Brew Magic to electric

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I tore the front of the pump apart and cleaned it up a bit and then tried to run it again. It works when recirculating the HLT, but it's pulling a bit of air in, but not leaking. When I switched to the HLT, I think the bit of air being drawn in was too much for it to push the water. I'm going to do some shopping for o-rings and what not, but it's good to know the heating element still works as well as the pump.

Without knowing how long this thing has been sitting, since it comes in contact with the wort, it'd probably be a good idea to replace that heating element and tubing to and from the pump (the vinyl hoses, not stainless plumbing) right?
 
loserbrewer said:
I recently converted a 15 year BrewMagic to electric. Still using propane for the boil kettle burner. I swapped the old jet burner with a Banjo burner.

5153-rims9-21.jpg
Click to expand...

I like the sight glass in the plumbing. Is that to check the clarity of the wort when recirculating? Can you explain the rest of the plumbing you have going on there as it looks like you eliminated all the original plumbing.
 
I really hated the fact that Sabco used all stainless on the visible plumbing but the heater chamber was copper. This really limited the the chemicals I could use to clean the system. I also didn't like the fact that the chamber was hard to take apart and clean. I remember some interesting stuff coming out of the chamber after along time of not using it.

The sight glass is to check clarity and also to make sure I don't have any air in the heating chamber.

While I was at it I added some inverted kegs to allow bottom drain, and also had a bunch of fun with valves, stainless tubing and other stuff! I guess the only thing left from the original system was the stand!

5170-rims3.jpg
 
Replacing the element is a good idea, or at least pulling it out to see what condition it is in. Here is what mine looked like after a year+ of sitting:

5171-element.jpg


The chamber does not allow for easy cleaning, and it tends to trap gain. It also does not drain well, at least my generation system didn't.
 
loserbrewer said:
I really hated the fact that Sabco used all stainless on the visible plumbing but the heater chamber was copper. This really limited the the chemicals I could use to clean the system. I also didn't like the fact that the chamber was hard to take apart and clean. I remember some interesting stuff coming out of the chamber after along time of not using it.

The sight glass is to check clarity and also to make sure I don't have any air in the heating chamber.

While I was at it I added some inverted kegs to allow bottom drain, and also had a bunch of fun with valves, stainless tubing and other stuff! I guess the only thing left from the original system was the stand!

5170-rims3.jpg
Click to expand...

The more I looked at your first picture, the more I realized there wasn't much original on it.

I'm going to start using the system as is if the heating element is functional and I can get the pump sealed up. If not, I at least have the kegs and stand. One of my limitations right now is I don't know how to weld or have the tools to do so.

Looks like you have the heating element on the right of the sight glass and the temp probe on the left. Using the pump to go from one side of the lower plumbing to the other. I sent you a PM to find out where you got the stainless and triclamp hardware.
 
loserbrewer said:
Replacing the element is a good idea, or at least pulling it out to see what condition it is in. Here is what mine looked like after a year+ of sitting:

5171-element.jpg


The chamber does not allow for easy cleaning, and it tends to trap gain. It also does not drain well, at least my generation system didn't.
Click to expand...

That looks disgusting. I guess that is one advantage of the HERMS system. I also like the idea of putting the element in the kettle below the false bottom to maintain temp as you can do large temp jumps with it as well as simply set it and forget it temp maintenance.

I'll make sure to take pictures of what the element looks like on mine as the guy thinks the system might have sat for a number of years.
 
Seems all connections on the outside of the kettles are compression fittings. For the sake of speed and not needing a wrench for everything, is there an easy way to convert these to some sort of QD without just using a piece of hose and clamp at the kettle and the QD fitting at the other end?

All of the existing plumbing uses these fittings - the ball valves and the drain spout from the MLT to the BK. The only connection that has me puzzled is the return from the pump/RIMS tube to the upper connection on the MLT for the circulation/whirlpool effect. Both pieces of stainless pipe are bare at the ends. I just slipped a piece of vinyl hose over each end when testing the pump, and I guess that would work, but I'm hoping to come up with something a bit more permanent.
 
jtkratzer,

I spent some time today making a full blown all electric setup for your system. Take a look at it and see if it fits your needs. I can certainly tone it down a lot (cheaper) but I'll wait to see what you think about this one. I've included the RIMS setup as well. When we come up with a plan that you want to work with, I'll give you a parts source list for it as well.

One of the things I did in this plan is to interlock the RIMS heater with its associated pump. I am preventing the RIMS element from firing unless the pump is turned on.

I made this plan based on you having a 50A - 240V GFCI protected power source. If that is not possible, I can change it to a 30A - 240V power source, No problem.

As always - click on the image for a full scale diagram that is printable on Tabloid paper (11" x 17").




Pleas let me know what you think.

P-J
 
P-J, I sent you a PM...also, what's a ball park number on $$$ for this design?

Also, this can probably be done with one pump and QDs to move the hoses, right?
 
Breaker panel has 240 coming in. The breakers in the main panel range from 15, 20, 30, 40, and 100. There is a sub panel in the garage for the addition above my garage and the hot tub with breakers at 20 and 60 respectively and a 20 GFI below the breaker for the heat in the garage. Dryer is on 30 and the electric stove is on 40.

I have a lot to learn about electric, but everyone starts somewhere.
 
Is a PID necessary to control the element in the boil kettle? Is there any other option to control the power output to the heating element, maybe something as simple as a dial? The dial would probably require wiring a board in the same manner I did to control the fan speed in my stir plate and might end up costing more than a PID...

I'm looking at over $350 for just the three additional PID, 4 SSRs, 4 contactors, and 4 heat sinks...just trying to keep this somewhat under control. :tank:
 
jtkratzer said:
Is a PID necessary to control the element in the boil kettle? Is there any other option to control the power output to the heating element, maybe something as simple as a dial? The dial would probably require wiring a board in the same manner I did to control the fan speed in my stir plate and might end up costing more than a PID...

I'm looking at over $350 for just the three additional PID, 4 SSRs, 4 contactors, and 4 heat sinks...just trying to keep this somewhat under control. :tank:
Click to expand...
I would recommend using the PID to control the boil.
Please let me come up with another plan for you that will be far less expensive to put together. Just a couple of days should get it there.

Do you intend to use the RIMS setup or will you be using a HERMS coil setup?
 
P-J said:
I would recommend using the PID to control the boil.
Please let me come up with another plan for you that will be far less expensive to put together. Just a couple of days should get it there.

Do you intend to use the RIMS setup or will you be using a HERMS coil setup?
Click to expand...

I don't know much about HERMS. Something along the lines of pumping the wort through a heat exchanger that's usually submerged in the HLT (which is set to a temp equal to or slightly above the desired mash temp) and then returned to the top of the mash.

I know how RIMS works. I'll probably RIMS since that's what's on the system now and if I need to rebuild the existing RIMS tube, I can probably do that cheaper than a HERMS setup.
 
jtkratzer said:
I don't know much about HERMS. Something along the lines of pumping the wort through a heat exchanger that's usually submerged in the HLT (which is set to a temp equal to or slightly above the desired mash temp) and then returned to the top of the mash.

I know how RIMS works. I'll probably RIMS since that's what's on the system now and if I need to rebuild the existing RIMS tube, I can probably do that cheaper than a HERMS setup.
Click to expand...
You have the concept on the HERMS set up. All you need is a 25' or 50' coil of 1/2" OD copper and a few fittings to make a really nice HERMS coil.
1/2" OD X 25FT - REF $27.64
1/2" OD X 50FT - REF $54.53

Now regarding the RIMS. Your IF is something to think about. Rebuild as in replace the element? Yes it would be cheaper depending on the actual element you choose to fire it (the choices are many and you really need to choose the correct one). Then you have to decide if you want a seperate PID to control it. Most cases and setups would require a PID just for the RIMS otherwise it can get tricky with the balance of your brew process. The other possible part of the IF is if you end up replacing the RIMS tube. With that, the cost goes through the roof.

Your setup can be done for a lot less money than what it would be with my first (more to come) diagram. You can use a single PID for a HERMS setup. It can also be done with a single PID with RIMS but you would have to overlord the system and manage it through every step. 2 PIDS with RIMS would be very doable and easier to manage.


I'd be please to help you down any path that you choose to go. No problem.!

P-J
 
P-J said:
You have the concept on the HERMS set up. All you need is a 25' or 50' coil of 1/2" OD copper and a few fittings to make a really nice HERMS coil.
1/2" OD X 25FT - REF $27.64
1/2" OD X 50FT - REF $54.53

Now regarding the RIMS. Your IF is something to think about. Rebuild as in replace the element? Yes it would be cheaper depending on the actual element you choose to fire it (the choices are many and you really need to choose the correct one). Then you have to decide if you want a seperate PID to control it. Most cases and setups would require a PID just for the RIMS otherwise it can get tricky with the balance of your brew process. The other possible part of the IF is if you end up replacing the RIMS tube. With that, the cost goes through the roof.

Your setup can be done for a lot less money than what it would be with my first (more to come) diagram. You can use a single PID for a HERMS setup. It can also be done with a single PID with RIMS but you would have to overlord the system and manage it through every step. 2 PIDS with RIMS would be very doable and easier to manage.


I'd be please to help you down any path that you choose to go. No problem.!

P-J
Click to expand...

I want it to work and I don't want it to cost a fortune. I'll shoot you a PM with my cell phone number, maybe we can talk through the pros/cons of the various options. I appreciate all your help and input.
 
Guys,
The thought process going on in this thread is something I worked through during my build. I read through hundreds of posts, a lot of which were dead ends, but found the info I needed eventually. Even though my system is done, for now, I enjoy following these inquisitive threads to see how others solve the same problems I encounter. I know it's much easier to talk in person, but I'd love to see you guys repeat those conversations here as I'm sure TONS of folks will gleen something from them. Please keep us updated on how you approachand tackle these problems!
 
I've been thinking about how to make this work with only 2 PIDs. Is it using three heating elements (one in each vessel) and four probes (one in each vessel and the last at the exit of HERMS coil)?

The process would go something like this -heat water in HLT to a few degrees above mash temp and heat strike water in BK to temp. Pump water from BK and dough in the MLT. Switch probes/power on the PIDs to the MLT and HERMS coil (temp) and HLT (power). Start pump to recirculate. HERMS coil probe controls the element in the HLT. We don't care what the water temp in the HLT is right now, as long as the wort exiting the coil is the right temp for the mash. For stepping up the temp in the mash, set those increases on the MLT PID.

Near the end of the mash, adjust the HLT water temp to sparge temp.

Connect BK probe/power to MLT PID, mash out, sparge, boil ad usual.

Do I have the process down for HERMS? If so, is there a way to do the power/probe selection to the two PIDs with switches/knobs rather than physically unplugging and reconnecting? Perhaps one PID controls the probes/power for the MLT and BK and the other handles power for the HLT and receives input from the probes at the HERMS coil and HLT water.
 
My BIL's buddy is a welder and is going to hook me up with that work since I'm tool/skill-less when it comes to welding.

I need to get a hole drilled in each keggle for the heating element, and a hole for the temp probe in the HLT and BK. If I go the HERMS route and eliminate the RIMS tube, I'll need two more holes and threaded fittings in the HLT for the copper coil. I'll need to figure out the temp probe for the HERMS return, something in line right at the exit of the coil. Anything else?
 
Ordered o-rings to replace them all on the 14 kegs I picked up over the last few days.

Starting to shop for the fittings, couplings, etc for the planned holes to be drilled.
 
Ok: Bases on a really nice phone conversation, I've revamped the brewery plan.
(Hey, It's a work in progress with a great system as the planned outcome.)

The plan now is to eliminate the RIMS setup and then utilize a HERMS setup.

As always - click on the image for a full scale diagram that is printable on Tabloid paper (11" x 17").

 
jtkratzer said:
Ordered o-rings to replace them all on the 14 kegs I picked up over the last few days.

Starting to shop for the fittings, couplings, etc for the planned holes to be drilled.
Click to expand...

Justin,

Lets talk out the fittings, couplings & holes to be drilled before you run down that path.

Edit: A parts list will follow as soon as we settle on the overall plan. No?

Paul
P-J
 
P-J said:
Ok: Bases on a really nice phone conversation, I've revamped the brewery plan.
(Hey, It's a work in progress with a great system as the planned outcome.)

The plan now is to eliminate the RIMS setup and then utilize a HERMS setup.

As always - click on the image for a full scale diagram that is printable on Tabloid paper (11" x 17").

http://www.pjmuth.org/beerstuff/images/Auberin-wiring1-a11a-RM-SYL-2352-5500w.jpg
Click to expand...

P-J, Both designs have not had an element in the MLT. Is the HERMS coil sufficient for increasing the mash temp in a reasonable amount of time for step mashing or any other "large" jump in temps?
 
Picked up 9 ball locks tonight...the 5 kegs I got over the weekend that were nasty are cleaning up nicely with an OxyClean soak.

The three oddball pin locks are going to my future brother in law, they're the only thing that fits in his not-quite-mini-college-fridge. Needless to say, he's pumped.

Side note - my wife was in Dubai recently for work and rode a camel on a touristy trip. First thing I thought of was this:

Don't hate, my daughter (18 months), likes the Black Eyed Peas beats.

P-J has been awesome helping me avoid some pitfalls and figure out the entire process.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
P-J said:
Justin,

Lets talk out the fittings, couplings & holes to be drilled before you run down that path.

Edit: A parts list will follow as soon as we settle on the overall plan. No?

Paul
P-J
Click to expand...

Sounds good. What time is good to talk tomorrow? During the day is fine or I should be home from work between 5-6 and can get a tape measure on the kegs with get some marks on them.



Is this the infamous Greenlee step bit I need to go out to 1" holes for the heating elements?
http://www.lowes.com/pd_158038-7206...&currentURL=/pl__0__s?Ntt=step+bit&facetInfo=
 
Talked to P-J on Thursday and got some things figured out. Copper for the HERMS coil, stir motor, QDs, and heat elements ordered.

Anyone have contact info for Brewer's Hardware or are they a member here?
 
pickles said:
Derrin (owner of Brewers Hardware) is a member here.
Click to expand...

Thanks. I sent him a PM. the website just has a contact form, not an email address or phone number.

P-J, how's the parts list coming for the electric side of the house?
 
Why are you contacting him? You could just buy the item, its in stock according to the website.
 
Oh, no need to get snappy. I thought maybe we could help with your questions. He's the only one I know of selling that item or anything like it. I searched a bunch before I made mine, he wasn't selling them then and neither was any other source I looked at.
 
pickles said:
Oh, no need to get snappy. I thought maybe we could help with your questions. He's the only one I know of selling that item or anything like it. I searched a bunch before I made mine, he wasn't selling them then and neither was any other source I looked at.
Click to expand...

Sorry, didn't meant to come across that way...it's just a bit frustrating when you're trying to give someone a decent chunk of change and you don't hear from them.
 
No problem. I've bought plenty from him and he's been really helpful. I know others have had custom stuff made and they've said he was awesome to work with. He might have something personal tying him up. It'll be worth it for you to give him a chance to respond. Plus you'll be really hard pressed to find some thing comparable. Another option would be to contact a old HBT member named Swagman. I dont believe he posts here anymore due vendor issues. He does custom stainless work and i know hes made one of those before. I think you can find him on the the Green Board or the Brewing Network forum.
 
I'm not upset, just wanted to get the welding and fittings done and it's not going to make my timeline now. My welder is going to be gone for a month starting next week. I was hoping to order last week and have everything by now. Oh well.

Swagman doesn't accept PMs on HBT and I'm not in those other forums.
 
Swapped some emails today with Derrin and got my order placed. I'm picking up the last few items tonight at Home Depot.

I need to find an enclosure for the controller build.
 
Went through all the order confirmation emails and receipts and I believe I have everything other than the enclosure case/box and the extra wiring to connect all the components in the box. This added up in a hurry.

I'm hoping everything is delivered by the middle of next week and I can get stuff dropped off for the welder whenever he's available and I can work on the control panel.

Any suggestions on where to buy an enclosure/panel?
 
PM a member here named CodeRage, he had recently posted on the BrewTroller forum quite a few enclosures, mostly ss, that his company was getting rid of for pennies on the dollar compared to their retail price. They may have some left.
 
I sent him a PM and P-J sent me a link to the ad on another forum for the same enclosures. Thank you both.

I looked over my parts list and the control box at theelectricbrewery.com and came up with this for what I currently have in parts and I am thinking about adding a third PID to monitor the mash temp and wire it to an alarm if the temp gets out of control for some reason. I was thinking I could set the alarm function on the BK PID as well to let me know when I've reach my strike temperature.

If I add another PID and alarm, I could do something like this with the control box.

The red, three-position switch in the middle is going to be cannibalized from the existing control box to give power to the PIDs and the far right position will also power the stir motor.

Or I could do without the PID for the mash since I have a thermometer in the cross fitting where the wort is pulled from the MLT on its way to the HERMS coil. I like the alarm idea if it's loud enough for mr to hear it in the house for bring water up to strike temp.

Any issues trying cram everything into an enclosure this way?

image-1267417583.jpg


image-2665477008.jpg
 

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