Big Mouth Bubblers are dangerously thin

Yakima 728
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Hello said:
What's that supposed to mean? I just took that as you referring to me as a whore or something. You should be downright ashamed of yourself. And here you are as a vendor ****ting on another member and former customer on a matter that probably doesn't affect him. That's cute.

Where do I send my resume? I did not intend snark but i most certainly wanted to see where this guy got his info. The lynch mob cannot blame me for that but clearly, you all do. I'm woman enough to apologize for any unintended snark on my part. I thanked the guy for his link but again, it's easier to continue an attack online than it is to just move on. ;)
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"This woman's going into labor! Is there a doctor in the house?"
"I'm not a doctor, but I DID stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night."
*delivers baby*
*cheering and applause*

Not a whore reference, just a somewhat dated joke referring to an ad campaign implying that staying at a Holiday Inn would make you smarter and more capable than everyone else. Relax. :mug:


Sent from my iPad using Home Brew
 
I'm glad we don't carry them in my store. I thought they were a sound idea, but letting the quality slip like this is not good. Heck we check every carboy for damage, thin walls and bubbles in the glass before we sell them.
 
I read one of the articles on the home page here a few months ago where the author broke down a pretty detailed comparison of glass vs plastic (No mention of stainless steel). In short, it said that even high quality, food grade, plastic can have some oxygen permeation during a long fermentation. As a result I ended up buying the plastic 6.5gal BMB for primary and the glass 5gal BMB for secondary. Reading this thread, I'm really glad I read that article before deciding what to buy. Haven't had any issues with the plastic 6.5gal, and the extra head space is great. The 5gal BMB seems pretty sturdy all the way around and will soon have a barley wine in it for the long haul.

Link: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/Glass-or-Plastic-Which-Big-Mouth-Bubbler-is-for-you.html
 
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fsr_racer said:
I read one of the articles on the home page here a few months ago where the author broke down a pretty detailed comparison of glass vs plastic (No mention of stainless steel). In short, it said that even high quality, food grade, plastic can have some oxygen permeation during a long fermentation. As a result I ended up buying the plastic 6.5gal BMB for primary and the glass 5gal BMB for secondary. Reading this thread, I'm really glad I read that article before deciding what to buy. Haven't had any issues with the plastic 6.5gal, and the extra head space is great. The 5gal BMB seems pretty sturdy all the way around and will soon have a barley wine in it for the long haul.

Link: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/Glass-or-Plastic-Which-Big-Mouth-Bubbler-is-for-you.html
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The article you link to does not give an amount for the oxygen that is passed through the walls of a plastic vessel. So far I have not found an article that definitively answers the question of exactly how much O2 is passed through into your beer.
 
Homercidal said:
The article you link to does not give an amount for the oxygen that is passed through the walls of a plastic vessel. So far I have not found an article that definitively answers the question of exactly how much O2 is passed through into your beer.
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I believe that Sparrow has a chart in Wild Brews (I'd have to go downstairs and look at my copy to be certain)
 
dryboroughbrewing said:
I believe that Sparrow has a chart in Wild Brews (I'd have to go downstairs and look at my copy to be certain)
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I'd be curious to see it. One thing that would be excellent for homebrewers is a methodical and accurate testing of the permeability of the various fermentor vessels.
 
The link provides a chart showing the resistance of several types of plastic to resist oxygen transmission.

http://www.alphap.com/basics/compare.html

HDPE plastic which is generally considered to have pretty low O2 permeability is listed at 4000, while PET plastic is listed at 75. While the O2 transmission rate for PET is not zero, it is over 50 times less than HDPE.

I have no idea how this translates to a fermenter and the long term aging of beer, but I have always thought that PET while not absolutely impermeable to oxygen transmission, is pretty damn close and perfectly suitable for our purpose.

Using glass without tangible benefit just doesn't make sense to me, but if it makes one "feel" good...
 
O2 permeability is so overrated for homebrewing. Eveyone jizzes their pants for barrel aged this and that yet those have far far greater permeability then glass and plastic. And on top of that, the bung is what leaks the most anyway and pretty sure those are identical for glass or plastic.
 
poptarts said:
O2 permeability is so overrated for homebrewing. Eveyone jizzes their pants for barrel aged this and that yet those have far far greater permeability then glass and plastic. And on top of that, the bung is what leaks the most anyway and pretty sure those are identical for glass or plastic.
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I think this is the big thing to note here. Without empirical data to back me up, I'd guess that the VAST majority of Oxygen introduced into a beer is done via the opening, or during racking. (For most people who aren't extremely anal about their methods and are using CO2 and closed systems.)

Seriously, though. Why can't companies make a NICE glass fermentor that has a very low chance of breaking with normal use? With something like 3/16" or 1/4" glass. Something big and heavy and SOLID?
 
I've personally been through two of the glass bmb already. But as stated northern brewer hooked me up for it both times. First sending me another glass bmb then when that broke a plastic bmb along with a 25$ gift card for price offset and compensation. The plastic one seems much better. Crappy product but excellent customer service.


Sent from my iPhone using Home Brew
 
Homercidal said:
Seriously, though. Why can't companies make a NICE glass fermentor that has a very low chance of breaking with normal use? With something like 3/16" or 1/4" glass. Something big and heavy and SOLID?
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Because it would be too small of a market and making glass anything is expensive?
 
Homercidal said:
I think this is the big thing to note here. Without empirical data to back me up, I'd guess that the VAST majority of Oxygen introduced into a beer is done via the opening, or during racking. (For most people who aren't extremely anal about their methods and are using CO2 and closed systems.)

Seriously, though. Why can't companies make a NICE glass fermentor that has a very low chance of breaking with normal use? With something like 3/16" or 1/4" glass. Something big and heavy and SOLID?
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I have a couple of these in the 5 gallon size in my laboratory at work.

http://www.fishersci.com/ecomm/servlet/fsproductdetail_10652_11646762__-1_0

They are super durable and I have no worries of them breaking. The problem is a stainless conical is more economical than these things.
 
Homercidal said:
Seriously, though. Why can't companies make a NICE glass fermentor that has a very low chance of breaking with normal use? With something like 3/16" or 1/4" glass. Something big and heavy and SOLID?
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Greed is why my friend....Greed.
 
Sure people want inexpensive but not to the point of wreeckless endangerment.
I'm broke as F**k but i refuse to buy chinese/mexican glass carboys.
If i'm going for glass it's italian or nothing regardless of price because 10-20 bucks more on a glass carboy is a hell of a lot better than 2-k on a hopital visit.
Much less painfull on the wallet as well as the body in the long run.
I guess that we can agree that we disagree.
 
Paps said:
Sure people want inexpensive but not to the point of wreeckless endangerment.
I'm broke as F**k but i refuse to buy chinese/mexican glass carboys.
If i'm going for glass it's italian or nothing regardless of price because 10-20 bucks more on a glass carboy is a hell of a lot better than 2-k on a hopital visit.
Much less painfull on the wallet as well as the body in the long run.
I guess that we can agree that we disagree.
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Walmart is America's largest retail store, by far. You can disagree, but the truth is most of America wants the cheapest possible merchandise. Companies that want to survive give the people what they want, nothing more, nothing less.
 
Great....let me sell you a car that we both know it's going to blow up with you in it...but that's `better` in yho because its cheaper than a car that wont blow up.
Walmart is known for intentionally selling at a loss in new stores to drive competition under. They just so happen to have their coorporate offices in the county i live in and have dealt with a few of them before. Besides that though....Wal-Mart's glasses aren't known for shattering in your hands within a year.......really your statement is not a good comparison at all.
 
Will I buy a $19.99 Mr Coffee coffee maker, instead of a $65.00 Braun or Cuisinart? For a cheapo at work, I will buy cheap. But for my house, no cheap crap. My Cuisinart coffee maker is used at least once a day, everyday, for 4 years plus, and I have never had a Mr Crappo machine last more than a year.
 
In some cases cheap is fine. Other times, it pays to avoid the low price and get something for what it is.

It can't cost that much more to make a glass BMB thicker. There is a bunch of overhead in the manufacturing process. Adding a bit more glass is not going to affect the overhead much if at all. Soda bottles are glass. T he glass is a small portion of the price of the drink. Multiply the price of the glass by an amount needed to make a glass BMB. It can't be but a few dollars. I'm sure most of us who would buy a glass BMB would pay the difference if they knew it was a solid product.

The reason they are so thin is because they thought they could get away with offering the thinnest product possible.
 
I agree with both sides of the buy cheap, buy now argument. During the week I brew cheap, pre-ground coffee in that cheap "Walmart special" pot just to get some caffeine in me before my morning commute. On weekends when I have more time to enjoy it I'll pull out the premium beans, grind, and steep in the french press. Am I outraged when the cheap stuff breaks? No, it serves a simple purpose and is easily replaced. Most manufacturers aren't going to tell you that your car is going to burst into flames, their meat is full of hormones, or that their clothes are made by children in a foreign country. Ultimately the responsibility falls to us, the consumer, to do exactly what we are doing right now, and that is making each other aware of potential issues/poor quality of a specific product. The OP has done this for us, for that I thank him, and is lucky he was using the nylon harness not his bare hands, or he'd be posting pics of his stitches in one of the "My carboy is trying to kill me" threads.

Most members on here obviously care about the quality of their products, just as they care about the quality of their beer. The average consumer does not, it's the out of sight - out of mind mentality. They rely too much on businesses to be honest and the goverment to keep them honest. Laughable.
 
Homercidal said:
It can't cost that much more to make a glass BMB thicker.
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Probably not on a per unit basis once the change was made but it will cost big bucks if the production line molds, jigs, fixturing, etc need modification.

Since this is a fairly new product, those companies probably just got done paying for the first round....now they find out they need to rework the whole thing? That is probably the rub.
 
I purchased the plastic BMB as soon as it went up for sale on NBs site. I have always used glass carboys in the past with great success, and thankfully no accidents. I have nothing but good things to say about it, cleaning is a breeze, I haven't had any issues with liquid spewing out everywhere like I have had in my carboys.

I'm glad now that I didn't go with the glass version, I don't know why I didn't go with glass, but I bought the plastic version. It is a little flimsy but once its full of wort it is pretty solid. I use the harness I bought from Rebel Brewer for my traditional carboys and it works perfectly.

I recommend them, but I would stay away from glass after hearing the horror stories in this thread.
 
broadbill said:
Probably not on a per unit basis once the change was made but it will cost big bucks if the production line molds, jigs, fixturing, etc need modification.

Since this is a fairly new product, those companies probably just got done paying for the first round....now they find out they need to rework the whole thing? That is probably the rub.
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Actually, they probably don't have to modify the mold. I think all they need to do is increase the shot size. The outside diameter would remain the same, and you would lose a small amount of volume by adding thickness.
 
When you decide to start making a glass vessel from scratch, the mold is the most expensive thing. Then you have the quantity commitment to deal with so that you can fill at least one container on the ship. Hmm, 21 pallets at least. Probably 70 units per pallet so some 1500 units at least. My wild guess is that they'll keep replacing them and selling them until all of that first run is gone. It's a mighty tough pill to swallow to just sledge hammer the whole lot in the dumpster.
 
All it takes is one lawsuit and maybe they'll reconsider selling cheap thin glass carboys and deleting negative product comments. That last one bothers me greatly.
 
They need to slap a giant warning on em, sell them at a reduced cost as is. and start on a new batch.
 
So the plastic Big Mouth arrived the other day and I'm pretty happy with it as a replacement. I feel much safer using this product. I suppose you could say it's relatively "flimsy", but the reality is we all know how strong and durable plastic is.

I will say this experience has made me a bit weary of Northern Brewer and Midwest. It's obvious it was a conscious decision to sell such an inferior product. When I originally purchased the vessel, I was very concerned about the thickness of the glass. I figured they wouldn't sell it if it couldn't support it's own weight when filled with brew. Now I realize I shouldn't be so quick to trust these retailers!
 
I think the key to buying anything is research. A informed consumer will pay more for a product they can rely on. Some just want to do the bare minimum, and that's who I spend most of the day with on the phone, troubleshooting. It doesn't help that our economy is poor shape, so most have to go the cheap route to make ends meet, not much disposable income anymore.

As for the manufactures of this crap, they will keep making crap as long as they can sell it. Plain and simple.
 
trimixdiver1 said:
I think the key to buying anything is research. A informed consumer will pay more for a product they can rely on. Some just want to do the bare minimum, and that's who I spend most of the day with on the phone, troubleshooting. It doesn't help that our economy is poor shape, so most have to go the cheap route to make ends meet, not much disposable income anymore.

As for the manufactures of this crap, they will keep making crap as long as they can sell it. Plain and simple.
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I agree with you in the general sense, but in this specific instance, the glass BMB is $38, whereas an italian glass carboy from the same vendor is $40. You might forgive the consumer who might think the quality would be similar.
 
I'm late to this conversation but I actually had a lengthy email exchange with Midwest about this issue. Here's a LINK to my post on Reddit as well as the TL;DR of the discussion. If I'm repeating things that have already been said I apologize.

In short, they know of the complaints but feel the number of satisfied customers far outweighs any issues. The BMB's are handmade and therefore may have some inconsistencies in the thickness but they don't feel it's a safety concern. However, they are working to improve their products at all times.

The biggest issue IMO is that they filter their reviews. If a 1 or 2 star review is submitted they do not post it but rather contact the person to see if they can rectify the situation. The star rating you see is NOT an accurate reflection of the actual reviews on the product but only those selected by Midwest. To me this seems like a risky move on their part for an item that is injuring a lot of people.
 
I agree about the reviews. They should post all reasonable reviews (idiots and mistakes aside) and then post follow-ups to clarify if there is a user error or if they feel justified in commenting on a poor review. Hand-picking reviews may seem like good business practice, but I rarely use the reviews on a product site to base my buying decision upon. I usually look at a few different, non-biased sites to get an overall idea of the product.

As far as a few poorly made BMBs, we are talking about a safety concern here. It's not as if the only way to get hurt is by being stupid or careless. If an automobile were to cut people like this, this many times, in normal use, there would be a recall. If kids were getting cut like this playing with a plastic trike, there would be a recall.

So it seems odd that the sellers can just kind of shrug this off.
 
A question for those of you with experience. I have a glass BMB in my chest freezer/fermentor with another month to go as a secondary fermenting of a double IPA. When the time comes would it be a good idea to use a milk crate to lift and carry it or the strap carrier that I bought with it?
Bob
 
All of my carboys (5 gallons, one 3 gallon) are Italian glass....never had a problem and they seem pretty dang thick glass. I use buckets for primary, but always glass for secondary (make mead mostly)...to tell the truth, the two shops I go to only carry Italian glass carboys....how 'bout that ....
 

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