Belle Saison - Bubblegum and Banana (Questions)

[bucketnative]

Last year, I stuck with Wyeast 3711 all summer for saisons. This summer, I thought I would try out Belle Saison.

I tasted a saison fermented with Belle Saison ay 85F the other day, and it was full of banana and bubblegum, much like a Hefe Weizen. Not what I expected, but it was an interesting beer to say the least.

At the time of the above tasting, I had a saison batch going with Belle Saison at 72F (yeast rehydrated, 1 packet, 4.25 gal). I thought maybe at the lower temperature I would get that same flavor profile. I just bottled that one yesterday, and it definitely had a banana/bubblegum/clove-ish flavor to it. The main problem with that was that I had used Nelson Sauvin hops, which really seem to clash with those flavors. My fault for switching up two variables at one time.

Granted this is at Day 0 in the bottle, and I am sure the profile of flavor will change as @Revvy might point out: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=73254

I guess, my question really is, "If this is the standard flavor for Belle Saison, and if I am committed to that yeast this summer, what would be the best hop profile to use in saisons?"

I am thinking noble Tettnanger or Hallertauer, or maybe Styrian?

Note, I ferment without temperature control, and try to match yeast to temperature, ingredients to yeast flavor profile.

 

[BargainFittings]

I enjoy the belle saison yeast with noble hops. Saaz works nicely as well.

 

[bucketnative]

Saaz works nicely as well.

Forgot to list Saaz. That along with EKG should probably be added to my short list of hops above.

 

[jesran]

Belle Saison rocks. Never got banana or bubble gum, but that sounds awesome. I usually end up with spicy dry beer with a great mouth-feel. Agree with BargainFittings Saaz bitters, adds aroma, and stays the hell out of the way perfectly with this yeast.

 

[eadavis80]

My first time using Bell Saison I used it with Hersbrucker, which are the only hops in NB's all-grain saison kit. OG was 1.051 and it got down to about 1.005 in five days. I let it go all the way to about 85 degrees. Pitched rehydrated at about 72 ambient temp. I don't know if I like the flavor or not - it's different. I actually get a little bit of almost tart lemon in the beer. We'll see how it progresses in the bottle/more time...

 

[Bosh]

Never got banana and bubblegum from it in the five batches I used it for.

 

[beergolf]

I have used Belle Saison quite a lot and have never gotten bananna and bubblegum flavors. Even fermenting hot.

 

[rwing7486]

+1 on everyone's comments in regards to the no banana and bubblegum flavor. This yeast will leave you with some slight funk, spice, and hint of lemon. I brewed a Mosaic hopped saison with this yeast that turned out amazing. Oh and one thing to add when using this yeast - your FG will be between 1 and 1.005 - its a workhorse yeast both at ale fermenting temps and 90 degrees temps. So plan your grain bill accordingly

 

[bucketnative]

I know people are saying that they haven't gotten those flavors, but I have now tasted them in two brews... the one at 75F (mine) was less pronounced than the one fermented at 85F. I'll be repitching the recovered yeast in a more classic saison recipe with Saaz hops:

7.0 lb Pilsner
1.0 lb Munich
0.5 lb White wheat
0.5 lb Flaked oats

1.0 oz Saaz 60 min
1.0 oz Saaz 15 min

I'll report back in two months or so.

 

[serum]

I've used it once and didn't like it. Seemed kinda plain tasting. Maybe I ought to give it a go now my brewing is a bit better but I wasn't a huge fan of it I have to say.

I got no banana at all, very little sweetness. It was dry but then a bit bland.

 

[Talgrath]

Personally, I use Nelson Sauvin for all my saisons with Belle Saison; it gives it a really unique, dry and wine-like flavor to the beer. When my local shop was out of NS, I've used Citra and also noble hops as folks mentioned.

 

[bucketnative]

Personally, I use Nelson Sauvin for all my saisons with Belle Saison; it gives it a really unique, dry and wine-like flavor to the beer. When my local shop was out of NS, I've used Citra and also noble hops as folks mentioned.

The hop aroma from the Nelson was quite like white wine. But, that seemed to clash with the apparent flavors I was getting from the yeast. I'll report back in a couple of weeks once these bottles have conditioned for a while.

 

[secondbase]

I get a little bubblegum from it, but no banana. I've used it three times and it finishes dry with mostly spice and a touch of fruit. Like another poster mentioned, it's a little boring. It's one of my least favorite saison strains.

 

[bucketnative]

From @moops in another thread:

Then you want to have that bottled yesterday. If it carbs up in time, it will likely have a lot of "green" beer flavors. For saisons, I've found this is usually more banana clove and bubblegum. It will still be drinkable, but the main issue is getting it carbed up that fast.

I think this may be the bubblebum/banana flavors that I got in this batch. I just tried a bottle last night after 10 days of priming, and there weren't really any of the bubblegum/banana flavors left. Maybe just a hint of cloves, but that may have been because I was hyperaware of that flavor when testing.

On another note, not sure I am a fan of Nelson Sauvin, at least not in this recipe.