lowtones84
Well-Known Member
Not having to make a cooler mash tun and have it inside. I'm currently on an indoor brew setup, and doing 3 gallon biab batches is very convenient. Can dial in and customize all kinds of things without much hassle.
Has anyone else noticed that BIAB really isn't a discrete thing anymore?...
...But efficiency takes a hit....
...stick the bag in a mash tun and recirculate through a RIMS tube'. A fantastic method, and works well (I often use the method) but moves even further from the simplicity of traditional BIAB and takes away the advantage of being able to use a very fine crush. I see some BIAB setups that are so blingy they make my homemade 3v system look like a clunker (to be fair, they still don't compare with off-the-shelf 3v systems for blingyness). Again, not really in the spirit of the original BIAB...
...My personal 'dislike' with using a grain bag (and each system has 'dislike(s)') is the messiness of handling the bag.
Absolutely. Full volume, single vessel BIAB.Single vessel BIAB was, and still is, a distinct divergence from its predecessors.
I disagree (but it's really all just opinion) - I think a bag in a cooler mash tun with a RIMS tube has more in common with a typical 2V RIMS than traditional BIAB.Just because it has developed diversity does not negate it being a distinct style.
A well performed fly-sparge gets better than 82-82% efficiency. I can get about 92% lauter efficiency (BH efficiency is a bit irrelevant here because it depends on how much kettle trub you choose to leave behind, which is not a function of the system you mash with) with a slow fly sparge in my keggle system on a 1.050ish beer. Having said that, I normally choose to do a quick and easy fly sparge and accept about 85% lauter efficiency.Only if you do it wrong. With a fine crush BIAB can exceed the efficiency of other methods. I consistently get 82-83% BH efficiency using one pot and a bag with no recirculation, no sparging, and no squeezing.
Definitely. Brewers should setup the system they want based on the pros and cons. But to say (as some have in this thread) that there are no cons to BIAB is not entirely truthful. Whatever system you choose to setup there will be cons. Eg. choose either squeeze the bag (sticky hands with good efficiency) or don't squeeze (cleaner hands but lower efficiency).There are some "BIAB" systems that have added so many unnecessary complications that they do indeed diverge from the original intent of BIAB. But that's ok.
Yep. I'm one of those. That's why I have a few different systems (all homemade) that I like to tinker with!For some folks the attraction of brewing has as much to do with their enjoyment of fiddling with hardware as it does with making beer. There's nothing wrong with that -- as long as they're having fun they're doing it right.
Why on earth would you need to scoop grains out of a vessel rather than just dumping them out as you do with the bucket? Unless of course it's for a batch with grains that are too heavy to carry in the vessel. Of my three systems, I find the cooler mash tun with bazooka the easiest to dump grains and clean - carry it outside by the carry handle, tip grains out and give it a quick rinse with the hose. The bag and keggle are only marginally more work (not enough IMO to make a difference WRT choosing one over another).To dispose of the grains, grab the bag by the top (which is not sticky), and drop it in a bucket. Drape the top of the bag around the outside of the bucket, and tighten the drawstring. Go the the woods or to a garbage bin and turn the bucket over, the bag will invert and empty itself. At that point you can rinse it off and put it away for the next use. To me, that is easier than scooping out grains from a vessel, then cleaning the vessel.
I can't lift and squeeze a bag with 27 pounds of grain plus the water that it absorbed (another 27 pounds). I brew indoors, so no room for a hoist or dripping. For small batches, I can manage it. So one of the disadvantages is for large batches in a normal homebrew setting.
I didn't see anyone address this, so here's my 2 cents:Whenever I hear the ease of cleaning argument in these BIAB debates/discussions, I'm always left wondering how do people who claim cleaning their cooler mash tun is just a quick spray with the hose get the spent grain out of their cooler? For myself, BIAB is easier to clean since the grain is fully drained of all wort (spent grain from a cooler mash tun is a lot more wet by comparison), and I can just flip the bag inside out into the compost/trash and it's done. Using a cooler without a bag like I used to do, I would scoop as much of the spent grain out as possible first (which still left enough grain to make a mess after spraying out the cooler) and then take the cooler somewhere to finish rinsing it out. IME, BIAB is faster, cleaner, and easier regarding the cleaning process. Have I just been doing something wrong with the cooler (no bag) method that is making the process more difficult than it should be?
To me, that is easier than scooping out grains from a vessel, then cleaning the vessel.
And it is the easiest and fastest and cheapest way to get newbies to all-grain brewing in the game.
...scoops, shopvac.....CIP....disassemble... remove the false bottom............its pretty effortless to clean...
Thank you for making my point that dumping and rinsing off a bag that already contains all the grains is a lot easier and quicker than all of that.
Has anyone else noticed that BIAB really isn't a discrete thing anymore? The diversity of systems using bags (calling themselves BIAB) is enormous - a far cry from the original single pot with a bag. Brewer A uses a traditional 'no sparge' method and says BIAB has the advantage of speed, ease and not much cleanup. Fantastic. But efficiency takes a hit. Brewer B....'efficiency is better with BIAB - take the bag out and sparge over the top and give it a good squeeze'. OK, but you've just added a step (and, IMO a messy one). That's good as well, but it's still hard to do step mashes without the need to stir. Brewer C 'but it's easy, stick the bag in a mash tun and recirculate through a RIMS tube'. A fantastic method, and works well (I often use the method) but moves even further from the simplicity of traditional BIAB and takes away the advantage of being able to use a very fine crush. I see some BIAB setups that are so blingy they make my homemade 3v system look like a clunker (to be fair, they still don't compare with off-the-shelf 3v systems for blingyness). Again, not really in the spirit of the original BIAB.
What's my point (tldr)? A bag is nothing more than a manifold/false bottom/bazooka screen. Your system has more to do with the number of vessels, heating method, sparge system etc. than it does the grain filter. BIAB isn't a true group. I know I'll get some hate for saying this, which is OK.
FWIW, I sometimes BIAB, sometimes use my cooler mash tun with bazooka, and sometimes use my keggle mash tun with false bottom. All three may or may not use a RIMS tube. I decide based on what I'm brewing and how much of it. Brew with whatever you've chosen and be happy with it. My personal 'dislike' with using a grain bag (and each system has 'dislike(s)') is the messiness of handling the bag.
I do about 10 quick scoops, shopvac out the rest, and CIP along with my BK, chiller, and HERMS coil at the end of the brew day. The only thing I disassemble is my Mash tun dip tube to remove the false bottom to clean under it - otherwise its pretty effortless to clean. Getting the grains out is about the same amount of effort as dumping the bag and then cleaning it to get all the grain particles off, maybe even slightly easier
Don't you then have to clean the shop vac?
I think realistically we are talking about maybe a percent gain in yield here (1 pint of 1.02 density wort, out of a total of 5 gallons at 1.05 density).
...So efficiency is improved about 4% by squeezing the bag...
What bag? Is it a bag that was separated from the wort a few seconds ago? Or is it a bag that has been fully drained by gravity, hanging over the kettle for a full hour during the boil?
In the latter case there will be nowhere near 1/2 gal (8 cups) left in the grain. It's closer to 1 cup.
To me that one cup is definitely not worth the sticky mess of squeezing.
It was posted on here a while ago that hanging the bag for the hour gets roughly halfway between an immediate draining and a good squeeze. I'm not sure how accurate that is...
Depends on the heat source. I added heat when i used induction cooktop with no ill effects, and since then upgraded to Blichmann ULWD boil coil and I run my heat the entire mash with the bag resting on the coil and it does not scorch or burn.I haven't tried it yet, but from what I have read Step Mashing is a bit more complicated with BIAB. You don't want to apply direct heat to the grain bag and adding hot water could easily throw your numbers off. I'm pretty much going to avoid it unless it's absolutely necessary.
Is there a great deal to be gained stabilizing mash temp, over letting it ebb 2-4 degrees? Any difference in taste? I say there is little evidence to suggest it does. Brulosophy experiments suggest I am correct.Conversion is not a simple thing that is done once it's done. I think this is an oft-stated half-truth among homebrewers.
First of all, at lower mash temps where beta amylase is the primary worker, conversion takes much longer than with alpha amylase at higher temps. So it's not enough to state a fixed period of time like 20 minutes for how long conversion takes. It's entirely dependent on the temperature.
It is true that all starch may be converted to sugars after a given period of time. But enzymatic activity is still occurring in the wort. A mash that drops in temperature over an hour or more experiences further breakdown by beta amylase of the long chain dextrins created by alpha amylase. In this way, a mash that cools precipitously can produce a far more fermentable wort, and hence a higher ABV end product than desired.
Beta amylase does not denature like a light switch at higher mash temps. It is a gradual process. So as the temperature drops, any beta that hasn't denatured is continuing to work.
Now in the end, none of this really matters that much unless you are aiming for a particular result in the fermentability of the wort. Mashing is really quite forgiving in the end. But this is why some brewers obsess over temperature control, and others just relax and have a homebrew.
Is there a great deal to be gained stabilizing mash temp, over letting it ebb 2-4 degrees? Any difference in taste? I say there is little evidence to suggest it does. Brulosophy experiments suggest I am correct.
Why you feel more mixing important? I do it once or twice during mashes. My grains all look fairly well suspended, so I give it little further thought. Think it helps much?I start with a temperature of 72'C so when it drops to 62'C I warm up a bit. I don’t think beer would be any better if the temperature was stable. More frequent mixing is more important.
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