Big Mouth Bubblers are dangerously thin

[itsme_timd]

A question for those of you with experience. I have a glass BMB in my chest freezer/fermentor with another month to go as a secondary fermenting of a double IPA. When the time comes would it be a good idea to use a milk crate to lift and carry it or the strap carrier that I bought with it?
Bob

Everyone I know that has had one says the carrier is an absolute necessity. Due to the thin spots in the glass even leaning it a bit can put enough pressure on the weak spot for it to shatter.

 

[fsr_racer]

Everyone I know that has had one says the carrier is an absolute necessity. Due to the thin spots in the glass even leaning it a bit can put enough pressure on the weak spot for it to shatter.

The OP was using the harness though, and just the pressure from the harness squeezing the BMB while being lifted was enough to crack it.

 

[day_trippr]

The OP was using the harness, though, and just the pressure from the harness squeezing the BMB while being lifted was enough to crack it.

Exactly. And that's totally effed up.

It seems it's going to take a fatality before this time bomb is recalled...

Cheers!

 

[gwaugh]

A few comments/questions.

I use 6.5 Italian carboys for fermentation which are close to the price of the glass BMB so I would also expect the quality/thickness of the glass to be similar. My problem is that someone somewhere designed the mold, inspected the first samples and decided to OK the production. I don't see how anyone would see the thickness as acceptable or safe.

I was a bit dissapointed when I found this thread as I loved the design of the large opening and was planning on purchasing a couple but not now. Plastic is not an option for me. It is a personal preference but I had several batches become infected from plastic 6 gallon bottles I used to use. I had 2 of them and only had trouble with one but could not get rid of it. Several overnight soaks in PBW, followed with Starsan and I still got infections. Switched over to nothing but glass and no problems. Anyone else have trouble with plastic in this way?

I guess this thread is helping me decide on saving for the conical from SS Brewtech I've eyeing.

 

[day_trippr]

[...]I use 6.5 Italian carboys for fermentation which are close to the price of the glass BMB so I would also expect the quality/thickness of the glass to be similar.[...]

I have six 6.5g Italian carboys and they're not even remotely similar in thickness to what has been pictured...

Cheers!

 

[bja]

The reason they are so thin is because they thought they could get away with offering the thinnest product possible.

Doubtful. Making them thinner isn't going to save a significant amount of money. The cost of the extra material would be pennies, literally. Shipping costs would also be unaffected since they weigh very little relative to their size.

 

[penguinwing13]

- I had a BMB, for lack of a better term disintegrate in my had Sunday morning. It had less than a gallon of room temp sanitizer water in it so pressure & temp weren't an issue. It did cause a very deep cut on my right had requiring surgery & many stitches to repair. So in short stay away from these things!!!

 

[RPCidery]

After all of these failures, one would think NB would try to contract Owen-Illinois or some other US glass manufacturer to make some QUALITY products. I don't mind spending a few extra $$ for better quality.
One could always buy a stainless steel milk can and use that for a wide mouth fermenter.

 

[progmac]

- I had a BMB, for lack of a better term disintegrate in my had Sunday morning. It had less than a gallon of room temp sanitizer water in it so pressure & temp weren't an issue. It did cause a very deep cut on my right had requiring surgery & many stitches to repair. So in short stay away from these things!!!

Holy moly. I would send your medical bill to northern brewer. I'm glad the injury wasn't worse.

 

[ButcherBoy]

I'll be sticking with plastic buckets, plastic carboys, and when really necessary my two 40 year old made in the U.S.A. glass carboys. (safely nestled in crates)

 

[IslandLizard]

I see some lawyers getting stinking rich in the near future. And the victims will get some too, in change for bearing the suffering. It may put the suppliers out of business.

When a retailer knowingly puts defective or failing products on the market they are certainly responsible. Particularly in the light that they claim to supervise [sic] the process. Sad to see all this happening, and way too often. It's not a fluke, look how thin they are.

Sure, a glass manufacturer in China can make a great bottle in the presence of the client. Once they turn their back, the quality goes down hill, "just make a million of these." They may be even outsourcing them.

I went "back" to plastic buckets. And secondary in kegs when needed, under CO2. My older Mexican and Italian glass carboys are only used for sours.

 

[IslandLizard]

- I had a BMB, for lack of a better term disintegrate in my had Sunday morning. It had less than a gallon of room temp sanitizer water in it so pressure & temp weren't an issue. It did cause a very deep cut on my right had requiring surgery & many stitches to repair. So in short stay away from these things!!!View attachment 219158View attachment 219159

You're sort of lucky, it could have been way, way worse. Hope you fully recover. It's sad to see a first time poster having to post an injury of this scale.

 

[penguinwing13]

Thanks for the concerns. Mine came from midwest, I wrote a review about the incident but it's yet to show up on the products page & am assuming that it will not.

 

[penguinwing13]

Oh & no beer was lost!! : )

 

[IslandLizard]

A few comments/questions.

I use 6.5 Italian carboys for fermentation which are close to the price of the glass BMB so I would also expect the quality/thickness of the glass to be similar. My problem is that someone somewhere designed the mold, inspected the first samples and decided to OK the production. I don't see how anyone would see the thickness as acceptable or safe.

I was a bit dissapointed when I found this thread as I loved the design of the large opening and was planning on purchasing a couple but not now. Plastic is not an option for me. It is a personal preference but I had several batches become infected from plastic 6 gallon bottles I used to use. I had 2 of them and only had trouble with one but could not get rid of it. Several overnight soaks in PBW, followed with Starsan and I still got infections. Switched over to nothing but glass and no problems. Anyone else have trouble with plastic in this way?

I guess this thread is helping me decide on saving for the conical from SS Brewtech I've eyeing.

If those plastic carboys (or buckets) are not scratched, there is no reason you can't properly clean and sanitize them. I don't own any, but you can't use a brush apparently. Some people use a rag and swirl it around to ease sticky crud out.

Many of us use plastic with no problems. Some use 15 gallon temperature controlled plastic conical fermentors with great success.

Where and when in the process did you notice infections? Maybe it's not the fermentors but an overlooked part of the process.

 

[barnaclebob]

- I had a BMB, for lack of a better term disintegrate in my had Sunday morning. It had less than a gallon of room temp sanitizer water in it so pressure & temp weren't an issue. It did cause a very deep cut on my right had requiring surgery & many stitches to repair. So in short stay away from these things!!!View attachment 219158View attachment 219159

You need to tell them to pay your medical costs for this. Its really unacceptable.

 

[barnaclebob]

Here is what I just sent northern brewer, I advise others to do the same. Yes I could have written it a little better but all of the info is there:

I don't know if you are aware of the current forum thread going on at homebrewtalk.com but I will not be giving your company any money until you issue a recall or tell all owners of Big Mouth Bubblers to destroy them and refund their money. People are getting seriously injured because of your company's incompetence. You are knowingly selling defective and dangerous products and that is completely unacceptable.

Here is the link to the thread, pay particular attention to post #87

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f11/big-mouth-bubblers-dangerously-thin-486222/index9.html

There is also a warning on the very front of reddit.com/r/homebrewing about your faulty product

Its one thing when people break carboys by bumping them into the counter and post pictures of quarter inch thick glass shards, its another when there is overwhelming evidence that these things are stupid thin.

 

[penguinwing13]

- I agree 100%. If both NB & Midwest are selling a product they know to be defective it's very irresponsible on their part & do not deserve yours, mine, or anybody else's business.

 

[Paps]

Combine this with how their computers that hold everyones credit card/private info on them, got hacked and they didn't announce it publicly until they got called out on it (within the last year{thread about it on this forum}) I personally won't do business with them and suggest others do the same. Businesses with this little concern for the safety of the customers whom make their paychecks possible don't deserve to stay in business.

 

[trimixdiver1]

Damn I'm drunk, sorry wrong thread....

 

[MrSnacks]

Thanks for the concerns. Mine came from midwest, I wrote a review about the incident but it's yet to show up on the products page & am assuming that it will not.

It absolutely won't be published.

Midwest/NB is dangerously negligent with these things and I hope they get their asses sued.

 

[trimixdiver1]

It's funny with all the bad things going on that there are no negative reviews..... I really question those two shops. Nothing good can come of this, just own it and move on. Why hide the fact that these are crap?

 

[icebob]

I'm just not going to order anything from those 2 shops until they come forward and do something to correct the situation... just sayin...

 

[MrSnacks]

It's funny with all the bad things going on that there are no negative reviews..... I really question those two shops. Nothing good can come of this, just own it and move on. Why hide the fact that these are crap?

They don't post bad reviews. It would be...bad. For business.

http://www.reddit.com/r/Homebrewing/comments/2c53y4/i_emailed_midwest_about_issues_with_their_glass/


There are reviews that are not posted, and there are many reasons why.
We find that the 1 or 2 star reviews are upgraded to a higher score for that product after our customer service contact. It is possible that the product that was reviewed is not reflective of our entire line of that product. When we have resolved the issue, we encourage the customer to write another review (currently, we are unable to edit/change the original It is in the works though).
Other reviews are left by trolls with guest accounts, and no means to connect them to an order. We cannot allow reviews from people who have not purchased product.
There are also reviews that come in that are laden with profanity or vulgar comparisons. One of my favorites that couldnt be posted was a very positive one for a honey ale. The brewer made mention of some creative uses for the honey and the beer.
Any review that is submitted is read by our product team, and those reviews that contain negative feedback are also read by our President. We take them very seriously and it will drive changes for the better in homebrewing. Keep your eyes open, because we are trying to do a lot of things that brewers on forums are asking for.

 

[Paps]

They don't post bad reviews. It would be...bad. For business.

Business......something they won't be getting from me.

 

[barnaclebob]

Response from NB:

Thank you for the email. We don't like to hear any brewing accidents and you can imagine those that we have heard. The closest that I have been to one was when a co-worker had a similar, much bigger laceration from a damaged Italian Carboy. He required surgery and months of physical therapy. Luckily, he went onto a successful commercial brewing career and now gets to use large Stainless Steel tanks and avoid glass all-together.

We will do our best to reach out to Post 87, but it looks like he ordered from Midwest. He only has a 4 post history, all of which have been in that thread. I am sure the Midwest Crew will be able to do some detective work though and will even message him on HBT.com if necessary.

We do have warning labels on the product packaging and on the website. I will make sure that our leadership team sees this thread and your email.
Thanks again for sending it.

Cheers,
Todd J
Northern Brewer, LLC
1-800-681-2739

While its great that they will look into this, good "after the fact" customer service is no excuse for knowingly selling faulty products.

 

[bja]

Response from NB:



While its great that they will look into this, good "after the fact" customer service is no excuse for knowingly selling faulty products.

You sent it to the wrong store.

 

[MrSnacks]

You sent it to the wrong store.

Midwest/NB are the same company.

 

[barnaclebob]

You sent it to the wrong store.

They are the same company now and they both sell the same product.

 

[bja]

They are the same company now and they both sell the same product.

Really? When did that happen?

 

[troy2000]

They don't post bad reviews. It would be...bad. For business.

http://www.reddit.com/r/Homebrewing/comments/2c53y4/i_emailed_midwest_about_issues_with_their_glass/


There are reviews that are not posted, and there are many reasons why.
We find that the 1 or 2 star reviews are upgraded to a higher score for that product after our customer service contact. It is possible that the product that was reviewed is not reflective of our entire line of that product. When we have resolved the issue, we encourage the customer to write another review (currently, we are unable to edit/change the original It is in the works though).
Other reviews are left by trolls with guest accounts, and no means to connect them to an order. We cannot allow reviews from people who have not purchased product.
There are also reviews that come in that are laden with profanity or vulgar comparisons. One of my favorites that couldnt be posted was a very positive one for a honey ale. The brewer made mention of some creative uses for the honey and the beer.
Any review that is submitted is read by our product team, and those reviews that contain negative feedback are also read by our President. We take them very seriously and it will drive changes for the better in homebrewing. Keep your eyes open, because we are trying to do a lot of things that brewers on forums are asking for.

IMHO, a more honest approach would be to post the original negative reviews, explain what actions were taken by the company to resolve them, and invite the customers to write follow-up reviews.

I agree that sooner or later, they're going to get hit with a very expensive lawsuit for not only selling a defective, dangerous product, but filtering their reviews to keep customers from realizing the danger.

 

[hunter_le five]

Really? When did that happen?

Last year, IIRC.

 

[penguinwing13]

I Agree with Troy2000, I honestly haven't asked Midwest for anything other than a serious review of the safety of a product they sell. Be honest, if there is a problem with the product stop selling it & move on. Trying to cover up or ignore a problem will only make it worse.

 

[penguinwing13]

& just as a point of interest, if you go look at the BMB on Amazon there are more 1 star reviews, most having to do with the thin glass or breakage of the BMB thEn there are 5 star reviews. The BMB is also listed as "currently unavailable" on Amazon which I find strange as it is listed as fulfilled by Midwest who according to the Midwest site the BMB is in stock.

 

[barnaclebob]

& just as a point of interest, if you go look at the BMB on Amazon there are more 1 star reviews, most having to do with the thin glass or breakage of the BMB thEn there are 5 star reviews. The BMB is also listed as "currently unavailable" on Amazon which I find strange as it is listed as fulfilled by Midwest who according to the Midwest site the BMB is in stock.

I wonder if Amazon will stop shipping things that end up getting returned or refunded a lot. Especially large bulky fragile items that cost a lot to ship.

 

[passedpawn]

I wonder if Amazon will stop shipping things that end up getting returned or refunded a lot. Especially large bulky fragile items that cost a lot to ship.

They do have policies that alert them to vendors with numerous complaints, including poor reviews. I don't know the heuristics used to prompt them to action, but they certainly have something.

 

[troy2000]

& just as a point of interest, if you go look at the BMB on Amazon there are more 1 star reviews, most having to do with the thin glass or breakage of the BMB thEn there are 5 star reviews. The BMB is also listed as "currently unavailable" on Amazon which I find strange as it is listed as fulfilled by Midwest who according to the Midwest site the BMB is in stock.

Interestingly enough, the plastic BMB is also listed as unavailable.

 

[troy2000]

I just checked out Midwest Brewing's website. The glass BMB was listed on their home page as one of their 'Staff Picks.' When I clicked on the picture for more information, I found this warning in the middle of the product description:

Caution: Big Mouth Bubbler™ is a large hand-formed glass item that can be easily damaged if not used with proper care and handling. It may have variations in shape and thickness, and will show the normal bubbling characteristics of hand-formed glass. Extreme changes in temperature or sudden contact with hard surfaces may cause glass to crack. Handle with care–we strongly recommend using the Big Mouth Bubbler™ carrying harness for increased safety and ease of handling.

http://www.midwestsupplies.com/big-mouth-bubbler-6-5-gallon-fermentor.html

Is that disclaimer enough to wash their hands of responsibility? I think not, if the posts here are accurate. Because apparently, the BMB's have been breaking even when used with proper care and handling.... and they've been told so multiple times.

It's a shame; I was seriously thinking about buying one of the glass ones. The plastic ones are too tall for my mini-fridge fermenter, and I have an irrational aversion to flimsy-feeling plastic anyway.

Guess I'll stick with my old 5 gal carboys. If they haven't broken after forty or fifty years, I think they'll hold together for a few more - unless I do something clumsy or stupid, of course.

 

[RPCidery]

I'm a pretty big critic of frivolous litigation (like burning yourself with hot coffee and such), but I tend to agree that this could be a major liability if they are aware that these things are too thin and fragile for their advertized purpose.

That said, I have been seeing vintage, 40+ year old, wide mouth carboys at some of the local thrift and vintage shops. I had previously passed on them, but they are starting to look pretty handy. So let it be known that there are older, US-made large opening glass vessels out there.

 

[troy2000]

I'm a pretty big critic of frivolous litigation (like burning yourself with hot coffee and such), but I tend to agree that this could be a major liability if they are aware that these things are too thin and fragile for their advertized purpose.

That said, I have been seeing vintage, 40+ year old, wide mouth carboys at some of the local thrift and vintage shops. I had previously passed on them, but they are starting to look pretty handy. So let it be known that there are older, US-made large opening glass vessels out there.

Well, you just gave me a reason to keep dropping into thrift shops. Not that I need much of an excuse anyway....

I generally make a beeline for the kitchen knife bins. It's almost always a waste of time, but a couple of years ago I scored an excellent Sabatier chef's knife for a quarter - and the clerk apologized for having to charge me the two cent sales tax.

Last winter I picked up an old 5 gal oil can; the kind that makes a great gas can. It has a decent sized cap for filling, plus a pour spout on the other side, and the cap on the spout has a smaller cap on it for pouring into small openings. That one I had to pay forty bucks for because it was in an antique store, but it's been worth every penny.

Of course I promptly destroyed its value as an antique, by scrubbing years of oily grime off it and repainting it so it won't rust in the back of my pickup....