Breakers in control panel ?

[lehr]

I see the electric brewery guy does not use the little breakers in his control panel but others do, what are the pros and cons of this arrangement ?

Thanks,
Pat

 

[Ozarks Mountain Brewery]

I like the breakers just for safety, I have a 120 breaker and a 240 breaker, 1 leg of the 240 goes to the 120 hot side and that runs all 120 so if the pump or a switch or light shorts out that breaker blows and trust me it has also if a relay goes out from getting too hot it just blows that breaker not the whole box

 

[ajdelange]

As a general rule breakers are for protection of whatever is immediately down stream of them. Thus the breakers in a panel are for protection of the wiring between the panel and any place where a load can be connected. A 15 amp circuit may be connected to, for example, 5 outlets. If you plug a 4 amp load into each outlet you will draw 20 amps through the wiring from the breaker which exceeds its capacity and the breaker trips protecting the wiring. Note that no protection is offered to any of the 4 amp loads. If only one is plugged in and it draws 8 amps that's well below 15 amps and the panel breaker will not trip. If you wanted to protect each of the loads then a 4 amp breaker at each load would be required. That's what breakers in a piece of equipment are for. To protect the parts of the equipment connected to the individual breakers.

 

[atoughram]

I've got them in mine too - 25amp breakers on the elements so I dont have to run monster wire to them.

 

[lehr]

The water man speaks, my current panel has no breakers,it runs the pump,rims tube and pid. I am buliding a new panel box and conveting to all electric with 220v elements, I will put the breakers in there but wanted some input before I get started.
Thanks,
Pat

 

[jeffmeh]

It's really personal preference, as long as you have the breakers and fuses necessary to protect the wiring. If you have a 50a or 60a breaker in the main panel, and you want to bring that into your control panel, breakers are a good idea to step down to smaller wiring in the control panel. Conversely, if you are only bring 30a into the control panel, you don't really need another breaker to step down. You still may want to put another breaker (or fuse) in to step down to smaller wiring for your lower draw 120v devices. Kal uses an inline 7a fuse for this, while others use even smaller fuses for the individual components (personally, I think that is overkill). Keep it safe and it is really up to you.

 

[kal]

I think there's a lot of confusion as to how breakers can protect devices when used inside a control panel.

I see people sometimes use individual breakers or fuses for each device. Not only is that overkill, but in most cases doesn't protect anything more than having a single fuse.

Take my control panel for example. It has 3 PIDs, a timer, and buzzer, a bunch of lights, and so forth. These are all powered by a 120V line protected by a 7A fuse. The point was to protect the 14 ga wiring which is limited to 15A. (A 15A fuse would have worked too).

I need to protect this 14 ga wire separately since the panel is a 30A panel. The 30A (10 ga) wire is protected by the circuit breaker powering the electrical socket on the wall into which I plug my control panel.

Now what if I put fuses or breakers on all of the individual devices. Would that protect them individually? Nope. Take a PID for example. Most consume very little power, and draw less than 0.1 amps when on. I could put individual 0.2 or 0.3 amp fuses on each of your PIDs but current is pulled, not pushed. The only way the PID is going to be pulling more than the normal 0.1 amps is if something breaks inside the PID and it's defective, causing a short. If a short happens, the PID will all of a sudden try and pull infinite current and what I'm concerned with now is pull more than the rated 15A of current through my 14 ga wire *before* my upstream 30A breaker pops. One PID breaking like this won't "blow the whole box". Nothing else is affected since current is pulled, not pushed.

If that 7A breaker pops, it's because something is defective in the panel and needs replacing anyway. So if all of the individual items were fused, I would have to replace the defective PID, and also have the replace the single fuse that popped. The only advantage to individual fuses or breakers is that it lets you see which item caused the problem.

I think a lot of the confusion stems around what a fuse protects: It doesn't protect standalone devices. It protects wiring.*

*The exception is if the device itself can power something. For example, on my 50A design which has multiple heating elements running at once, I protect the 10ga (30a) wiring with 30A fuses to stop too much power being drawn in case someone plugs in a heating element that will draw more than 30A.

Kal

 

[pizza_man]

I see the electric brewery guy does not use the little breakers in his control panel but others do, what are the pros and cons of this arrangement ?

Thanks,
Pat

There are no separate breakers for your kitchen stove eyes......

 

[lehr]

Thanks for the input Kal !

Pizza man...what ?

Pat

 

[augiedoggy]

It gets to a point where its just for bling and impractical.... fuses dont look as sophisticated so arent used often here it seems... then again you have a lot of people going overkill on everything it seems.. We all like bling and bragging rights. and some try to top others...
As far as element wiring, even though the soow 12/3 wire is rated at 25amps up to 600v and the cable run is usually pretty short, many people suggest to others they need 10/3 so the more expensive impractical 10/3 has become the size of choice for both 19 amp 4500w elements and 23amp max 5500w elements.... even though it barely fits through the connector collars and it not very flexible Why? IMO many of us are just copying what we see out of fear and ignorance without asking the right questions why and if its really needed. I questioned this recently in another thread were someone complained that the wire barely fit through bobby m's element enclosures and what did I get in response? "Well thats what they recommend on the electric brewery website"...

I did have the 1/2a fuse protect my pids when I had rewired and alarm switch incorrectly.

 

[lehr]

Thanks Augie for the words of wisdom, bling is over rated, form over function
like my junk

 

[augiedoggy]

Thanks Augie for the words of wisdom, bling is over rated, form over function
like my junk

I didnt say I didnt like the bling... I'm just as guilty lately ... But extra over the top engineering inside the control panel still kind of eludes me..I get it that it can be fun to build like a radioshack project but It seems like some just want to make things as complicated and full of extra components as they possibly can.
bling has nothing to do with function is what I was implying... You can put a redundant breaker on the end of every wire in that panel and still make mediocre beer that wont impress anyone..

see my post gave you an excuse to show of your shiny bling..

 

[lehr]

Augie,
I love the to look at those finely wired panels but thats not my strong suit, less is definitely more with my wiring skill set.
Thanks for the input
Pat.

 

[Bobby_M]

It gets to a point where its just for bling and impractical.... fuses dont look as sophisticated so arent used often here it seems... then again you have a lot of people going overkill on everything it seems.. We all like bling and bragging rights. and some try to top others...
As far as element wiring, even though the soow 12/3 wire is rated at 25amps up to 600v and the cable run is usually pretty short, many people suggest to others they need 10/3 so the more expensive impractical 10/3 has become the size of choice for both 19 amp 4500w elements and 23amp max 5500w elements.... even though it barely fits through the connector collars and it not very flexible Why? IMO many of us are just copying what we see out of fear and ignorance without asking the right questions why and if its really needed. I questioned this recently in another thread were someone complained that the wire barely fit through bobby m's element enclosures and what did I get in response? "Well thats what they recommend on the electric brewery website"...

I did have the 1/2a fuse protect my pids when I had rewired and alarm switch incorrectly.

While 12/3 can handle 25a for very short runs, the real issue is that no one has a breaker rated for 25a. They go to 30amps. Now you have a wire that can overheat at 30 amps and a breaker that will let it happen. Will it ever happen? Probably not.

By the way, there's no reason to use SOOW (600v) cords when SJOOW (300v) is adequate and much easier to handle.

 

[augiedoggy]

I don't have each kettle on its own breaker so its a non issue for me. I have my whole panel on a 30 amp breaker with GFCI...

 

[Bobby_M]

I'm sorry, I don't think the point was clear. If you have any wiring that is only capable of 25 amps protected by an upstream 30amp breaker, you have a potential overheat situation if something goes wrong. For sure, it would have to be a rare situation where a malfunctioning element pulls 29 amps, but no more than that. Given the short runs we're talking about, is it really worth saving 60 cents a foot? Granted, 12/3 SJ is a bit easier to handle than 10/3 so I can see the attraction.

 

[Ozarks Mountain Brewery]

one thing I did wrong the first time was buy cheap aluminum Spade Terminal Vinyl Connector, they heated up and burnt plus rusted the relay in a couple of places so make sure you buy good quality Terminals, nothing worse than having to re buy something twice

 

[augiedoggy]

I'm sorry, I don't think the point was clear. If you have any wiring that is only capable of 25 amps protected by an upstream 30amp breaker, you have a potential overheat situation if something goes wrong. For sure, it would have to be a rare situation where a malfunctioning element pulls 29 amps, but no more than that. Given the short runs we're talking about, is it really worth saving 60 cents a foot? Granted, 12/3 SJ is a bit easier to handle than 10/3 so I can see the attraction.

Its not about saving 60cents a foot for me.... the 12/3 is speced for loads up to 25amps I also used 12 gauge for the wiring between the relays and the ssrs... its not overkill or under rated.... it fits the bill fine for a 19 amp load. And if the element shorts and fails somehow the gfci should trip.... if it doesn't it wouldn't be the 12/3 cable I would honestly worry about somehow burning up and causing a fire or danger... It would take quite a while for a load under 30a to heat up and damage the 12/3 if it even did at all. Honestly the breaker should still trip if there was a short and the element would / kettle would still be the danger if it didnt.

 

[Fatman_Brew]

IMO many of us are just copying what we see out of fear and ignorance without asking the right questions why and if its really needed. I questioned this recently in another thread were someone complained that the wire barely fit through bobby m's element enclosures and what did I get in response? "Well thats what they recommend on the electric brewery website"...

It is not fear, nor ignorance. It is N.E.C code and it would be unwise for any business to suggest wiring something that violates code. Lawsuits and such.

 

[augiedoggy]

It is not fear, nor ignorance. It is N.E.C code and it would be unwise for any business to suggest wiring something that violates code. Lawsuits and such.

OK so how does it violate code?
Ok please explain then how the cable is rated at 25a up to 600v but cant be used with a 240v/ 23A load and meet code on a non continuous load such as this application where it will be on for maybe 40 minutes at the most at 100%? these are cables with a plug on the end not hardwired, I am pretty sure it meets code ... especially for those using 4500w elements that draw 19A max...
Lets not forget that these heating elements themselves werent designed for and dont meet codes for this type of application!

If not I would truly like a real explanation as to why and proof and not the same old continuous load 80% load scenario meant for hardwired appliances of equipment that are designed to run at full draw for over 3 hrs....or the bigger is always safer explanation... while that might have some truth its just as true to tell everyone to rip out the wiring in their house because the contractors go with the minimum rated wire speced to be safe when the correct loads are placed on the wiring. If someone wants to go overboard fine.... just because you do it, doesn't mean everyone else is a fool for using the minimum correctly speced cable for the job. just as driving 50mph on a road with a posted speed of 55mph is "statistically safer" you dont see the police writing speeding tickets for those driving 53mph on that same road? why post a speed or rate a wire at X if it is unsafe for use at X!

And yes these devices should be attended while in use... for some freak occurrence where the pid somehow fails and doesn't cut and limit element power once the boil is reached... As always common sense should be exercised here just as were are building a non UL listed device with components that are not necessarily "approved" for the applications we are using them for.

In most of these applications the control panel is near the elements and the cables are like 6ft long and perfectly capable of handling a 5500w
element.

Besides your forgetting the fact that you can suggest whatever you want here and the bottom line is if someone builds an electric brew rig they should have it inspected by a licensed electrician or THEY are ultimately to blame for using an "unapproved homemade device" regardless...
Since we are on our soapbox,
All those homemade toolbox enclosures and the like could be built of 16guage thick titanium and if the right agencies weren't paid to approve them they are just as unsafe in the eyes of the law (and insurance company )
Also, as an example, we have people here using and selling coolers for mashtuns (technically unapproved as foodsafe at mash temps ) arent those companies selling them as mash tuns breaking the law?? can they be sued if someone developes a health issue??

 

[Fatman_Brew]

OK so how does it violate code?

My response was a statement on why businesses specify size X,Y or Z conductors based on the overprotection amp ratings of the circuit. Conductors need to be sized to overcurrent protection or better. If not, it is a code violation. Pretty simple really. What business entity would do otherwise? Who would want the liability?

The rest of your post appears to be a rant, so I'll leave it at that and agree with your statement about having work inspected.

 

[augiedoggy]

My response was a statement on why businesses specify size X,Y or Z conductors based on the overprotection amp ratings of the circuit. Conductors need to be sized to overcurrent protection or better. If not, it is a code violation. Pretty simple really. What business entity would do otherwise? Who would want the liability?

The rest of your post appears to be a rant, so I'll leave it at that and agree with your statement about having work inspected.

Yes I did go off on a rant, lets reiterate.

I had made a statement saying the 12g soow was actually rated for 25a and fine to use for a 4500w or 5500w element cord in a home brewing rig application and that too many people seem to be misinformed into thinking they NEED larger 10g cord even though it is actually larger then required or there setup would not be safe. the same goes for needing all those breaker vs a fuse if the device is not already internally fused thats being powered in the panel. You quoted me and made a statement that does more to confuse and scare people and actually proves the point I was trying to make about people commenting without even paying attention to what they are commenting against (or for) just because its the status quo in the conversation.

If you had read what I actually said to would have seen that I was not implying that anyone should break code but rather just trying to bring clarification to what does and doesnt actually meet it. If you are commenting about all the breakers inside the panel being needed for every circuit to meet code I would also like some clarification about this as well? because this also confuses people who may be more interested in building a rig to make beer than impress others.

I quess I'm confused about what in my original statement, I said that you feel I needed to be corrected on? If a business states X or Y is needed then they should explain why they feel its needed even if code says otherwise right? thats the point of my rant.
A good example is that kal doesnt believe all the extra redundant breakers inside the panel are needed yet others do... and some of them IMPLY they are needed to meet codes? I am just trying to sort fact from opinion here...

 

[Fatman_Brew]

As far as element wiring, even though the soow 12/3 wire is rated at 25amps up to 600v and the cable run is usually pretty short, many people suggest to others they need 10/3 so the more expensive impractical 10/3 has become the size of choice for both 19 amp 4500w elements and 23amp max 5500w elements.... even though it barely fits through the connector collars and it not very flexible Why? IMO many of us are just copying what we see out of fear and ignorance without asking the right questions why and if its really needed. I questioned this recently in another thread were someone complained that the wire barely fit through bobby m's element enclosures and what did I get in response? "Well thats what they recommend on the electric brewery website"...

The bolded remarks are the reason for my post. The recommended wire sizes are what is based on code for 30amp circuits. Nothing to do with fear or ignorance, as you were implying, then alluding to comments based on recommendations from a commercial website.
That is the reason for my post, that commercial entities have a valid reason to recommend the minimal requirements to meet NEC code.
I didn't want a reader to presume commercial recommendations were all about bling or not valid.

 

[augiedoggy]

The bolded remarks are the reason for my post. The recommended wire sizes are what is based on code for 30amp circuits. Nothing to do with fear or ignorance, as you were implying, then alluding to comments based on recommendations from a commercial website.
That is the reason for my post, that commercial entities have a valid reason to recommend the minimal requirements to meet NEC code.
I didn't want a reader to presume commercial recommendations were all about bling or not valid.

But we are not talking about a 30 amp circuit? We are talking about either 19A or 23A max circuits depending on the wattage of the heating element used being powered off a cord rated for 25a.
I use 10g SO for the main power to my panel but certainly not inside for all my smaller internal components that draw much less off that main 30a circuit. my pids draw less than 1/2 amp so I use smaller wire to power them as do most if not all who have built these... I use a fuse on this circuit but not everyone does.
The only argument I can see here is for fuse/breaker protection between the 30a buss bar and the elements and that would only serve a purpose if the failure didnt cause a short and didnt cause the draw to be over 30a which would prevent the main 30a breaker of the GFCI protection from kicking in.... This is HIGHLY unlikely to happen.

Having an expensive hinged steel box/ breakers for every circuit inside that box and heavier wire than speced for the loads going through them are all expensive and arguable over the top ways of doing things or in the least the most than necessary for the application. a .50cent 20a fuse will protect just as well as a $12 or $25 20A breaker or the like and with all the precautions already taken a plastic electrical box such as high gravity uses and home depot sells will work just fine as well... if you have the extra money thats fine but many read stuff that implies and they believe they truly need to spend all this extra money "to meet codes"

Its not unlike the brass/ copper vs stainless argument... Stainless is superior in that it doesnt discolor but modern brass plumbing fittings are lead free and safe.. just ugly... Aluminum depending on which thread you read here is perfectly safe or its downright dangerous and causes Alzheimers disease... Whos stating facts and whos stating misinformation or at the least inconclusive possibilities?
I went to an allgrain brewing class with my brotherinlaw a month ago to introduce him to it and the local national beer judge who was teaching the class stated very matter of factly that aluminum was dangerous to use in beer and that stainless had to be used. This is completely unproven yet because he is highly respected his words werent questioned... I prefer to state all the information and whether its fact or opinion and rightfully so.

 

[Bobby_M]

First let's be very clear that since these panels are wired as temporary use appliances via SJ or SO cord, "code" doesn't apply per say. The electric brewery is about as close to true industrial controls as any homebrewery panel is going to be and it's clear that there was a certain standard it was designed to. Yes, perhaps it's a bit overkill in both build and function, but since when is that odd in these circles?

Again, I'll reiterate my point that the reason 10 gauge is appropriate if you're following electrical best practices is due to the size of the breaker directly upstream. Whether you accept that ultimate failure is probable or not is a different topic perhaps. If you contend that 12 gauge is fine because the load is only pulling 19 amps, the next breaker upstream should be 20amp. Sure, 20a fuses are fine also. The point is better demonstrated when you consider a 50 amp panel. In that case, the control panel is also acting more like a sub-panel. If you created a panel like that, and had 6/3 running to the panel, it would be best to split it with a pair of 25amp breakers if you wanted to use 12/3 to each element. It's more dangerous to just use a tap because the upstream breaker is 50amp.

The code police are not going to knock on the door. Like many things in life, there's an adequate way of doing things and then a slightly overbuilt way. People are free to make their own choices but it's always better to er on the safer side when giving someone advice when taking shortcuts can cause fires. By the way, if an element starts pulling more current, there's no reason why GFCI would get involved as there would be no current mismatch between L1 and L2.

 

[Fatman_Brew]

You seem to want to have an argument with me based on nothing I have said based on my post my defending commercial recommendations. You defend yourself with arguments I am not making.

On the other hand, when you have a circuit protected by a 30 amp breaker, that is a 30 amp circuit. Period. I don't care how you want to justify not protecting conductors properly. Yes, you can use 12 gage wire. Do not suggest it is proper to protect it with 30 amp overcurrent protection. It is amazing that you keep on suggesting price isn't a factor, yet you keep bringing it up. Use the damn .50 cent 20 amp fuse and all is good. That was the entire point. You were suggesting it is ok to not protect the wiring correctly because of your misunderstanding of how to size conductors vs overprotection.

 

[augiedoggy]

You seem to want to have an argument with me based on nothing I have said based on my post my defending commercial recommendations. You defend yourself with arguments I am not making.

On the other hand, when you have a circuit protected by a 30 amp breaker, that is a 30 amp circuit. Period. I don't care how you want to justify not protecting conductors properly. Yes, you can use 12 gage wire. Do not suggest it is proper to protect it with 30 amp overcurrent protection. It is amazing that you keep on suggesting price isn't a factor, yet you keep bringing it up. Use the damn .50 cent 20 amp fuse and all is good. That was the entire point. You were suggesting it is ok to not protect the wiring correctly because of your misunderstanding of how to size conductors vs overprotection.

You made the argument against me?

So by that you imply that all the little wires going to my alarms and switches and pids should also be 10G ?? the elements dont draw more than 23amps at full power just as the pids dont draw more than 1/2A....
I dont believe my toaster or soldering gun has a fuse and they draw about 9 amps yet the cord that powers them is thinner and not rated for the full 20A my kitchen outlet is... same as a lamp or other household appliance..
My elements that plug into my control panel work the same way.


I never said its fine not to use fuses im my original comments you were quoting me on. I only implied that $75 in Din breakers are unnecessary when you can acomplish the same protection for under $5.. and that a 25a cable can power a 23a or less load safely . and that is the "bling" that some insist is necessary.

 

[augiedoggy]

You were suggesting it is ok to not protect the wiring correctly because of your misunderstanding of how to size conductors vs overprotection.

Please by all means enlighten me because this is the exact type of comments im talking about?? They are made to imply things with no explanation!
How does a 19A or 23a 240v load on a cable rated for 25a at 600v not sized correctly for this application??

 

[augiedoggy]

First let's be very clear that since these panels are wired as temporary use appliances via SJ or SO cord, "code" doesn't apply per say. The electric brewery is about as close to true industrial controls as any homebrewery panel is going to be and it's clear that there was a certain standard it was designed to. Yes, perhaps it's a bit overkill in both build and function, but since when is that odd in these circles?

Again, I'll reiterate my point that the reason 10 gauge is appropriate if you're following electrical best practices is due to the size of the breaker directly upstream. Whether you accept that ultimate failure is probable or not is a different topic perhaps. If you contend that 12 gauge is fine because the load is only pulling 19 amps, the next breaker upstream should be 20amp. Sure, 20a fuses are fine also. The point is better demonstrated when you consider a 50 amp panel. In that case, the control panel is also acting more like a sub-panel. If you created a panel like that, and had 6/3 running to the panel, it would be best to split it with a pair of 25amp breakers if you wanted to use 12/3 to each element. It's more dangerous to just use a tap because the upstream breaker is 50amp.

The code police are not going to knock on the door. Like many things in life, there's an adequate way of doing things and then a slightly overbuilt way. People are free to make their own choices but it's always better to er on the safer side when giving someone advice when taking shortcuts can cause fires. By the way, if an element starts pulling more current, there's no reason why GFCI would get involved as there would be no current mismatch between L1 and L2.

Yes but as you yourself even admitted an element that somehow failed in a way that its starts drawing more current would likely not stop at under the 30a breakers threshold ... and even so a 25A fuse with 12G soow is a safer (and more economical) choice than 10G without the fuse or additional breaker... right? a short to ground is much more likely to happen when the element fails.
25A fuseblocks and fuses are dirt cheap thanks to the car audio world. IHell I have a box of them somewhere I just might install just to use them with all this talk.

 

[Fatman_Brew]

Please by all means enlighten me because this is the exact type of comments im talking about?? They are made to imply things with no explanation!
How does a 19A or 23a 240v load on a cable rated for 25a at 600v not sized correctly for this application??

I thought I was clear that the 30amp overprotection means it is a 30amp circuit. It does not matter if a device on that circuit uses 1 amp or 30. Using your logic, you could use 22 gauge wire to a device using 3 amps and still use a 30amp breaker. Does this make sense?

I think we are done beating this dead horse.

 

[augiedoggy]

I thought I was clear that the 30amp overprotection means it is a 30amp circuit. It does not matter if a device on that circuit uses 1 amp or 30. Using your logic, you could use 22 gauge wire to a device using 3 amps and still use a 30amp breaker. Does this make sense?

I think we are done beating this dead horse.

The elements are on their own power cords one their own outlets and just plug into the the control panel ... they are not hardwired...

again this is just like a lamp with 18awg cord might plug into a 15a or 20a household circuit only protected at the main box with a 15 or 20a breaker....

Do you have every device thats plugged in to your household outlets protected with its own breaker to match its draw? how is this different??
please explain the reason behind why its fine not to there but its needed here?

Im sorry but if you pull apart a lot of control panels here you will see that each individual component is not always protected with its own breaker or even fuse. ideally it would make things even safer yes I will admit it just as if You or I put a fuse on every device in my house that doesnt have one...but you still have guys using these who dont even have them on GFCI protection... My point was that a fuses work just as well as an expensive din rail full of breakers.


I like you you turned this into being all about not having any protection for smaller circuits being powered off a larger one as opposed to my original comments actually being about fuses being more practical than breakers and 25A cable being more practical for 19 or 23A loads than 30A cable. you must have miseed were I stated I use a 1/2amp fuse for my pid power. and honestly if the element power cord wasnt already rated at close to the 30a breakers potential and I didnt already know that realistically a short 6ft section of this wire which is rated at 600v and 25a and will support more than that and a lower voltage such as 240v I might have gone through the extra wiring for that 1 in a million chance the element would somehow have some sort of failure that caused it to draw only between 25 and 30a... in 17 years of repairing equipment with heat lamps and rods I have yet to ever see something like this happen.

 

[Fatman_Brew]

Yep, you got me. Everything I said was wrong.

Cheers.

 

[stlbeer]

To the OP - seems like you've set off WW3 in the electric brewing forum. I've been active in this forum for many years and all I can say is that you've hit a nerve.

Hopefully these 2 guys, who have consumed a lot of space in your post, will agree to disagree and stop with the back and forth.

I for one would like to see more about how your build is going. I watched intently as you build your SS gas fired rig and at that time thought you should have gone electric with with. Glad to see you've seen the light!

Not all discussions are a boisterous as this one, but you sure get many points of view!

Cheers!

 

[augiedoggy]

I'm not even sure we agree on what were disagreeing about!
In any case I dropped it .. Thanks for stirring the pot.

I do stand my original point... fuses will do the same job as a breaker more economically and I believe the cord on an appliance should only have to be rated for what that appliance draws at max.

 

[lehr]

I ask for opinions and I got them, each person argues what they consider vaild a point, I just read them and gather what knowledge I can.

stlbeer, I will put together a build update when I get all my part.

Thanks all,
Pat