Big Beer is Bad!

[mjdonnelly68]

Just kidding - wanted to get your attention:

It's great for all of us that the quality and character of beers has gone through the roof. But there is a down side to the 'race to the top' as brewers chase increasingly bigger beers.

Let me start by saying that I'm not worried about the people on this site. We are all students of beer and therefore better prepared for the new beer frontier.

That being said, I know a ton of folks who also love beer but do not take the time to learn about beer. Many times I see them drinking beers that are much larger than they are used to, and getting themselves into trouble because of it. As craft brewers get better at their craft, the big beers become more and more drinkable. Time was when you drank an 8% beer, you immediately knew you were drinking an 8% beer. But as anyone who has had a Pliny can attest, high ABV beers are no longer the punch in the face they once were. This is a great thing for beer lovers, provided they know what they are getting themselves into.

My brother owns a bar with 32 beautiful beers on tap. He goes out of his way to bring his patrons the newest and most interesting beers out there. As a result, lots of folks come to his pub to discover new beers. This is great for craft beer and the craft beer loving public, but it also means that folks are not developing the relationships they once had with their favorite pints. I know my Guinness so I know my limits. I can't say the same about the latest offering from Stone or Surly. The math gets foggier as I jump from pint to pint trying what's new on tap. Trouble is a brewin'.

I'd love to see the craft beer and bar and restaurant industry get ahead of what could be a burgeoning problem. I'd love to see them adopt voluntary guidelines to ensure that beer lovers are more aware of the beers they are loving. I would like to suggest a simple first step: I'd like to see all draft beers over 7.5% dispensed in 12oz glasses (instead of pints or imperial pints). This would tell anyone ordering the beer that they're onto something bigger than a Bud Light. It would also slow down the folks who like the new beers, but haven't had a chance to get to know them.

What do you guys think? Would you support some sort of voluntary limit on big beers.

 

[ArcaneXor]

Around here, most high ABV beers are served in snifters already, mostly because that's the appropriate glassware for many of those styles, but probably also to keep the prices reasonable (if there is such a thing as reasonable prices at a beer bar...) Some of the beer bars have the ABV clearly written on the menu or draft board for everyone to see. So based on my perspective, there is no need to adopt any industry-wide initiatives because the industry seems to be doing just fine doing this already.

That said, while I love the occasional big beer, I prefer to enjoy those at home. When I am out at a beer bar, I want to have flavorful & sessionable beers in the 3.5 to 6% range so that I can have two or three without having to sit around sipping on water for two hours to sober up and drive home.

 

[Zamial]

What do you guys think? Would you support some sort of voluntary limit on big beers.

I say no. The customer should be allowed to ask for a pint or a 12oz glass. "Pint" has become the standard to ask for. (Although I often ask for a 2L boot...)

HOWEVER, I would like to see some educated beer servers (Cicerone anyone?) that can suggest to bar owners and patrons that they have a lighter ABV "Palate cleanser" that is suggested to be had in-between the big beers. Recently I have been trying to do this on my own and it seems to work well. I enjoy a pint of 4-5% beer and then a big beer. I can taste BOTH beers better this way for a much longer period of time and not get so blurry after 3-4 beers.

My friends also seem to like the lower ABV and Imperial mixing better as well. I normally let them sample a large selection of my beers and this keeps me from having a bad case of "lawn angels"

 

[payton34]

a small brewery here in grand rapids posts the abv on their menu. if you can read you know what you are in for

 

[betarhoalphadelta]

There's a local gastropub here called The Playground, and they've got a pretty cool $5 tap menu. Everything on tap is $5. Most "typical" craft beers are pints, and higher-ABV or rare beers may come in 11-oz or 7-oz pours. Awesome idea.

http://playgrounddtsa.com/

But I understand your point. When I go to friends' parties, I often bring a couple growlers of homebrew to share with them, and I'm often drinking their commercial beer. I ended up once bringing a growler of 8.2% ABV Belgian IPA, and the host of the party kept hitting it *way* too hard. I kept trying to tell him that despite what it tasted like, it was rocket fuel...

Let's just say his behavior that night was such that his wife wouldn't let him come out to play for the next few months...

 

[Sloobie]

My local brewpub posts ABV percentages with all of their beers, which is a responsible choice considering there are a lot of 7-10%s in there.

In the UK all beer labels (including taps) clearly show their %ABV. Not only that, but they also display "alcoholic units," which, as I understand it, is essentially the equivalent of about one shot of 40% liquor (or something like that). Beers tend to be 2-4 units. I think the concept of units lends itself to responsible drinking. Who can do the math with ABVs? It's much easier just to count units. I support the idea of industry-wide standards on posting ABVs, but, really, I don't know why they aren't already posting them. It just seems responsible to let the consumer know more about the product.

 

[VTDuffman]

Beyond ceasing to serve a patron who is intoxicated, I don't really favor any system that takes the responsibility away from the drinker. It should be each persons own responsibility to pace themselves and know their own limits.

 

[beergolf]

There is a bar near me that has a lot of good beers on tap. They always post the ABV and some of the big beers are served in smaller portions.

Posting the ABV allows the drinker to decide what is appropriate for them. I often will see a beer on the menu and think that it sounds good and then when I see the ABV, if it is a big beer and I don't want something that big, I make another choice.

 

[thetragichero]

i'm with the 'know your limits' crowd
it baffles me how people can go out and drink so much they get sick
if everyone were responsible for their actions, this wouldn't even be an issue

 

[D_Nyholm]

I do think that abv should be written on the menu so that you will know what you are in for, but I would think that some people may get offended if they expected a 16 oz glass and got a 7 oz tasting glass. Though if they put the abv and then the amount of the pour, it would make sense. They should also start the menu with a 4% Bud Light so people know what to compare to.

This past weekend I saw a Dogfish Head Brown Ale on the menu. I though it was their regular brown ale which I like a lot. I ordered it and recieved a 12% abv brown ale, that while tasted great, really made me slow my drinking for the night! Though I should have just made the assumption since it was a DFH it will be pretty strong!

 

[TheBreweryUnderground]

ABV and IBUs should be listed on everything and bottling dates on the bottles if the breweries/bars care about their beers. Also the beers should come with glass size options, I was real disappointed when I got a 4 oz pour of a barleywine expecting a full pint as I normally only get 1 or 2 drinks when I'm out so I can handle higher ABVs.

 

[mjdonnelly68]

I agree that we should not stand in the way of the amount anyone is drinking (as long as they aren't completely snookered). If I want to head out and try 10 to 12 of whatever's big and meaty - I should be able to (as long as I'm not driving, and no one gets hurt but my poor brain).

I also think listing ABV on the menu would help. Though ABV and IBU may be greek to some drinkers - these are the folks that need a little extra help.

I like the idea of the Alcohol Units. Kind of like the nutritional rating grocery stores use for products. Makes it easy to compare apples to oranges and gives you a standard scale to compare things to.

I'm not looking to curb any freedoms, just looking to give the uninitiated or uninterested a fighting chance.

 

[hercher]

I think you are absolutely right. As a homebrewer and former brewer at a sadly-defunct brewpub, I've watched a lot people enjoy some of my bigger beers, and wind up sloppy drunk because they didn't really understand what they were drinking, despite my cautions regarding the alcohol level.

The bar and restaurant already has some voluntary controls, in that bartenders and servers are supposed to be paying attention to their customers, and not serve people to intoxication. They should be further aware of that because in some states, if a drunk driver gets into an accident, the person and place that served that person can be held at least partially liable.

However, I completely agree that certain beers should be served in smaller glasses. I used to brew a barley wine and an imperial stout at 11% and 10.5% respectively; I insisted, over the objections of the owners, that these be served in brandy snifters. First of all, it limited consumption and therefore intoxication; secondly, I felt the beers could be appreciated better in those glasses.

Places such as your brother's bar could, and should, offer sampler trays featuring new additions to the craft selections. Thus, you could get a tray of 4 or 6 four ounce glasses of beer.

But this also speaks to a pet peeve of mine amongs craft and home brewers: bigger is not always better. As a brewer, I have always found it more challenging to make a quality lighter beer -- because the flavors are not as strong, you have to be more careful not to have any flaws in the beer.

 

[hercher]

And as an aside, the problem with insiting patrons accept responsibility for their own drinking is that once they become intoxicated, even if only slightly so, their judgment becomes impaired. They might think they are fine, when in fact they are not. This is why voluntary limits can be a good idea (as opposed to mandatory limits, which I would oppose).

 

[mjdonnelly68]

Sample flights are a great idea. I love when I can go in a place and sample 5oz of a bunch of different beers. Plus it's great for the bar - you can usually charge more for four five ounce beers in a flight than you can get for a single imperial pint.

I'd like to see more beer bars offer themed, intro flights. Like an IPA flight, a Belgian flight or a Light to Dark flight (with a spectrum of beers). That would be a great way to introduce people to the beers available.

I understand why some bars don't do it though, takes much longer to pour four five ounce pints than to pull one pint and move on to the next customer.

 

[Yuri_Rage]

I support absolutely no legislation or ordnance that would place MORE limits on the craft beer industry, especially with regard to the manner in which the beer is served. Even if the limit is "voluntary." Leave the limits entirely voluntary - i.e., the burden of responsibility is mine, not the pub's or the state's.

However, I wholeheartedly support a pub's decision to serve stronger beers in smaller portion sizes, as is already done in many cases. I also appreciate when ABV is printed on the beer list, in addition to a knowledgeable wait staff who may be advised to politely warn patrons of a particularly strong beer. If a person decides to empty his wallet drinking expensive snifters of imperial stout all night, so be it. There are already laws in place to prevent continued service if he appears inebriated.

 

[DoubleAught]

Rules bad, no new rules

 

[mjdonnelly68]

I support absolutely no legislation or ordnance that would place MORE limits on the craft beer industry, especially with regard to the manner in which the beer is served. Even if the limit is "voluntary." Leave the limits entirely voluntary - i.e., the burden of responsibility is mine, not the pub's or the state's.

However, I wholeheartedly support a pub's decision to serve stronger beers in smaller portion sizes, as is already done in many cases. I also appreciate when ABV is printed on the beer list, in addition to a knowledgeable wait staff who may be advised to politely warn patrons of a particularly strong beer. If a person decides to empty his wallet drinking expensive snifters of imperial stout all night, so be it. There are already laws in place to prevent continued service if he appears inebriated.

I agree completely. That's why I think some voluntary action on the part of the purveyors of pints would go a long way towards staving off any legislative interference.

As citizens, if we allow ANYTHING to get to the point that the bureaucrats get involved, we're sure to end up with a heavy handed solution that serves no one. I'd like to see everyone police themselves so that we all stay out of the goverment's crosshairs.

 

[microbusbrewery]

I'm a 100% advocate for personal responsibility, especially when it comes to drinking. The problem is we live in a litigious society and almost anytime something bad happens someone is looking to cash in and point the finger of blame at one deep pocket or another.

If I owned a brew pub I'd probably do as a couple of other posters suggested and serve higher ABV brews in smaller glassware (e.g. a snifter). I think that's kind of part of being a responsible and ethical owner. Whenever we have guests over, I always make it a point to let them now the ABV on the beers I have on tap. I would support industry guidelines/recommendations when it comes to serving size and ABV. I would not support legislated limits because I think government already has too much say in our daily lives.

 

[jtakacs]

if RRBC started serving pliny in 12 oz. glasses, there'd be a revolution.

 

[Fizzycist]

I'm with you all about no regulation on serving, but there is an excellent small brewery here in Idaho Falls (Idaho Brewing Company) who specifically serves his big beers in wine glasses. I asked the brewer why and he said he was actually worried about people who would come in and have their "normal" number of beers then drive off, not realizing their delicious scotch ale was 8%,not the 5% they are used to with BMC.