BIAB dripping over the sides when lifting.

[Troxs]

So, I've gotten three BIAB batches down with the new setup and I have to say that I do indeed enjoy the simplicity of it. Right now I have a few minor concerns though...

The first: When I lift the grain bag it tends to expand passed the sides of the kettle and drip down the sides of my kettle. Maybe this isn't a huge issue but it is a mess that I'd prefer to avoid if possible. So any suggestions to keep this from occurring would be awesome.

My initial thoughts were to get a basket made. Its just hard to stomach $300 for a mesh basket.

The second is my efficiency (I'm getting ~60%, while my 3-vessel was in the upper 80's). I have tried doing finer crushes and so fourth, but there was a minor increase to about 65% with that. would I benefit from draining some worth and using it to "rinse" the bag after I have it hoisted above the kettle?

 

[doug293cz]

Is your bag custom made to fit your kettle? If the bag is too large, that will make the bulging on lifting worse. Wilserbrewer will make you a custom fit bag for under $30.

Running wort back over the grain won't get any more sugar out, any more than rinsing dishes in the same soapy water they just came out of will get any soap off. You can do a pour over sparge while the bag is suspended over the kettle, but you must use fresh water. You can also do a dunk sparge in a separate vessel. You can even use cold water for either method, but using hot will get you to a boil faster.

Few other questions:

• How big was your grain bill, and what was your pre-boil volume? The higher the ratio, the lower your eff will be.
• When you say finer crush, just how fine are you talking?
• How long do you drain the bag?
• Do you squeeze the bag?
• How well do you stir at the end of the mash?

Brew on

 

[Troxs]

I actually have a Wilser bag, it is supposed to be to spec, but maybe is a tad large. I may get one a bit smaller soon and give it a go.

As for the other questions:

1. I typically average around 34# of grain and start at 16.5-17 Gallons of water for 11.5 Gallons heading into the conical.
2. I've done a double crush from the LBHS, and also had them set the gap to the finest they could set it. The double crush actually seemed to fare better in terms of efficiency.
3. I typically let the bag hang while it is head up to a boil. 20/30 minutes maybe.
4. I squeezed the first, but didn't on the other two batches because I had my pre-boil volume (which I know is the cause for some loss).
5. I don't really stir the end of the mash to much, I'll definitely try to give it a hell of a whirl on the next go round to get a bit more out of it.

 

[wilserbrewer]

With regard to wort spilling over the side of the kettle, in my experience the preferred way to avoid this is to slowly raise the bag allowing it to drain as it is removed from the kettle. A ratchet pulley works wonders as you can monitor the liquid level inside the bag and keep it below the kettle rim. Once a majority of wort has drained, best to remove the bag swiftly. There is a middle zone to be avoided while the bag is halfway out of the kettle.....

Having a large kettle for biab is also a plus, mashing near the rim while possible takes more finesse, and slowly raising the bag a click or two at a time while it drains. Patience is key when removing the bag on my largest batches ....

 

[ch19]

Don't go for a smaller bag - as with many things in life, bigger is better! A bigger bag will allow your mash to make use of the full volume of your kettle. To contain the bag on removal, I use a stainless oven rack and a steamer basket from a smaller kettle. A colander would do the same job. This can sit above your kettle and allow the bag to drain freely. As Doug mentioned, a sparge step will bump up your efficiency. I sparge by pouring cold water through the grain bag. With regular pouring, stirring and squeezing, I usually hit over 80% mash efficiency.

 

[oujens]

I don't have experience with your batch size, but something I discovered was I previously boiled off more than I needed. After reducing my flame during boil and targeting 8-10% boil off, I needed less starting volume which created more room in kettle to drain the bag. I can now lift the bag with my pulley and keep everything from spilling over the sides. I have an 11 gallon kettle for 5.5 gallon batches.

 

[Troxs]

I don't have experience with your batch size, but something I discovered was I previously boiled off more than I needed. After reducing my flame during boil and targeting 8-10% boil off, I needed less starting volume which created more room in kettle to drain the bag. I can now lift the bag with my pulley and keep everything from spilling over the sides. I have an 11 gallon kettle for 5.5 gallon batches.

I reduce my flame to the lowest I possibly can while still holding a boil. The boil off rate is just intense around here.

 

[mongoose33]

It may still be your crush....

For my normal mash tun, I was crushing at about .035. When I started BIAB, Morrey suggested a gap of .020, which I did. Using that, I'm getting virtually the same efficiency as when I used a mash tun.

Takes longer to mill it (I use a Barley Crusher and power drill) but it seems to work.

Another thing is whether your mash temps are correct; normally when using a mash tun, depending on ambient temperature and size of grain bill, I would use strike water at 168-170 degrees. With BIAB, since there's more water, the grain will bring its temperature down less, so I'm using about 158-159.

One more possibility is stirring--you're stirring a couple times, I hope? I stir very well at 15 minutes and then again at 30 minutes, and I work to bring what's low in the kettle to the top, and bring what's on top to the bottom.

Good luck!

 

[Troxs]

It may still be your crush....

For my normal mash tun, I was crushing at about .035. When I started BIAB, Morrey suggested a gap of .020, which I did. Using that, I'm getting virtually the same efficiency as when I used a mash tun.

Takes longer to mill it (I use a Barley Crusher and power drill) but it seems to work.

Another thing is whether your mash temps are correct; normally when using a mash tun, depending on ambient temperature and size of grain bill, I would use strike water at 168-170 degrees. With BIAB, since there's more water, the grain will bring its temperature down less, so I'm using about 158-159.

One more possibility is stirring--you're stirring a couple times, I hope? I stir very well at 15 minutes and then again at 30 minutes, and I work to bring what's low in the kettle to the top, and bring what's on top to the bottom.

Good luck!

Mash temps tend to be on target, these last few were saisons, so the temp was low and long. I haven't been stirring throughout the mash as I should because going from a cooler to the SS kettle I lose quite a bit of heath throughout the mash. (This is my next problem to work out)

 

[oujens]

I reduce my flame to the lowest I possibly can while still holding a boil. The boil off rate is just intense around here.

Gotcha. I've had to partially cover my pot to create a "crescent moon" opening which help to limit the boil-off and maintain a boil at lower heat. DMS is still escaping, so I have not had an issue with that. It seems any extra space you can get is beneficial when it comes to the dripping.

 

[balrog]

The Wilser bag is 2 dimensional and will spread that way when lifted at mash end. You have to raise it a little and just wait no more than 5m for the "top" wort to dribble out/through. Maybe a little help pressing from the wide sides together to get the bag off the kettle's sides then you can raise it up. At least that's what works for me.

 

[pshankstar]

I never had a problem with my Wilser bag with my keggle regarding the wort spilling over the sides of the keggle. I recently upgraded to a 20 gallon SS Brewtech kettle and a new Wilser bag for the SS kettle. The first batch I had the spill over problem. Since then, I just raise the bag in increments. If it is a really large batch, I may need to manipulate the grain some as it gets a little higher. As @balrog mentioned, this is very similar to what I do now. Raise a little, wait, raise a little and wait again, repeat as needed.

Regarding the efficiency I am getting about 74% without any sparging. I have a corona mill, check out the Ugly Junk Corona mill thread if interested, that's where my inspiration came from. I have it set to the tightest setting to get a really good crush. I'm happy with 74% efficiency and use Beersmith to dial in my recipes with my equipment profile. If an extra pound of grain is needed, so be it. What's another dollar or two in grain when I don't need to worry about sparging?

Good luck! Keep at it and you will figure things out to get it where you want your setup to be. Cheers!

 

[doug293cz]

I actually have a Wilser bag, it is supposed to be to spec, but maybe is a tad large. I may get one a bit smaller soon and give it a go.

As for the other questions:

1. I typically average around 34# of grain and start at 16.5-17 Gallons of water for 11.5 Gallons heading into the conical.
2. I've done a double crush from the LBHS, and also had them set the gap to the finest they could set it. The double crush actually seemed to fare better in terms of efficiency.
3. I typically let the bag hang while it is head up to a boil. 20/30 minutes maybe.
4. I squeezed the first, but didn't on the other two batches because I had my pre-boil volume (which I know is the cause for some loss).
5. I don't really stir the end of the mash to much, I'll definitely try to give it a hell of a whirl on the next go round to get a bit more out of it.

For that size grain bill, pre-boil volume of about 13.5 gal, no-sparge, and no-squeeze, I get a maximum theoretical lauter efficiency of 70 - 71%. To achieve that mash efficiency, you would have to achieve 100% conversion efficiency. A 60% mash efficiency would translate to about 83% conversion efficiency, which is kind of low. Finer crush, longer mash, pH control and stirring are things that could improve your conversion efficiency.

Brew on

 

[balrog]

FWIW, Ritebrew is my source; he will double crush; in order to get more consistent temp readings, I dough in, wait 5m lid on then stir to eliminate any temp striation and measure mash in temp; at mash end, I stir to eliminate any temp striation and measure mash out. Maybe the stirring helps more than temp evenness, but I do what I do and do it every time as I chase consistency.

 

[doug293cz]

FWIW, Ritebrew is my source; he will double crush; in order to get more consistent temp readings, I dough in, wait 5m lid on then stir to eliminate any temp striation and measure mash in temp; at mash end, I stir to eliminate any temp striation and measure mash out. Maybe the stirring helps more than temp evenness, but I do what I do and do it every time as I chase consistency.

At the end of the mash it is likely that you have concentrated wort coating and in the pores of the grits. If this situation isn't homogenized by aggressive stirring, then the wort absorbed by the grain bed will be higher SG than the drained wort, so a larger percentage of the sugar would be retained in the wort, lowering lauter (and mash) efficiency.

Brew on

 

[bolus14]

With regard to wort spilling over the side of the kettle, in my experience the preferred way to avoid this is to slowly raise the bag allowing it to drain as it is removed from the kettle. A ratchet pulley works wonders as you can monitor the liquid level inside the bag and keep it below the kettle rim. Once a majority of wort has drained, best to remove the bag swiftly. There is a middle zone to be avoided while the bag is halfway out of the kettle.....
.

+1
I have found if I use a ratchet pulley and pull slowly I don't get any spillover. I start to pull the bad out until the bad is still on the wort by 1 or 2 inches, give it maybe 20-30 seconds to drain then lift a few more inches, wait, and finally lift it quick. I rarely get any wort spilt this way.

 

[violinguy]

FWIW, Ritebrew is my source; he will double crush; .

+1 on Ritebrew.

 

[fragged]

With regard to wort spilling over the side of the kettle, in my experience the preferred way to avoid this is to slowly raise the bag allowing it to drain as it is removed from the kettle. A ratchet pulley works wonders as you can monitor the liquid level inside the bag and keep it below the kettle rim. Once a majority of wort has drained, best to remove the bag swiftly. There is a middle zone to be avoided while the bag is halfway out of the kettle.....

Having a large kettle for biab is also a plus, mashing near the rim while possible takes more finesse, and slowly raising the bag a click or two at a time while it drains. Patience is key when removing the bag on my largest batches ....

While my experience is quite limited, this concisely sums up my learnings with the same problems the OP had.