Belle Saison yeast

[HB_ATL73]

I need some help with a question on Belle Saison yeast.

I recently brewed up a saison with fresh sage using belle saison yeast.

The recipe I used is the same base recipe that I have made and enjoyed before but i added fresh sage the last 5 min of the boil.

Tasting a sample of the wort tasted great and the aroma and flavor of sage was really there.

I've pulled the first pint about 4 weeks after brewing and the beer is extremely phenolic-with slight medicinal flavor.

I used a second generation belle yeast from a Mason jar from a previous saison about 2 weeks earlier.
This batch fermented out all the way to 1.002 which I've never had happen before with this yeast strain. And interestingly, this generation of yeast that I harvested and stored from this batch continued to ferment in the Mason jar and almost created a mini bomb in my fridge- thankfully I spotted the bulging metal top and tossed it.

My question is could I have had an infection somehow with this yeast? Would that be a reason for it fermenting out so much and for the stored yeast to continue to ferment? Also, I used essentially the same recipe and process on this batch and it came out with some pretty bad off flavors- thoughts?

 

[RPh_Guy]

My question is could I have had an infection somehow with this yeast?

It's possible, but the things you're describing are chacteristic of this yeast strain.

What other off flavors are present besides generic phenolic/medicinal?

 

[bucketnative]

I have never had Belle Saison finish above 1.002 over many batches; it's my go to Saison yeast. I have also used it fresh from the packet and out to generation 3, same performance. I am not sure it was 100 % done fermenting... see below.

Belle Saison is a diastaticus variety of beer yeast. It will eat some sugars that other strains of S. cerevisae will not eat. If you bottled it (or put it in a Mason jar) prior to it finish the ferment completely (and I mean absolutely finished), it will continue to ferment. My typical fermentation with this yeast runs 30 days, because I bottle and I don't want to chance over-pressurizing the bottles while the diastaticus actions continues.

I also find that the Belle Saisons can change quite a bit in the bottle (I know you keg) over the first few months. I find that they are best after about three months. So, I plan for this.

What temperature did you ferment this batch at? I have had some phenolics with Belle Saison, but off the top of my head I can't remember if that was when fermented hot or cold.

 

[HB_ATL73]

It's possible, but the things you're describing are chacteristic of this yeast strain.

What other off flavors are present besides generic phenolic/medicinal?

I dont think I am great at describing things well with a good vocabulary about these things- but I just tasted it again..

Medicinal.. sweet-cloying almost and not what I would expect from a really attenuated beer.. ripe fruit- raisins.

That might not help at all. Maybe I am just not very familiar with the strain but I've never had flavors like this in the past 3-4 batches I've used this yeast.

I'll give it time in the keg. Never know how it can turn out

 

[RPh_Guy]

Medicinal.. sweet-cloying almost and not what I would expect from a really attenuated beer.. ripe fruit- raisins.

Aside from the sweeteness, those are exactly the kind of flavors this yeast is selected to produce. Phenolic and fruity, with very high attenuation.

Sweeteness isn't a flavor produced by microbes. Too low IBU or too much crystal malt or chloride ? You should try adding 50-100ppm of sulfate.

 

[HB_ATL73]

I have never had Belle Saison finish above 1.002 over many batches; it's my go to Saison yeast. I have also used it fresh from the packet and out to generation 3, same performance. I am not sure it was 100 % done fermenting... see below.

Belle Saison is a diastaticus variety of beer yeast. It will eat some sugars that other strains of S. cerevisae will not eat. If you bottled it (or put it in a Mason jar) prior to it finish the ferment completely (and I mean absolutely finished), it will continue to ferment. My typical fermentation with this yeast runs 30 days, because I bottle and I don't want to chance over-pressurizing the bottles while the diastaticus actions continues.

I also find that the Belle Saisons can change quite a bit in the bottle (I know you keg) over the first few months. I find that they are best after about three months. So, I plan for this.

What temperature did you ferment this batch at? I have had some phenolics with Belle Saison, but off the top of my head I can't remember if that was when fermented hot or cold.

Hmm. I guess I've always kegged at about 3 weeks. Maybe it had more room to ferment.

This fermented at 70 deg

I will try this one again with a fresh packet

 

[Franktalk]

It doesn't sound like you did anything wrong with this yeast. It may be that you just don't like it. I stopped using Belle Saison yeast because the phenolics and fusel alcohols would give me a hangover, even after having only two glasses. I switched to Fermentis BE-134, and that gives me the flavors that I like in a saison without the hangovers.

 

[HB_ATL73]

It may be that you just don't like it

well.. I cant say that I don't like it.. I don't like this current beer but Ive made 3 saisons now with this yeast and this is the only one so far.

I'm going to change some things around in the recipe and keep a closer look at ferm temp/etc. before I give up on the strain. Thanks for the advice though I will give the BE-134 a try

 

[HB_ATL73]

Too low IBU or too much crystal malt or chloride ? You should try adding 50-100ppm of sulfate.

That was a concern of mine with chloride. I will probably try this one again with RO water.. Ive been making good beer with my tap water with Camden tablets with no issues for a long time now. The water could be the issue.

And that is a good suggestion ill try increasing the sulfate a bit