BIAB equipment alterations

[TxNative]

So I plan on brewing my first BIAB batch in the next two weeks or so. And I have been reading up on it pretty avidly so that I know all of the bases I need to cover for an AG brew.

Everything seems fairly straight forward, but I do want to alter a few things when it comes to equipment to make life easier. One of which is just simply setting up hoist with a ladder and a cut piece of 2x4. But my question is regarding this link https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f11/my-ss-biabasket-tribute-greenmonti-259347/

This guy is eliminating the bag by just using another pot with a mesh bottom. Is the advantage to this that you avoid scorching more, and that you can stir the grains easier? I like the plan and the set up but Im not sure why he is using it.













Also any other equipment "alterations" that would ease the BIAB process, even more so than it already is, please drop a link or something. Like what do yall do to maintain the mash temperature besides throwing a sleeping bag over the kettle?

 

[bobeer]

you're probably right--to keep the bag from scorching.

I biad'ed for a while and it was always a pain to keep the mash temp constant. I didn't have a rig or anything so I would hold the bag to sparge. I only did 2.5-3 gallon batches but it was still a pia to hold that bag and rinse the grain. I found I got better efficiency this way so that's why I put in the extra effort instead of mashing with the full volume.
As far as the mash went I didn't cover my kettle with anything. If it was hot outside I'd stick it out back to hold the temp a little better. If it needed to get back on the heat I'd move it back in onto the stove. It was a very primitive way of brewing, considering how folks brew these days, but I made pretty good beer. I think it's just about experimenting and seeing what works for you and your setup. Just don't be afraid about trying new things or screwing up a batch!
YMMV because everyone is different... Biab is a great way to get into all grain brewing but I wanted to build a mash tun in the end. I find my time is much better spent letting the mash sit so I can go do something else instead of watching/worrying about my mash temp. Maybe if you can nail down a better way than I had, to hold a mash temp, biab will work long term for you.

 

[MotorcycleMatt]

I started with a mash tun and went to biab one vessel brewing.

 

[C-Rider]

I get 80% eff and don't sparge. that's part of the beauty of BIAB, no need to sparge.

 

[SmCranf]

I get 80% eff and don't sparge. that's part of the beauty of BIAB, no need to sparge.

Unless you're brewing a big beer with an inadequate sized kettle!(Like I seem to do alot)

 

[DurtyChemist]

Unless you're brewing a big beer with an inadequate sized kettle!(Like I seem to do alot)

So it isn't the BIAB process it's your equipment.


I BIAB using a keggle. I have tried every way I can think of with water measurements and additions and I'm settling on using a mini fridge shelf and full water volumes. I've seen batch to batch consistencies and hit 77% efficiency in the kettle and only been able to transfer 5.5 gallons of clear wort. The math drops efficiency when you tell it you have 5 gallons instead of 6.

KISS method. Spend the extra money on brewing more batches first and figuring out how simple it can be. I base my success on 70% efficiency because lots of 'cooler' guys hit 70% and brew great beers.

 

[RM-MN]

First things first. Get your grains milled fine for BIAB because the bag allow you to have the grains milled fine as you don't need to worry about keeping the husks intact for filtering since the bag does that.

Secondly, if your grains are milled fine, don't worry about stirring and the bag. I use a whisk to stir the grains into the water....once. The don't need to be stirred again and I've never had a problem with the bag even when I did stir a second and third time...and I didn't gain anything by that extra stirring.

Third, don't worry about the bag scorching. Insulate your pot and let the temperature fall if it will because if you got the grains milled fine the conversion will be done before the temperature falls enough to matter and the beta amylase will be denatured so you don't have that to worry about. Your beer won't attenuate extra because of the temperature drop.

Fourth, following a recipe that is intended for 65 to 70 percent efficiency is a good idea for your first BIAB batch. Once you have had to drink a beer the has 7% ABV when you intended 5%ABV you can adjust the recipe to better reflect your efficiency which is mostly dependent on the quality of the milling. With the fine milling that I keep mentioning, you are likely to hit about 80% with no sparge. Keep good notes on what the recipe expects for an OG and what you achieved so you will have an idea of how much to adjust for your subsequent batches.

 

[TxNative]

Awesome replies guys, appreciate the knowledge. One common thing Ive read time and time again is to have those grains milled FINE. So ill make sure to have my LHBS grind those bad boys into sand if I can. Ill make sure to write up a brief post on my first AG experience.

 

[PGEduardo]

First things first. Get your grains milled fine for BIAB because the bag allow you to have the grains milled fine as you don't need to worry about keeping the husks intact for filtering since the bag does that.

Secondly, if your grains are milled fine, don't worry about stirring and the bag. I use a whisk to stir the grains into the water....once. The don't need to be stirred again and I've never had a problem with the bag even when I did stir a second and third time...and I didn't gain anything by that extra stirring.

Third, don't worry about the bag scorching. Insulate your pot and let the temperature fall if it will because if you got the grains milled fine the conversion will be done before the temperature falls enough to matter and the beta amylase will be denatured so you don't have that to worry about. Your beer won't attenuate extra because of the temperature drop.

Fourth, following a recipe that is intended for 65 to 70 percent efficiency is a good idea for your first BIAB batch. Once you have had to drink a beer the has 7% ABV when you intended 5%ABV you can adjust the recipe to better reflect your efficiency which is mostly dependent on the quality of the milling. With the fine milling that I keep mentioning, you are likely to hit about 80% with no sparge. Keep good notes on what the recipe expects for an OG and what you achieved so you will have an idea of how much to adjust for your subsequent batches.

I can't agree more with this. Here's my $0.02:

1 - Buy a mill and set a fine gap to get near 80% efficiency with full volume mash. If you don't have one yet have the brewstore double crush them and plan for 70% efficiency (I think I hit 75% my first time).

2 - Use a 15 gallon vessel - allows for full volume 5-7 gallon batches for even BIG beers.

3 - Old blankets/sleeping bags work great to insulate the kettle during the mash. I typically only lose a few degrees over a 90 minute mash.

4 - Take really detailed notes and be consistent. My early issues were all related to not having recorded boil-off rates, trub loss, changing kettles, etc. Once you dial it in then make small changes one at a time.

My current issue is finding a way to better filter out trub and get more (clear) wort from the kettle. I'm now looking into hop spiders and other filters for the drain valve.

 

[PGEduardo]

I forgot to add - potentially the best equipment purchase I made specifically for going all-grain is a refractometer. You do not want to be trying to use a hydrometer with steaming hot wort...

 

[SmCranf]

So it isn't the BIAB process it's your equipment.

Yes but it's important not to be so restrictive on what biab is or isn't; especially around folks interested in getting into it that may not have proper equipment. I'll tell you it is a great way to brew, and possible with many variations. I'd rather have people start with hodge podge equipment than not start at all

 

[RM-MN]

I can't agree more with this. Here's my $0.02:

1 - Buy a mill and set a fine gap to get near 80% efficiency with full volume mash. If you don't have one yet have the brewstore double crush them and plan for 70% efficiency (I think I hit 75% my first time).

2 - Use a 15 gallon vessel - allows for full volume 5-7 gallon batches for even BIG beers.

3 - Old blankets/sleeping bags work great to insulate the kettle during the mash. I typically only lose a few degrees over a 90 minute mash.

4 - Take really detailed notes and be consistent. My early issues were all related to not having recorded boil-off rates, trub loss, changing kettles, etc. Once you dial it in then make small changes one at a time.

My current issue is finding a way to better filter out trub and get more (clear) wort from the kettle. I'm now looking into hop spiders and other filters for the drain valve.

Pardon me for chuckling about this but take a look at this thread I posted a week ago.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f244/mash-heresy-tale-3-brew-sessions-519615/

I'm not going to advocate that anyone else tries such a short mash as I did but I found the results to be eye opening. I intend to repeat part of the experiment with a different recipe containing some darker grains to see where that goes.

You may not want to filter out the trub. Clear wort isn't the desired end point, clear beer is and at least one experiment found that the beer that had had all the trub dumped into the fermenter came out the clearest.

 

[TxNative]

Sweet stuff guys, thanks for the input. Just ordered a refractometer off amazon. She should be in by my next brew day. Ill be sure to post something brief about my first AG brew day.

 

[PGEduardo]

Pardon me for chuckling about this but take a look at this thread I posted a week ago.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f244/mash-heresy-tale-3-brew-sessions-519615/

I'm not going to advocate that anyone else tries such a short mash as I did but I found the results to be eye opening. I intend to repeat part of the experiment with a different recipe containing some darker grains to see where that goes.

You may not want to filter out the trub. Clear wort isn't the desired end point, clear beer is and at least one experiment found that the beer that had had all the trub dumped into the fermenter came out the clearest.

I did see that topic (or similar posts) about shorter mash times. I'm still in the "dialing-in" phase myself and use the (potentially wasted) time cleaning out fermenters, etc. Once I get a house recipe dialed in I'll start experimenting myself. I don't doubt anyone's results, just relying on convention for now...

 

[Siberian]

Sweet stuff guys, thanks for the input. Just ordered a refractometer off amazon. She should be in by my next brew day. Ill be sure to post something brief about my first AG brew day.

Keep in mind if you use that to measure final gravity, there's a conversion formula you have to do in order to get FG.

Otherwise, it'll seem perpetually like it's not fermenting.

I use this to do the conversion:

http://seanterrill.com/2012/01/06/refractometer-calculator/

 

[RM-MN]

I did see that topic (or similar posts) about shorter mash times. I'm still in the "dialing-in" phase myself and use the (potentially wasted) time cleaning out fermenters, etc. Once I get a house recipe dialed in I'll start experimenting myself. I don't doubt anyone's results, just relying on convention for now...

I'm not really pushing you to go to much shorter mash times, just offering the possibility for the future if you get tired of the long days. I bought a bottle of iodine to test for starch so I would know when I had full conversion. Two thing about using the iodine for that. One is that the iodine only shows the presence of starch not whether you got the correct mix of fermentable sugars for your beer to have the flavor and mouthfeel you want. The second is that your wort may show conversion but there may still be starches in the grains that could be converted if you wait longer. With the very fine grind I use, I got a negative indication of starch in both the wort and when I scooped up a bit of the grain. Yooper has done it with a coarser milling and found that the grains would always show starch, even after an hour of mashing. I think it is worthwhile to do an iodine test on a few batches so you will know whether you got conversion and if there is still some starch locked up in the grains. I bought a pint bottle of the iodine because that was what was availble. I think I have used up almost.....20 drops. I could keep testing for the next 20 years without running out.

 

[soccerdad]

@TxNative in your OP you talk about a ladder and bag hoist, but you don't mention batch size. In general, with 5G batches (10 to 12 pounds grist) you can just lift the bag and set it on a colander draining to a bucket (or other kettle). Above that quantity, you may indeed want some sort of pully system - just beware of dust or dirt or other crap on the ladder above the kettle.
@RM-MN I am very impressed with what you and others have done with short mash times, but introducing that idea to someone doing a first batch is - strictly in my opinion- a possible disservice. I still get my best results with 90 minutes and others may as well. TxNative - if indeed you use a refractometer, you can check gravity along the way starting at about 30 minutes and just keep going along until you get to a desired pre-boil gravity. Don't fear if it goes 90 minutes.

 

[soccerdad]

Oh TxNative - one other thing. This refers to the post you referenced. It seems to me that folks who use a 'basket' in the kettle (like you find with several versions of Bayou Classic kettles) use the basket with a bag. There are also specific baskets that you can use in place of the bag. Several companies make these .. Arbor Fab is just one .. http://arborfab.com/

 

[RM-MN]

@TxNative in your OP you talk about a ladder and bag hoist, but you don't mention batch size. In general, with 5G batches (10 to 12 pounds grist) you can just lift the bag and set it on a colander draining to a bucket (or other kettle). Above that quantity, you may indeed want some sort of pully system - just beware of dust or dirt or other crap on the ladder above the kettle.
@RM-MN I am very impressed with what you and others have done with short mash times, but introducing that idea to someone doing a first batch is - strictly in my opinion- a possible disservice. I still get my best results with 90 minutes and others may as well. TxNative - if indeed you use a refractometer, you can check gravity along the way starting at about 30 minutes and just keep going along until you get to a desired pre-boil gravity. Don't fear if it goes 90 minutes.

I feel the same way when someone suggests that BIAB needs to go for 90 minutes. Even a moderately poor crush should be done converting in 60. If you are getting better results with 90 minutes, great, but I think you should find someone to do a better job of milling.