Big Yeast Starter! How?

[Jayhem]

I always brew 11 gallon batches.

In order to build enough yeast for a Lager I need to build up around 6L of starter in 2-3 steps if I want to use one vial of liquid yeast!

What is the easiest way to build a starter this large? All I have is a 2L flask.

I usually start with a 1L starter, let it ferment out on the stir plate, chill and decant and pitch to a 2L starter and once it's fermented out and decanted, that's perfect for my 11 gal ales. The problem is for a Lager I need 3X more yeast! How can I go about this?

should pitch the starter after I have 2L of it into 4L or wort in a larger vessel? I really don't want to have to buy a $50 5L flask so I was going to just use plastic water jugs or 1 gal pickle jars for the 3rd step starter with intermittent shaking.

 

[thadass]

I've never had to do a starter anywhere near that large, but I have made a 3L starter with a 1G glass jug on my stir plate just fine. Depending on your stir plate and stir bar, I'd say just finding a larger vessel that works would be the best option.

 

[Jayhem]

I've never had to do a starter anywhere near that large, but I have made a 3L starter with a 1G glass jug on my stir plate just fine. Depending on your stir plate and stir bar, I'd say just finding a larger vessel that works would be the best option.

That's what I was hoping. I just didn't know how a large glass jar or jug would work on the stir plate. If I have to I'll do a split starter and give the last step turns on the stir plate.

 

[thadass]

That's what I was hoping. I just didn't know how a large glass jar or jug would work on the stir plate. If I have to I'll do a split starter and give the last step turns on the stir plate.

When I was doing the 3L in the gallon jug with my single-speed DIY stirplate, I got a fairly respectable dimple in the surface of the liquid. I tested it first with just water but dropped a few drops of blue food coloring into the dimple to see what was going on in the water.
Within an instant there was a dark blue vortex in the middle of the jug and an instant after that the entire jug of water was blue. Even with only a small dimple in the surface, there was a ton of action going on inside.

So I guess my suggestion is to test it with water and coloring (or soy sauce etc) to see if you have enough internal movement for that container to work.

 

[CastleHollow]

I'm cheap, so if I ever need a starter that large, I just plan ahead and make a small batch of beer a week or so in advance of the big batch. I'd rather pitch slurry from a beer that I get to drink, than have to decant off & dump that much starter.

 

[RoundKid]

Find a bigger vessel. 5L flask, 1 gallon jug, 1 gallon bucket, or whatever is big enough and works on your stir plate. If you regularly make 10+ gallon batches you will quickly appreciate the saved time not constantly stepping up starters.

You can easily pitch one vial into a starter into that is 3-4L and not step it up for your ales(source). This is actually healthier for the yeast because they are not competing for the same sugar/nutrients and you are less likely to get contamination because there are less transfers.

For a big lager starter, you still need to step up, but only once (2L to 4L) to reach a good pitch rate.

I have a 5L flask, but before I did i often used a 2 gallon bucket on my stir plate without issue (and on one occasion when doing a double 10 gallon lager brew day made a 9L starter in a 5 gallon bucket on my DIY stir plate).

 

[zeekage]

Check out www.yeastcalc.com and use their step calculator. Also, if you use the stirplate (K. Troester) method (instead of J Zainesheff) it's probably not hard to get up to the required cells with a few steps of 1.5-2L starters. I got a 5L flask relatively cheap on http://store.homebrewheaven.com/storefront.aspx too. They had a shipping discount so the total was close to $30 shipped. Keep an eye on that if you want to snag one. Even a 3L flask would help too.

 

[Jayhem]

If I buy a 5L flask, can I use it for small starters as well? Say 2L? Or would I need 2 sizes of flasks for best results?

 

[zeekage]

I don't see why you couldn't use it for smaller starters. If you already have a 2L flask i'm guessing you'll reach for that one for smaller starters just for convenience, since the 5L flask is an absolute monster.

 

[dinnerstick]

you absolutely can use a 5L flask for 2L starters! i also use mine as the fermenter for 4L test batches, where i do a mini-BIAB in a kitchen pot on the stovetop, and i use it when i split a batch for different yeasts or to add different fruits or dry hops. what i'm saying is that it's useful for stuff other than a giant starter. but yeah also expensive and fairly fragile. 5L jugs are cheaper but usually don't hold a stirbar well

 

[zeekage]

you absolutely can use a 5L flask for 2L starters! i also use mine as the fermenter for 4L test batches, where i do a mini-BIAB in a kitchen pot on the stovetop, and i use it when i split a batch for different yeasts or to add different fruits or dry hops. what i'm saying is that it's useful for stuff other than a giant starter. but yeah also expensive and fairly fragile. 5L jugs are cheaper but usually don't hold a stirbar well

That's a good idea. I'd never thought to use it as a fermenter!

 

[hs1149]

I have tested my new stir plate with different flasks, jugs & growlers. As long at the vessel has a flat bottom (on the interior) the stir bar should stay in place. Some of my 1/2g growlers work. My 1gallon wine jug is not flat enough to hold the bar, but I am always looking for more; hoping to finding one that works.

 

[VikingChrisColby]

Make the yeast starter in your fermenter. When your wort is chilled, pour or drain off the starter wort, leaving behind the yeast sediment.
Also, why do you think you need to step up to 6 L? Pitching 1 vial or smack pack to 6 L is still overpitching the starter (which is fine).

This article has some info that will hopefully be helpful to you:

http://beerandwinejournal.com/better-yeast-starters/

[Edit: Just to elaborate a bit. A yeast vial contains about 35 mL of yeast slurry, not 35 mL of fermented wort. It has about 100 billion cells. When you step up from a vial, base your pitching rate on the cell count, not the volume. If you had 35 mL of fermented wort, you would need to step it up a couple times to hit 6 L (to 350 mL then 3,500 mL and then up to 6). For 35 mL of yeast slurry (from a larger volume of fermented wort) -- pitch that right to your 6 L starter.]


Chris Colby
Editor
beerandwinejournal.com

 

[zeekage]

Also, why do you think you need to step up to 6 L? Pitching 1 vial or smack pack to 6 L is still overpitching the starter (which is fine).

Probably because most people don't have stir-plate friendly vessels that size.

 

[Jayhem]

Make the yeast starter in your fermenter. When your wort is chilled, pour or drain off the starter wort, leaving behind the yeast sediment.
Also, why do you think you need to step up to 6 L? Pitching 1 vial or smack pack to 6 L is still overpitching the starter (which is fine).

This article has some info that will hopefully be helpful to you:

http://beerandwinejournal.com/better-yeast-starters/

[Edit: Just to elaborate a bit. A yeast vial contains about 35 mL of yeast slurry, not 35 mL of fermented wort. It has about 100 billion cells. When you step up from a vial, base your pitching rate on the cell count, not the volume. If you had 35 mL of fermented wort, you would need to step it up a couple times to hit 6 L (to 350 mL then 3,500 mL and then up to 6). For 35 mL of yeast slurry (from a larger volume of fermented wort) -- pitch that right to your 6 L starter.]


Chris Colby
Editor
beerandwinejournal.com

According to http://yeastcalc.com/ to make 11 gallons of a Lager with an OG of 1.056 I would need 872 Billion yeast cells! If I pitch 1 vial (100 billion cells) with an 89% viability rate (2 week old yeast) I would need about 5.5 L of starter wort using a stir plate for optimum pitching rate. Since I am only going to have a 5L flask for my stir plate I would have to do 2-step starter 2L in the 1st and 3.5L in the second.

 

[zeekage]

According to http://yeastcalc.com/ to make 11 gallons of a Lager with an OG of 1.056 I would need 872 Billion yeast cells! If I pitch 1 vial (100 billion cells) with an 89% viability rate (2 week old yeast) I would need about 5.5 L of starter wort using a stir plate for optimum pitching rate. Since I am only going to have a 5L flask for my stir plate I would have to do 2-step starter 2L in the 1st and 3.5L in the second.

You can also play with the gravity of the starter wort, and when using the K. Troester method it'll change the number of yeast cells you get. Jamil's stir plate method doesn't take into account the starter gravity. I wouldn't go too high but maybe bumping it up to 1.040 or so would help bring the size down a bit. Not sure exactly where the limit is where the higher gravity becomes detrimental to yeast health though.