Travis H
Active Member
Looking to get back into doing some brewing again. Just wondering 3 vessel or BIAB system. Is there any real benefit to the 3vessel systems?
BIAB vs 3 vessel setups
- Thread starter Travis H
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Biggest down side to BIAB is having to lift the bag/basket. If you have a spot for a pulley it's a non-issue.
For the space and cost savings of AIO, 3 vessel is becoming uncommon. People do love their 3-vessel systesm, though.
What kind of budget are you on? For 5 gallon <$1000, the anvil/brewzilla are good. Bobby at brewhardware.com has a neat setup more in the <$1500 range that's worth taking a look at. (You need a pump and controller.)
I use a little 120V brewzilla. The time to boil isn't great, but otherwise I'm enjoying it vs my old setups. Kegland has a lot of neat accessories like a bluetooth thermometer.
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Travis H
Active Member
I am looking to do mostly 5-7 gallon batches. But maybe a few 12 gallon batches
I am looking to stay with propane system for heat
I went from a 3 vessel to an AIO and I am struggling with efficiency issues and stuck mashes which I never really suffered with on the 3 vessel system. Growing pains I know. I am currently running a Spike solo with 220V. Not a lot of commercial propane AOI's out there that I have seen, but I am sure they exist.
If you have a 6/8ft ladder you hook your pulley to that over your boil kettle.
redrocker652002
Well-Known Member
I am in kinda the same boat. I have most of the parts for a DIY 3 vessel system, but my BIAB is so convenient and takes very little room to do in the garage. I use a propane burner, a 10 gallon kettle with a ball valve and a banjo screen. I have added a cooler for my sparge and dump my grains from the bag into the cooler with 170 water and leave it in there for about 15 to 20 mins. I dig the look of the 3 vessel setup, but my BIAB has given me some good beers and now that I have my process pretty dialed in I can hit my numbers give or take a few points. The only drawback I have found is I am not comfortable doing step mashes yet as the temp control can be a bit tricky with the propane. I have been looking into converting my kettle into an electric setup, but then I have to get a controller and all of the, which I am just not ready for. The AIO units, as far as I know, allow you to do step mashes and play with the temps, as well as setting them to go off early so your strike water is ready to go when you get up. For now though, I enjoy my BIAB setup and will continue with that.
MapleGroveAleworks
Well-Known Member
I couldn't imagine going back to propane after buying my Anvil Foundry. BIAB - no sparge, minimal cleanup. Not worrying about propane and all the space everything takes up. I can knock out a brew in 3.5 hours and don't have to babysit anything. I shudder looking back at missing a mash temp on propane and having to heat up some boiling water hoping I can adjust properly the first time. Nightmare. Now I just press a button and go sit back down.
agentbud
Well-Known Member
I also have the Brewzilla 120v and was not happy with the time to boil. My latest addition was one of the Hotrod Heat Sticks that Bobby sells at brewhardware.com. I throw it in when I get ready to boil and it cuts my ramp time to about 1/3 of what it was before. (from 30-45 min down to about 10-15 min). You can also use it for initial mash ramp up. Well worth the cost IMHO.
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Travis H
Active Member
Only issue I have on going to an electric system is I live in a rental and I am not wanting to spend the money to run a 220 plug out to the garage. I have looked at them several times and would really like to go with a system like that but I just cant bring myself to spend the money on that electrical work to be able to use it
McMullan
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I wouldn’t be put off by lack of 220v power supply. Once at mash and boil, a 110v system is going to be just as fine. Ramping up temperature is just going to take longer. No big deal breaker. Just time management.
Do you have a 220 volt outlet anywhere? How far is it from the garage? You can buy or make an extension cord.
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Travis H
Active Member
No 220 in the house at all that I have found. When moving in I even looked all around for one
No dryer? OK. Then maybe look at a dual voltage AIO and use a heat stick to supplement the element until you move?
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Travis H
Active Member
Efficiency will certainly drop with an AIO, no sparge setup (68% BE for me). I too had issues with a stuck mash but no longer. The solution for me was to LET THE MASH SETTLE (after mixing) undisturbed for 10 minutes or so before recirculating. Once you do begin the recirculation, open the valve SLOWLY and maintain a relatively low volume flow. This will avoid creating a vacuum that will quickly compact the mash bed. I also add any flaked adjuncts separately and on top of the mash. I no longer need to use rice hulls, even on the thickest of NEIPA's.
redrocker652002
Well-Known Member
I have been toying with the idea of getting one of those. I have a 220 plug in the garage already that I think is still hooked up and the ease and knocking down a few hours on my brew day is enticing, but to be honest, I have not pulled the trigger yet simply because I like being a bit more involved. But, with that said, those AIO units look pretty darn cool.
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Travis H
Active Member
They do look great and I like that its a lot easier to setup and control the temps for things. I am looking to start doing some 10-12 gallon batches. In the past I have done mostly 5 gallon batches, and brew day was only about 4 hours or so to do when using propan.
If you want to do 10-12 gallon batches, you will need 220v. There are Brewzilla and Grainfather AIO systems large enough for 10 gallon batches, but they are 220v systems.
redrocker652002
Well-Known Member
You are able to do a brew day with a propane burner and a kettle in only 4 hours? Wow, my day from start finish including cleanup is in the 5 to 7 hours, but I will admit, I am not the fastest and as the beer pours it tends to slow me down even more. LOL
Get a 15 gallon kettle and BIAB. I can do 12 gal batches with sparging and fermcap. Much easier to clean 1 pot vs 3. And my efficiency doesn't suffer like when using an AIO system.
Pretty sure he does BIAB. Don't know how big his kettle is though.
My brew days run pretty long, but that's mostly because I'm an old fart so I take my time and also take a break whenever I can. I could probably cut it down to <5 hours if I really tried, but that's not really a goal.
Kickass
Well-Known Member
Two things I’ve changed, in order, and couldn’t be paid to reverse.
1. Propane to electric
2. 3v to 1v BIAB.
I’m not saying it’s for everyone and I get there might be logistical issues but its been a godsend for me.
1. Propane to electric
2. 3v to 1v BIAB.
I’m not saying it’s for everyone and I get there might be logistical issues but its been a godsend for me.
My condo association sent out a letter forbidding open flames and propane tanks, soooo, I might be in the same boat. Electric in the garage! (But propane for now, until I get caught lol)
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Travis H
Active Member
I have done mostly BIAB brewing. Mostly 3-5 gallon batches. Currently I have a basic 8 gallon kettle. I am looking at getting a 20 gallon kettle with the ports so I can hook up a pump. I am looking to be able to do 10-12 gallon batches but still do some in the 5-7 gallon batches.
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Travis H
Active Member
No open flames??? How are you going to fix a steak or ribs?
Very sneakily
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Travis H
Active Member
Good answer!!!!!Very sneakily
I would think a smoker, gas grill, etc. wouldn't be considered open flame. Fire pit and propane burner, yes. Seems odd that they mentioned open flames and propane tanks. Makes you kind of wonder . . .
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Travis H
Active Member
True. A smoker an electric pellet feed smoker isnt really a true open flame, so that should be fine. But there again some of these HOA's have some of the most screwed up rules ever.
Like they've been spying on me? Mmmhmmm...
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Travis H
Active Member
Scary
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Travis H
Active Member
Gotta keep an eye out for THE MAN!!!!
I brew ten gallon batches with a 25 gallon kettle. I'd recommend a larger kettle.
These threads are popping up more and more on the forum. If you still want some functionality of a 3 vessel but like the bells and whistles of BIAB, my advice is to get two AIOs. Use one for the mash and one for the boil. Then one can be an HLT too. And later you can utilize the open one for holding chilling water as well. You can lauter away from the grain bag so you do not need to lift the full bag of wet grain. This also allows for some advanced techniques like underletting the strike water into your mash.
Two Anvil Foundrys or two Digiboils would not be that expensive in comparison to what is on the market.
Two Anvil Foundrys or two Digiboils would not be that expensive in comparison to what is on the market.
I never tried 3 vessel because I always read something like 3x vessels equals 3x cleaning {shudder}. As I know how important cleanliness is for good beer, I’d rather produce good beer with less cleaning and a smaller footprint.
I have a spike custom solo BIAB setup I bought from a great dude on this forum. He had it customized to use 2x 110v heating elements, and if 220 is a problem this could be a route for you. Bobby at Brewhardware.com even has Blichmann controllers wired for dual 110. I currently just run 1 through a controller and a second hard plugged or removed for ramp/boil v. temp maintaining. You just have to make sure your elements are plugged into separate circuits which is easily done with a standard extension cord.
I’ve often considered moving to 220 for the extra speed to temp, but with 2x110 I still get something like 3200w of heat so it’s just me wanting to get as efficient as I can with brew time.
I have a spike custom solo BIAB setup I bought from a great dude on this forum. He had it customized to use 2x 110v heating elements, and if 220 is a problem this could be a route for you. Bobby at Brewhardware.com even has Blichmann controllers wired for dual 110. I currently just run 1 through a controller and a second hard plugged or removed for ramp/boil v. temp maintaining. You just have to make sure your elements are plugged into separate circuits which is easily done with a standard extension cord.
I’ve often considered moving to 220 for the extra speed to temp, but with 2x110 I still get something like 3200w of heat so it’s just me wanting to get as efficient as I can with brew time.
Be careful with 2 x 120v elements. 3200w of heat is over the ~2000w normal load of a single outlet panel breaker. Make sure each element is plugged into its own breaker. Just a PSA
Yes, very important here! I brew near the kitchen so one line goes onto that circuit and the other from a separate breaker circuitBe careful with 2 x 120v elements. 3200w of heat is over the ~2000w normal load of a single outlet panel breaker. Make sure each element is plugged into its own breaker. Just a PSA
I've recently told myself to back off on these conversations because they do seem to get a little heated and everyone really wants to defend the choices they've made. I'll be restrained for now.. I couldn't agree more with these two points.
If 12 gallon batches are desired, even occasionally, it's not going to happen on a 120v electric system. Well.... As someone brought up elsewhere in this thread, a system can be built to use two 120v x 1650 watt elements plugged into two distinct circuits, but that's a great solution for 5/6 gallon batches but less so for larger batches. Here's the real world....
5/6 gallon BIAB batch initial strike water heat up:
10/11 gallon version:
I suppose an hour is not the end of the world, but also factor in the ramp up to boil time and the fact that 3300 watts is just barely enough to get 13/14 gallons to a simmer.
If you can work out brewing pretty close to where your main circuit breaker panel is, and don't mind the cost to add a 240v outlet, this is more like it:
Edit: I forgot that there was one customer that just absolutely wanted to stick to 120v because he was always moving (military) and wanted to be able to brew anywhere without always adding 240v circuits. I put THREE 1650w elements in the kettle. It took some interesting element bends at the time, but now I could probably work it out via TC port arrangement.
