never use more than 12-13% and that is only on in a few beers like ambers - more commonly you will see total crystal in the 2-10% range if it's used.

I'd suggest getting a lb or so of 2-row or pale malt and maybe try something like this for a 1 gal amber ale (wasn't sure what your unmalted barley is there so I plugged in flaked). If you plan on ending the boil with 1.1-1.2 gal and 75% efficiency I'm getting 1.050-1.054 and SRM 14.9:

1 lbs Pale Malt (2 Row) 42.1 %
8.0 oz Barley, Flaked 21.1 %
8.0 oz Rye Malt 21.1 %
4.0 oz Caramel Malt - 60L 10.5 %
2.0 oz Caramel Malt - 120L 6-Row 5.3 %

 

[Hoppity]

I've brewed a number of "Inventory Flings" that were quite tasty. The more I learned about ingredient profiles and style guidelines, the greater my confidence grew in unscripted brewing.

 

[Oberon67]

Thanks, chickypad. I will locate some more base malt before I brew, then.

 

[Owly055]

Well, I've got enough leftovers on hand for a one-gallon batch, I think. About 3/4ths of a pound each of Caramel 20, 60, and 120, half a pound of malted rye, half a pound of milled barley adjunct, and some odds and ends of hops (Columbia and Cascade if I remember right). So tomorrow I will probably throw this together and see what happens.

Let me suggest making a honey rye using 3/4 pound of honey along with your half pound of rye, and a quarter pound of CR20 You can pick up honey at the grocery store


One gallon brew

1/2 pound Rye
3/4 pound Honey
1/4 pound CR20

4 grams Columbia 60 min
8 grams Columbia 5 min

IBU 33.25
SRM 6.3
OG 1.052
ABV 5% (approx)

 

[Oberon67]

Interesting recipe, Owly. It's as much mead as it is beer. Normally for an average-strength ale I would do the primary for two weeks, then bottle for two weeks to carb. Meads often take much longer to get good. How long do you ferment this recipe?

 

[Fatdog]

Grow your own. Any health food store can carry many different grains for brewing as well as wheat germs. A plethora of supplies can be anywhere if you know where to look and what to look for. I grow my own hops so that base is covered. If you can't travel great distances there is always mail order or online ordering. Just need to plan ahead just a bit and use your skill and knowledge. Who knows, you might just brew the next big trend in craft beers Happy brewing folks.

 

[Owly055]

Interesting recipe, Owly. It's as much mead as it is beer. Normally for an average-strength ale I would do the primary for two weeks, then bottle for two weeks to carb. Meads often take much longer to get good. How long do you ferment this recipe?

I made it up on the spot to utilize available components. You ferment it until it's done fermenting .... like any beer. A bit of aging doesn't hurt a thing. Columbia is an interesting hop.... a sister to Willamette with a nice spicy clean and pungent flavor, well worth using as a single hop. A hop with an interesting history, recently re-discovered, it was "set aside" in favor of it's sister because the Budweiser people felt it was too alpha...... The distinctive flavor of the rye should work well with this. This really is more a braggot than a mead.

This is what I would make with the ingredients available, considering that most of us have some honey in the house, or live close to a grocery store. Isn't brewing software wonderful!!

With this small amount of grain with any diastatic power, we really can't convert other things we have around the house such as rice or oatmeal. That leaves things like honey, corn syrup, sugar, etc. I was considering brewing using some excellent cider I had around, along with grains and hops. Brewer's Friend and a hydrometer or refractometer allow you a lot of room for being creative. My LHBS was out of rye this week.... I intended to buy some. But I will probably try this myself..........

H.W.

 

[Oberon67]

Well, the weekend got away from me, as they so often do... but today I went and picked up three pounds of honey, and I'll have the "Honey Rye Braggot" in the primary this time tomorrow, God willing.

 

[GHBWNY]

I've got some misc. ingredients (hops and yeast) kicking around, and I've toyed with doing the same thing.

 

[Oberon67]

I've got a jar of US-05 in the fridge... I warm it up and feed it, pour half of it into my latest batch, feed it again back up to original volume and let it bubble for a day... then back in the fridge it goes.

 

[Zepth]

I substitute ingredients and change recipes around more often than I follow them to the letter. The LHBS price on hops by the oz is insane and I can't justify buying a lb for a recipe I found that I want to brew. So I'll try and use something that's close to what it calls for on that front and hope for the best. Cascade = amarillo, hallertau = tett, fuggles = willamette, close enough for me.

Far as malt goes Pale Ale all the way. I never really was a fan of super light beers anyways. But Weyermann pale ale for everything, gets used instead of 2 row, MO, and recently a Belgian Dubbel that would have more appropriately used pils. If memory serves at the moment some munich was cut out of that recipe to lighten it a touch to compensate. Is it the best method? Probably not.

Come to think of it I have only brewed 3 recipes to the letter. I believe it was Yoopers California Common, the simple 50% pale 50% wheat 3068 hefe, and Orfy's Hobgoblin II. The latter of which turned out fantastic once and less so twice. Brewing it again this week at some point and swapping out Notty for US-05 and 1084 split from 1 boil. Because of that falling out with Notty BM Cent Blonde also got a US-05 treatment and turned out great.

I recently went and picked up Brown Malt for an upcoming recipe because there doesn't really seem to be any quick fix substitute. Aside from that I tend to work with what I've got.

 

[Owly055]

Well, the weekend got away from me, as they so often do... but today I went and picked up three pounds of honey, and I'll have the "Honey Rye Braggot" in the primary this time tomorrow, God willing.

Do you really have Columbia? or is it Columbus? I'd love to get my hands on a few ounces of Columbia... Rye is a great ingredient in beer.....in reasonable percentage. I look forward to hearing about the result of your efforts.

Consider buying some amylase. You can buy it in itty bitty bottles at your LHBS.... or do like I do and buy it from R&B Wine Supply in a pound bag. It's a great tool in a situation like this. It makes many items you have in the cupboard potential ingredients in beer in a situation like this. I've used cooked rice, rolled oats, cornmeal, some of the cracked grain cereals you cook up like oatmeal, blackstrap molasses and sorghum and even potatoes in beer........ Your kitchen cupboard is full of potential ingredients............. Amylase makes many of them useable that otherwise might not be.

The joy of brewing small is that you can do this sort of thing without having to worry about having 60 bottles of beer you really don't really care for.

H.W.

 

[Oberon67]

Upon further review of my meager stock, I discovered that my "Columbia" hops are indeed Columbus. I misremembered; my apologies.

And I just ordered a pound of amylase from Midwest. I have several loaves of day-old rye bread in the freezer just now that are awaiting its arrival, and the commencement of a brewing experiment.

 

[myerstyson]

There are websites out there where you input what alcohol you have in your bar, and it pops out a list of cocktails you can make.

Is there a website where you can input all the fermentables, hops and yeasts you have and then it'll pop out recipes, or at least, styles?

 

[masonsjax]

I have a wider selection of grain in my basement than my LHBS stocks. I have probably close to what they have when it comes to hops. They have more yeast strains than me, but many of mine are hard to get wild, brett, bacteria, and blends. With all of that, I substitute ingredients routinely and rarely make the exact same recipe twice. Variety is good.

 

[Owly055]

I have a wider selection of grain in my basement than my LHBS stocks. I have probably close to what they have when it comes to hops. They have more yeast strains than me, but many of mine are hard to get wild, brett, bacteria, and blends. With all of that, I substitute ingredients routinely and rarely make the exact same recipe twice. Variety is good.

I'm relieved to know I'm not alone ;-) ...................


H.W.

 

[Owly055]

There are websites out there where you input what alcohol you have in your bar, and it pops out a list of cocktails you can make.

Is there a website where you can input all the fermentables, hops and yeasts you have and then it'll pop out recipes, or at least, styles?

Yes there is......... It's called "homebrewtalk.com"...... Simply input ingredients and out pops recipes ;-) ............ Well it should work that way anyway. Perhaps we need a forum specifically for that............. It would be fun and challenging.


H.W.