Bottling???

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Mr Nick

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What would happen if one were to leave the beer in a glass carboy with a siphon that had a valve on the end of it?

When one wanted a beer one could just open the valve fill their glass and shut it off.....

If this question sounds Stupid....I am yet to Brew my first batch.
 
It'd be left sitting on the trub so wouldn't have a desirable flavour and it wouldn't be conditioned so it'd be flat and unclear and probably give you an upset stomach at some point. Not desirable traits in beer
 
Thanks for the feedback.

It would not be left sitting on the trub. It would be racked and conditioned in the secondary, It could be further conditioned just like it would be in bottles by transferring it to another carboy as opposed to racking it into bottles.

However when I awoke this morning the first thought that came to my mind was that the air that would enter the carboy as the beer was siphoned out would indeed cause the beer to be flat. Not really a good plan.

I was attempting to avoid the need for purchasing kegs, but it appears that will be a lost cause.:tank:
 
No, it would never condition.

For conditioning you would have to add corn sugar/DME. Since it would have to be completely and securely sealed off to create natural carbonation...the bottle would burst first.

It's not made to withstand the same pressures like bottles are. ;)
 
Thanks...but I don't get it???

My 5 gallon carboys are glass bottles.
They are not made to withstand the same pressures like bottles are:confused:

I read some where that one of the main reasons for the secondary fermentation is to condition the beer.

Seeing as the sugars won from the malt are metabolized into alcohol and carbon dioxide. I am unable to understand how keeping carbon dioxide in the beer would aid in conditioning. Especially when that is the ingredient that would cause a bottle to explode.
 
by conditioning he means carbonating. your carboy has an airlock, so it allows pressure and co2 to leave the carboy. your bottles are capped, so the co2 gets absorbed into the liquid.

the secondary is meant to clear the beer and let the yeast finish their work, it will still have no carbonation.
 
Ok I own a Sanke keg. I have managed to take off the o ring and remove the stem. My question is how do I get the o ring back on when I reassembly the keg?
 
DeathBrewer said:
by conditioning he means carbonating. your carboy has an airlock, so it allows pressure and co2 to leave the carboy. your bottles are capped, so the co2 gets absorbed into the liquid.

the secondary is meant to clear the beer and let the yeast finish their work, it will still have no carbonation.

Thanks for clarifying that for me.:)
 
I racked my Irish Red Ale to the secondary yesterday, and even thought I have a siphoning tip, a decent amound of yeast and other particulates have settled to the bottom of the seconardy. I would NOT want to drink that.

DeathBrewer is right one. Cap or keg it to keep the pressure. :D You'll thank yourself later.
 
I am thinking that I will likely rack into a second secondary glass carboy before bottling. That should help to get rid of even more sediment.
 
Mr Nick, have you considered growlers or 2 liter soda bottles used kinda like little kegs? I know that NB has a growler tap, makes for a nice couple'a beers, and the rest is still under pressure & conditioning in their own vessels. Or even a little 1.33 gallon keg system like I saw on eBay earlier (sorry no link).

I could be wrong, but it sounds like a good idea to me at the moment... :drunk:
 
Mr Nick said:
Thanks...but I don't get it???

My 5 gallon carboys are glass bottles.
They are not made to withstand the same pressures like bottles are:confused:

I read some where that one of the main reasons for the secondary fermentation is to condition the beer.

Seeing as the sugars won from the malt are metabolized into alcohol and carbon dioxide. I am unable to understand how keeping carbon dioxide in the beer would aid in conditioning. Especially when that is the ingredient that would cause a bottle to explode.

5gal glass carboys will not hold up to the pressures required to carbonate beer. 12oz beer bottles are designed for this purpose and work quite well.
There are several kinds of "conditioning" in beer. Aging and clearing are what happens in a secondary glass carboy. Carbonating is what happens in a beer bottle (for home brew). When you bottle the beer you add a small amount of sugar that the yeast in suspension converts into alcohol and CO2. The CO2 increases the pressure in the container and the liquid absorbs more CO2 instead of releasing it to the atmosphere. In a Carboy the CO2 is allowed to escape through the airlock leaving you with a flat beer.

Craig
 
Adolphus79 said:
Mr Nick, have you considered growlers or 2 liter soda bottles used kinda like little kegs? I know that NB has a growler tap, makes for a nice couple'a beers, and the rest is still under pressure & conditioning in their own vessels. Or even a little 1.33 gallon keg system like I saw on eBay earlier (sorry no link).

I could be wrong, but it sounds like a good idea to me at the moment... :drunk:

Growler caps can't, or from my experince, (and if anyone out there has done it please feel free to chime in), handle the pressure produced from naturally carbing in the bottles. Also why would you do the disservice to a good home brew by bottleing it in a 2 litter palstic soda bottles. At least go out and get the one litter plastic Mr. Beer bottles. Or get a keg and keg it or get real bottles and cap them.

Cheers

An OBTW: there are some growlers that would work, but just the ones with swing tops....and by the time that you buy enough of those you could have a couple of kegs.
 
Bottling carefully made homebrew in used pop bottles? Used plastic bottles are harder to clean and sanitize, so might contaminate your brew. They are also clear, or green, which will allow UV light to penetrate to your beer, giving it a skunky taste. And unless you drink alot, or share alot, your 2L bottle will end up flat before you finish drinking it. If you are going to all the trouble of brewing your own beer, invest in some beer bottles, either glass or plastic, but they need to be brown.
 
You could also consider the tap-a-draft system. It allows you to botlle in 6 liter plastic bottles and comes with a co2 dispensing tap.

I currently use these to bottle most of my beer. I love the convenience of being able to have two 6L bottles of beer 'on tap' in my fridge without swmbo complaining.

They do have their drawbacks though. I am having a hard time getting my carbonation right. Seems to be way too carbonated.
 
Mr Nick said:
Interesting? Could you please explain how that does a disservice?

In addition to what nurse nan said, plastic (like soda bottles) are NOT oxygen resistant, over time oxygen will seep into the plastic bottles oxygenating your beer (makes nasty flavors)... Not to mention screw on caps do not always seal completely.... If you want to use plastic bottles make the PET, or at the very least HDPE (1 or 2 on the recycle numbers)....

No scratch that, quit being lazy and just bottle them. You'll be happy with the final product and it just looks classier... And 2 liter's Chug, beer bottles are made so that when they chug they don't over do it and cause a butt load of foam.

Imagine if someone handed you a 7up bottle and said "here taste this i made it myself"... then they TRY and pour it into a glass, it chuggs and you get mostly foam... not very professional...

Now Imagine someone handing you a brown capped bottle and saying "Here taste this i made it myself".. They pour into a glass a beautiful brown liquid with a white/off white head...
 
Thank you guys for explaing that for me. I was trying to find the "dreamymover" videos, but looks like he took them down on youtube.

But to also explain why I said what I did, If you spend any amount of time making beer then you know the dedication and passion that goes into creating a tasty beverage, and you want to do everything you can to protect it from light & O2 damage so, Brown bottles or kegs are best for that.

Cheers
 
DeadYetiBrew said:
No scratch that, quit being lazy and just bottle them. You'll be happy with the final product and it just looks classier... And 2 liter's Chug, beer bottles are made so that when they chug they don't over do it and cause a butt load of foam.

Imagine if someone handed you a 7up bottle and said "here taste this i made it myself"... then they TRY and pour it into a glass, it chuggs and you get mostly foam... not very professional...

Well thanks for all of your input...

I have a tall cocktail mixing glass just large enough that when I open a can of commercial beer, and pour it into the glass it is very nearly all foam. The foam does not last very long. In fact I find that with a bit of sugar placed in the bottom of the glass, it is a refreshing drink.

Not being one to care so much about being classy as opposed to quality, and being able to accomplish that with the least amount of effort. This Dude will be using 2 liter plastic pop bottles. I may at some time keg my beer but it is very unlikely that I will have a bunch of bottles around that I would have to deal with.

But I will keep my eye out for the things you all have mentioned, and if I experience something I am not pleased with I will consider taking your advice.
 
I for one could not see myself drinking beer out of a plastic bottle (and I' m from Texas, LOL) Especially if I made it. If I go through all that work I want the best possible taste. What is this about sugar in beer? I have seen salt but never sugar.
Must be a Canadian thing.:cross:
 
Hell Brew said:
I for one could not see myself drinking beer out of a plastic bottle (and I' m from Texas, LOL) Especially if I made it. If I go through all that work I want the best possible taste. What is this about sugar in beer? I have seen salt but never sugar.
Must be a Canadian thing.:cross:

Well there are number of ways that I can respond to this....First it has a lot to do with being able to step out of the box that some would like to place you in, which I have seen explained as the herd mentality.

Said another way.....I don't believe I have been placed on this planet to preform as others would like to prescribe. But that should not stop you from trying.

You have never heard of putting sugar in beer??? Beer is all about sugar.
 
yes. beer is all about sugar... sugar turned into alcohol via fermentation. I have on one occasion put sugar into finished beer just to see what would happen, and it foams like a rabid dog. If I were you I would bottle into large growlers, you can use the swingtop arm type, just make sure to check the rubber seals for dry rotting.
Be good to the beer you worked so hard to make and bottle it properly.
 
If you have ever wondered why most beer bottles are amber or green, the answer is simple. The full spectrum of daylight can have undesirable effects on a beer over a period of time. The ultraviolet portion of the spectrum is especially harmful; promoting chemical reactions that produce "off flavors" that will take the edge off the freshness of a beer. Dark glass greatly inhibits this photochemical effect, whereas clear glass leaves the beer within vulnerable to being "light struck." The industry standard is for green or amber glass, but for some unfathomable reason a number of British breweries stick resolutely to their traditional practice of using clear glass bottles, with often undesirable consequences when such beers are left on a retailer’s shelf for any length of time.

Source = http://www.tastings.com/beer/perishable.html

According to this green is OK. It is beyond me to understand how clear bottles stored in a closet that has no windows or a Fridge that has no light can harm the beer.

Please give me a break? The beer sits in a clear glass or plastic carboy for a week or so ( apparently with no ill effects). Then some will try and tell you that clear bottles are no good.:confused:
 
galensmitty said:
I have on one occasion put sugar into finished beer just to see what would happen, and it foams like a rabid dog.

The same thing will happen with a bottle of soda pop. If one places the sugar in the bottle before the beer you will not get that kind of a reaction.
 
If you open a 2 liter bottle of beer and don't drink the entire thing in one session, you will need this cap with keg fitting on top so you can hook up this CO2 cartridge dispenser directly to the bottle to keep enough pressure in the headspace so it stays carbonated. Otherwise the CO2 that was dissolved in the remaining beer will disperse into the now-greatly-increased headspace and your beer will go flat. NurseNan alluded to this.

Another underlying reason to favor glass beer bottles as opposed to 2L soda bottles is because the recipe kits that are readily available from the gamut of homebrew supply stores are designed around the system of 5 gallon batches and bottling in 12oz containers with 1/2" to 1-1/2" of headspace. You have to know what you're doing if you want to deviate from that. For example, a standard recipe kit will come with a sealed package of the exact amount of priming sugar you need to mix up with the 5 gallons of beer in order to carbonate properly in 12oz bottles. Don't use that much priming sugar to naturally carbonate 2 liter bottles though, because it will probably overcarbonate and if you're not careful it may explode. The little CO2 dispenser I linked above is unable to reach the pressure level required to force carbonate, so the only way around the flatness problem (besides drinking all 2 liters at once!) is to acquire what will amount to the most expensive components of a kegging system (CO2 tank, regulator, gas lines and fittings). By that time it's only a few dollars more to get a keg and skip the 2L bottles altogether. But with 12oz bottles, since you drink all 12oz at a time you don't have to deal with re-carbonation issues at all, not to mention oxygenation/oxidation resulting from the leftover beer having been exposed to air.

Once you learn all the insides and outs of brewing, by all means go ahead with 2L bottles. It sure would save some time on bottling day. But when you're just starting out, it is easiest, cheapest and has the best chance of successful homebrewing if you follow our collective advice and stick with 12oz brown bottles. You will learn the reasons why over time.

This has nothing to do with the herd mentality. This has everything to do with helping you have the greatest chance of success and pleasure homebrewing as you start out. Please choose your non-conformity battles on matters of purely personal preference instead.


According to this green is OK. It is beyond me to understand how clear bottles stored in a closet that has no windows or a Fridge that has no light can harm the beer.

Please give me a break? The beer sits in a clear glass or plastic carboy for a week or so ( apparently with no ill effects). Then some will try and tell you that clear bottles are no good.

The reason people are suggesting brown is because light (sunlight and fluorescent) causes a chemical reaction with some component of the hops that results in the exact same chemical compound that skunks emit. Brown bottles are designed to filter out the particular wavelength of light that causes this reaction. Green does not, clear does not. That's why people are suggesting brown as the color bottles to use. It doesn't mean you can leave it under a lamp 24/7, but you can definitely be a lot less careful about how much light your beer is exposed to.

There are a couple reasons I can think of why glass carboys tend to be clear. First, they tend to be stored in darkness anyway. But it could also be (I'm no chemist, someone please correct me if this is wrong) that the light affects the beer closest to the side of the container. Since glass carboys are so wide, the beer in the middle of the carboy is protected against much of the light by the beer on the outside. Maybe this limits the amount of skunking that is possible in a carboy that isn't being stirred. That's just hypothesizing on my part though.
 
Thank you for your post.

What I took exception to was being told not to be lazy, and to be classy and professional. I see that as an attempt to manipulate, which does not work with me, and yes it is a personal preference not to encourage those kind of responses.

I appreciate posts like yours that explain your reasons for what you say, in spite of the fact that I have filled a 1.14 liter Whiskey bottle with beer and drank from it over a period of a day and a half with out it going flat.

Thanks for the heads up on the rest of the info you have provided. I hope that enough research will enable me to avoid any pit falls that will be involved.:mug:
 
Mr Nick said:
Thank you for your post.

What I took exception to was being told not to be lazy, and to be classy and professional. I see that as an attempt to manipulate, which does not work with me, and yes it is a personal preference not to encourage those kind of responses.

We were not trying to do any such thing. I read every post, and what I see is you asking for advice, and the rest of the group trying to share their expertise to help you brew the best beer you possible can. That is why we are here. :mug: If you choose to accept that advice, that is up to you, since many on this board have been making beer for years, and many win competitions. They know what they are talking about. If you chose to eschew our advice, and are content to brew with the least amount of effort possible, that is up to you. You are the one who has to drink it.

Its like a surgeon closing an incision....would you rather he suture it closed, or are you content if he just slaps a couple of pieces of duct tape on there....:p

the Nurse dons her flameproof suit
 
NurseNan said:
We were not trying to do any such thing. I read every post,
the Nurse dons her flameproof suit

Did you read this one

Quote:
Originally Posted by DeadYetiBrew

No scratch that, quit being lazy and just bottle them. You'll be happy with the final product and it just looks classier... And 2 liter's Chug, beer bottles are made so that when they chug they don't over do it and cause a butt load of foam.

Imagine if someone handed you a 7up bottle and said "here taste this i made it myself"... then they TRY and pour it into a glass, it chuggs and you get mostly foam... not very professional...
 
One post.

You said:

Not being one to care so much about being classy as opposed to quality, and being able to accomplish that with the least amount of effort.
Quality=effort

Well there are number of ways that I can respond to this....First it has a lot to do with being able to step out of the box that some would like to place you in, which I have seen explained as the herd mentality.

Said another way.....I don't believe I have been placed on this planet to preform as others would like to prescribe. But that should not stop you from trying.
I can and do think for myself, but I take advice when it works.

I see that as an attempt to manipulate, which does not work with me, and yes it is a personal preference not to encourage those kind of responses.



So for one who does things his own way, with the least amount of effort, regardless of what the herd thinks, why not try out your original idea, and see if you can make it work? If you succeed, you prove us all wrong, and you can help many other brewers with your new system. If not, only your beer will suffer. As for me, I prefer sutures to duct tape.
 
NurseNan said:
So for one who does things his own way, with the least amount of effort, regardless of what the herd thinks, why not try out your original idea, and see if you can make it work? If you succeed, you prove us all wrong, and you can help many other brewers with your new system. If not, only your beer will suffer. As for me, I prefer sutures to duct tape.

I am not the least bit interested in proving anyone wrong. I am just not going where you are going. I hope that is alright? I mean I do have that right don't I? If my beer suffers you will be willing to let me take responsibility for my decisions won't you?
 
WOAH WOAH WOAH WOAH!!!!

CHILDREN CHILDREN! STOP!

Nick, i was in no way tyring to piss you off... I meant it all in good fun amongst homebrewers... When i said "Quit being lazy" i meant, Put more effort into it you'll come out 200% better.... When i said "classier" and "professional" i was hinting at the fact that a lot of hooch makers and teen alchies like to use plastic coke bottles to bottle their stuff (when theirs pressure they get piss drunk)... Believe me, when you're on this forum for 3-8 months you'll see atleast 4 thread about someone trying to increase their ABV without care for taste....

I see that i've pissed you off a bit and sparked a small quibble.... This was un-intended.... I will have no one offended, pissed off, taking exception to, or fed up with the homebrew community, because of my comments...

(need i mention i'm :drunk: on some beer i made my sister [easy to drink and fairly high ABV])

BTW: as long as you maintain proper beer-ness, experimenting is praised.
 
words on a screen can never convey all the nuances of facial expression and body language that a face to face conversation can....so much of communication is not spoken (or typed) word. Flames, however, can be cleansing. I've said my piece, now I will drop the matter, relax and have a homebrew.:mug:
 
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