Brewed first lager, questions about Diacetyl rest and cold crashing?

[starscream]

So i brewed a Vienna Lager i got from Morebeer.com (No vienna malt so its more like a pilsner lager i guess). Aside from still figuring out my water volumes, I ended up with 5 gallons of beer. Ended with a 1.046 OG. Pitched my Wyeast Bavarian Lager 2206 at 65 degrees. Then dropped the temp down to 60-55-50 over the next 3 days. Sat at 50 degrees for 9 days (total of 12 since pitched yeast) and tested the gravity at 1.016. 2 days later checked and it was 1.016 so i bring it up to 65 for 48 hours, doing the d rest. Rack it over to the keg and crashed it down to 38 degrees, my serving temp.

So did i wait to long to do the d rest? Should i of brought it up to 65 before the gravity settled or did the slow drop in temp the first 3 days help?

Also, as im using the keg as a secondary and its sitting at 38 for the next month or so, should i have hit it with some co2 and purged it so the headspace doesnt have any oxygen? its probably about 4.5 - 4.75 gallons in the keg.

Any help is appreciated.

 

[BigFloyd]

1) Always purge the keg with CO2. After racking to the keg, hit it with 25-30psi to seal the lid. Then, with the gas attached pop the pressure relief valve a few seconds and repeat 3-4 times every 15-20 minutes. After that, you can disconnect the gas and put it away to lager.

2) It's best to do the d-rest when the gravity gets to about 75-80% of the way from OG to expected FG. That way, you still have some yeast activity going on to clean up the diacetyl once it's formed via the warmer temp.

3) The drop in temp to target after pitching a lager is a practice that I dislike. So does Yooper. Pitching a lager warm to encourage yeast activity before cooling to ferment temp is a poor substitution for pitching the right amount of yeast and can lead to off-flavors (you don't want fruity esters in a lager). I prefer to pitch the right amount of yeast (1.50 lager pitch rate, up to 2.00 for higher gravity lagers) into wort chilled to 45*F and well oxygenated and then allow the beer to come up on its own to a starting temp of 48-50*F. Did you do a starter for this or just toss in a pack of 2206?

 

[starscream]

No starter. As this was my only my 3rd brew day, i have yet to get that far into doing yeast starters. But will be looking into getting a plate and doing one for my up coming brew days. So i should actually of pitched the yeast at 45 as opposed to 65 like i did? and im purging as i type this. its only been 2 days since i moved it over to the keg.

 

[BigFloyd]

No starter. As this was my only my 3rd brew day, i have yet to get that far into doing yeast starters. But will be looking into getting a plate and doing one for my up coming brew days. So i should actually of pitched the yeast at 45 as opposed to 65 like i did? and im purging as i type this. its only been 2 days since i moved it over to the keg.

Yep. You want your lagers to have a crisp and clean character. One of the techniques to get it that way is to pitch cool.

If you want to keep doing lagers (as do them well), it's time to learn about starters and pitch rates. Lagers require TWICE the number of yeast cells vs. a comparable gravity ale. Bookmark this page and use it - http://www.brewersfriend.com/yeast-pitch-rate-and-starter-calculator/

A stir plate (you can DIY one like I did) is a very valuable tool for making starters. It allows you to get the cell count you need with a much smaller size starter vs. a simple starter.

The other option for lagers is to rehydrate and pitch multiple packs of dry yeast. Lots of folks really like Saflager 34/70. I haven't tried it yet, but it's on my to-do list.

 

[starscream]

Wow, I never realized how detailed it could get. Thanks for the information. Ill be doing a yeast starter for my next brew. It might not be a lager but now i know for the next time. Still got a Belgian Dubbel in its primary also.

 

[sandyeggoxj]

Wow, I never realized how detailed it could get. Thanks for the information. Ill be doing a yeast starter for my next brew. It might not be a lager but now i know for the next time. Still got a Belgian Dubbel in its primary also.

No worries, you have to learn somehow, right?

Anyways, it seems starters are neglected by new brewers. I think it is the shear information overload at first. Once you get the process figured out then you can start bringing the quality up through improved practices and things like starters.

It sounds good that you learned something. And welcome to the obsession!

 

[BigFloyd]

Wow, I never realized how detailed it could get. Thanks for the information. Ill be doing a yeast starter for my next brew. It might not be a lager but now i know for the next time. Still got a Belgian Dubbel in its primary also.

No worries. You're on the learning curve.

Folks at work and church ask me sometimes if it's hard to brew beer. I tell them that simply brewing beer is really easy. Brewing pretty good beer takes a decent amount of effort, skill, equipment and knowledge. Brewing excellent beer is all that plus a desire to understand and use the things necessary to take it to the next level. Yeast is a really big part of that as is solid temperature management in all phases of brewing.

 

[schematix]

A good lager is very difficult to make. You will be on the right path with cold pitching (mid 40s), massive pitches (400B+ for a 5G 1.050 lager) and fermenting cold (48-49F, strain permitting).

I started making lagers simply by pitching about 50% more than what i did for ales, and pitched around 55F and fermented at 51F. All those beers were very estery and almost ale like. Ever since I started chilling as cold as I could get (46 right now), and pitching more than 2x what i'd pitch to an ale, I started getting really clean crisp beers.

Good luck and keep at it. You will be rewarded!

 

[starscream]

so its okay to pitch yeast several hours after youre done boiling? Cause with my immersion chiller i was stopping at 68 to pitch but i assume since my tap water is 52 i could keep goin til i hit that, then just put it into the keezer set to 40ish and come back in a few hrs and pitch? I duno why but i always thought that its good to pitch yeast right away and get an airlock on it so nothing can get to infecting it via airborne particles etc.

turns out i did the whole lager thing a little backwards, now i want to redeem myself and get it right the second time. and yes, its becoming an obsession.

 

[BigFloyd]

so its okay to pitch yeast several hours after youre done boiling? Cause with my immersion chiller i was stopping at 68 to pitch but i assume since my tap water is 52 i could keep goin til i hit that, then just put it into the keezer set to 40ish and come back in a few hrs and pitch? I duno why but i always thought that its good to pitch yeast right away and get an airlock on it so nothing can get to infecting it via airborne particles etc.

turns out i did the whole lager thing a little backwards, now i want to redeem myself and get it right the second time. and yes, its becoming an obsession.

For my last two lagers I was too lazy to go to the store and get bags of ice (needed to get the wort down to 44-45*F with my plate chiller) so I took the wort down as low as hose water would go. After transfer to the bucket, I put it in my fermenter fridge (which had been chilled as low as it would go) and set the controller for 45*F. About 4-5 hours later, I oxygenated the 45*F wort and pitched a healthy amount of yeast (which was also at 45*F).

I'm pretty picky about sanitization and either dunk or spray StarSan on anything that's going to get near the wort once chilling begins. I'm not worried about the little bit of extra time between boiling and pitching.

 

[starscream]

okay good to know. and you answered my next question with chilling the starter also. i assume that can just be put in the fridge right?

 

[BigFloyd]

okay good to know. and you answered my next question with chilling the starter also. i assume that can just be put in the fridge right?

Yes.

 

[jwolf965]

Thanks for the info. I read this one week too late. I pitched Wyeast 2007 at 68 and dropped the temp to 50 the next day. Fermentation didn’t really take off until the temp was dropped so I am hoping for the best.