Brewing first sour beer; Two Questions

[rjstew]

I'm planning on brewing my first Oud Bruin on Saturday. While thinking about the brewing process, two question arose.


1) I know this has been discussed in multiple threads ad nauseum, but I can't seem to find a definitive answer. I originally purchased a 6 gallon better bottle to ferment sours in. However, I already have a 6.5 gallon bucket I've been using for 3 years that I should probably rotate out since it's been scratched from cleaning. I can also get an extra 1/2 gallon of beer, which would be nice since it'll be sitting around for a year. I've ready that buckets aren't ideal for souring since they have a higher permeability than better bottles or glass, thus create more acidic/vinegar flavors.

Anyone ever soured in a bucket?

2) If I use my chest freezer as a fermentation chamber and ferment my sour in it, is there a chance that it could infect my non-sour beers that I ferment in the same chest (not at the same time, at a later date)? I know some people/breweries won't allow souring bugs anywhere near their non-sour beers.

 

[madscientist451]

I'm doing a Flanders red tonight, sort of a Oud Bruin cousin, I suppose.
Anyway doing two stage fermentation, first in bucket with ale yeast, after a few weeks rack to glass carboy and add Rosalare Blend. Will be in glass for a year or more. After about 12 months will brew the same beer, same fermentation, but will blend 6 month old with 18 month old to try to get Rodenbach flavor profle.
Souring a beer takes time, I wouldn't use a bucket for longer than 3 weeks.
What yeast/sour bugs are you going to use?
Sure there's a chance the sour bugs could cause an infection from your fermentation chamber, don't know how much of a chance.
Clean it out with bleach, then star san if you are worried about that.

 

[Natdavis777]

I have two lambics that have been in buckets going on 8months and they taste pretty solid. Probably going to bottle them in the next few months and get another 10 gal going. I have a Flanders in a glass carboy that is most likely going to get pitched. I fermented first with 05 and then transferred to the glass carboy and pitched roselaere. Smells great but has hardly any sourness to it and it think it was oxygenated a bunch seeing that I have moved twice since I brewed it.

You should be fine with buckets, but then again, these are technically my second and third sour brews so the end product could suck and I would be wrong

 

[rjstew]

Ha, these two responses are exactly what I've come across. Half say don't dare leave in a bucket for a year, only glass or Better Bottle. Others have said they've done it and the beer has been great, including the mad fermentationist who said "I have yet to try aging a sour beer in one, but my friends who have do not seem to be getting objectionably acetic results as some people suggest (due to their high oxygen permeability). It may depend on things like temperature and specific microbe varieties".

What yeast/sour bugs are you going to use?

I'm using Roselare as well. Not doing a primary though, just using the sacc in the blend do the primary. Recipe is below.

This just made me think of something else....I have a BDS sitting on a Wyeast 1214 cake. I could wash the 1214, use that in the bucket for primary fermentation. Once primary is complete I can transfer to the Better Bottle, add the Roselare which won't require the headspace, and I'll be able to fit 5.5 gallons in the Better Bottle. Would that work?

FermentablesAmountFermentableMaltsterUsePPGColor
7.0 lb2-Row (US)Any49 %Mash371 L
3.0 lbVienna (DE)2.5Any21 %Mash374 L
1.5 lbUnmalted Wheat (BE)Any10 %Boil362 L
1.5 lbCrystal 40L (CA)Any10 %Mash3440 L
1.0 lbFlaked CornAny7 %Boil400 L
4.0 ozCarafa III (DE)Any1 %Mash32535 L

HopsAmountHopTimeUseFormAA
1.1 ozPerle (US)45 minBoilPellet7.8%

YeastsNameLab/ProductAttenuation
Roselare Ale Blend Wyeast 3763 77.5%

Predicted Stats
Batch Size 5.0 gal
Boil Time
60 min
Efficiency65.0%
1.068 OG
1.015 FG
24 IBU
6.9% ABV
19 SRM
0.36 IBU/OG

Notes:
Mash at 158-159
Add Carafa III late in mash to add color but no flavor
Will add Jolly Pumpkin's La Roja Dregs after primary fermentation has completed.

 

[BrewHound]

Hmmm. I've made Flanders Red and Oud Bruin and both went into a glass carboy with a wood peg stopper so that it could continue to breathe but the O2 would be more limited than in a bucket. I suspect that there may not be a wrong way. How much O2 absorption is too much? We may have moved away from science at this point and more toward art. Even Jamil has changed opinions on this and I was using his book as a guide for both of my brews. I keep the aging temps as cool as I can (in Texas!) but if you plan to blend an older and a younger beer together at bottling then you have an opportunity right there to adjust it to your taste - so it wouldn't matter much how strong the souring became in the older brew.

All that said, it just doesn't sit right with me when I think about aging it in a bucket that long. At the very least you'd have to open it repeatedly to check pellicle development, see if it had broken and settled, etc.