Belgian Yeast decisions

[TastyAdventure]

I am going to brew a Belgian in 2 weeks and looking for advice on yeast strains and temps

I tried 1762/540 (Rochefort) in 2 batches before and was a little disappointed.
(Rochefort is one of faves)
One got up to about 83 F and had a sharp alcohol taste, the other only got to 76 at peak (pitched at 72, rose to 76 by 24 hours) but still had alcohol taste. Neither had enough of those tasty, classic Belgian phenols and esters.

So I am looking for suggestions for yeast strains, and temps to ferment at for a dark-ish Belgian.

As far as Belgian profiles, I really like Straffe Hendrik Quad, Rochefort 8 and 10, delirium tremens, chimay red and blue.
Beers I found a little lackluster (but still good) were GuldenDraak, westmalle,
I really didn't like Leffe Brown, kasteel donker, and the yeast profile of St Bernardus offerings.
I enjoy tasting lots of dark fruit, medium amounts of spice, very complex, a nice maltyness but with plenty of drinkability.

Here is my grain bill for my upcoming batch: (5gal)
9.5 Munich
.75 Caramunich
.37 melanoiden
.37 aromatic
1 lb dark candi syrup (90 or 180 L)
Not really looking for advice on grain bill, just here FYI)

OG should be 1.060-1.062

I hope that whatever yeast I use here turns out good, in which case i will use the cake for a bigger "quad" or something...

Like I said, I would be using Rochefort 540/1762 but I was disappointed with the 2 times I used it...

Sorry for the long post, just wanted to give you as much info as possible.

Thanks

 

[pmonti80]

With that grain Bill I would suggest Chouffe yeast wyeast 3522 or the wlp equivalent.

 

[HausBrauerei_Harvey]

Did you age the rochefort beers at all. I've recently read brew like a monk and all the breweries do some sort of 'condiitioning' post bottle carbing at about 50F for 6-8 weeks.

I brewed a triple this fall with the westmall yeast, I was excited about it an put it on-tap as soon as it was done/carbed but it tasted very alcoholy. (10.1%).

So I pulled it from the keezer and let is age in the keg in my workshop at ~50F for 6 weeks, and now it tastes like a really high quality triple and all that alcohol flavor is gone.

With that said i've used several different saison strains that tasted great right out-of-the-carboy. perhaps try some saison strains, and i've also heard good things about the Achouffe strain.

 

[TastyAdventure]

Thanks. Yeah I didn't really age my previous Belgians. I fermented by the schedules Brew Like a Monk suggests, max 2 weeks primary, condition for a week at ~50, then bottle.
I started really drinking them around 4 weeks in bottle...

So I know I probably should have let the bottles sit longer. I was surprised by their fermentation schedules in Brew Like a Monk, seemed like a short primary for a high alcohol, high ester/phenol beer... But obviously they know what they're doing

 

[beergolf]

Your experience with 1762 sounds about right. It is the one Belgian yeast that really does not like it hot, especially early during fermentation. It produces fusels easily. I learned this the firat time I used it.

There are several good choices. 3522 was mentioned in a previous post. Nice yeast. a little cleaner flavor than some of the others. But I like it. lot.

3787 is probably one of my favorites. It just can take a very long time to get the last few points of attenuation. It will fool you into thinking it is done and then tick off a few points. If you bottle this yeast too soon you may have gushers.

1214 is nice. It is the chimay strain and it produces a pretty fruity flavor.

I like 1388 in a tripel, but have never used it in a darker brew.

For fermentation temps. Pitch in the mid 60's. Hold it there for a few days and then you can slowly ramp up the temp to the mid 70's to help it finish out. I use this fermentation schedule for all of my Belgians and for me it work very well. You get a lot of flavor without the risk of fusels.

 

[VulgarCelt]

I brew Belgians predominantly:

3522 Achouffe. It's my workhorse. Definitely a go to.
1762 Rochefort. I use this quite a bit in my bigger Belgians.
1214 Chimay. I use this a lot in my xmas beers. Big dark fruit.
1388 Duvel. I have use this on and do enjoy it but far lees than those above.
3787 Westmalle. Its great for big beers and has a lot of fruit when warm.

Now for the fun stuff:

I have made 3 batches of Tripel (#65560) using 3684 Belgian / Canadian (Unibroue). This is a "Belgian'y" yeast for sure. I really love this one atm, but new loves are always the most intense aren't they?

I have made several beers using WLP575. This is a blend of WLP500 (Chimay), WLP530 (Westmalle) and WLP550 (Achouffe). It rocks in a Tripel but it isn't terribly predictable in my experience.

You can get good ester production from any of these strains. The 1214 and the 3787 will certainly give them to you if you ferment on the warmer side. Just be aware that in my experience you will get more fusel alcohol at warmer ferment temps.

Also Belgians, particularly the darker ones, benefit a great deal from aging. I'm actually just now cracking some Belgian Quads I brewed almost a year ago.

 

[VulgarCelt]

for fermentation temps. Pitch in the mid 60's. Hold it there for a few days and then you can slowly ramp up the temp to the mid 70's to help it finish out. I use this fermentation schedule for all of my belgians and for me it work very well. You get a lot of flavor without the risk of fusels.

+1

 

[tehnick]

I like White Labs 530 for Belgians. It's Westmalle yeast. I usually pitch it around mid 60s and let it ramp on its own. It can hit into the high 70s if left alone to do its thing. Also, it can be explosive. Make sure you're prepared for blow off. I always make a starter for it and it will ferment easily up to 12% ABV but you have to make sure your pitch rates are good or you're screwed trying to pitch more yeast in a volatile environment for high ABV.

It will eat through 1.069 and lower gravity beers crazy fast.

 

[TrickyDick]

I like White Labs 530 for Belgians. It's Westmalle yeast. I usually pitch it around mid 60s and let it ramp on its own. It can hit into the high 70s if left alone to do its thing. Also, it can be explosive. Make sure you're prepared for blow off. I always make a starter for it and it will ferment easily up to 12% ABV but you have to make sure your pitch rates are good or you're screwed trying to pitch more yeast in a volatile environment for high ABV.

It will eat through 1.069 and lower gravity beers crazy fast.

Ditto on 530 being explosive.

 

[TastyAdventure]

I like White Labs 530 for Belgians. It's Westmalle yeast. I usually pitch it around mid 60s and let it ramp on its own. It can hit into the high 70s if left alone to do its thing. Also, it can be explosive. Make sure you're prepared for blow off. I always make a starter for it and it will ferment easily up to 12% ABV but you have to make sure your pitch rates are good or you're screwed trying to pitch more yeast in a volatile environment for high ABV.

It will eat through 1.069 and lower gravity beers crazy fast.

Do you just pitch at mid 60's and sit it in a room, no water bath or anything?

 

[TastyAdventure]

So I have a dilemma: I am splitting 10 gallons, 5 will get a Kolsch yeast, which obviously needs the temp control to stay in low-mid 60's.
2 batches of 2.5 gal will get Belgian yeast. I'm wondering how my 2 choices will perform and how the temps will rise sitting in my basement, around 68 F. I will probably set them in a swamp bath.
I am thinking 3522 Ardennes and Chimay 1214
How high and fast do you think the temps will rise? Should I wrap wet towels around them too? Go all out with a fan?

 

[tehnick]

Do you just pitch at mid 60's and sit it in a room, no water bath or anything?

Yeah, it just sits and does its thing. The room is usually a steady 71-73 degrees. I chill the wort to mid 60s, pitch, and let it rip. It will easily ramp itself to almost 80 before the yeast start to slow and then I'll toss the fermentor in the garage to ramp it down since it's about 55-60 in there.

Just recently I realized that I forgot my chiller in Portland while in the middle of a brew. Let the kettle sit for 30 min after flame out, emptied into a sanitized plastic fermentor, threw it in the garage to sit overnight and it was pitch perfect temp. I got lucky. I have a True GDM10 fridge that I'm going to convert into a fermentation chamber with a RPi and Arduino as soon as I can afford the needed parts, and possibly a conical.

TL ; DR

 

[HB_in_Subic]

I have been using Mangrove Jacks M27 Belgian Ale Yeast for my Saisons. It's temp range is 76F-90F. I pitch at 80F and it takes off like crazy! No bad effects. I have been leaving it on my back porch (under roof in shade) for 3 weeks minimum, then bottle condition another three.

 

[TastyAdventure]

Yeah, it just sits and does its thing. The room is usually a steady 71-73 degrees. I chill the wort to mid 60s, pitch, and let it rip. It will easily ramp itself to almost 80 before the yeast start to slow and then I'll toss the fermentor in the garage to ramp it down since it's about 55-60 in there.

Just recently I realized that I forgot my chiller in Portland while in the middle of a brew. Let the kettle sit for 30 min after flame out, emptied into a sanitized plastic fermentor, threw it in the garage to sit overnight and it was pitch perfect temp. I got lucky. I have a True GDM10 fridge that I'm going to convert into a fermentation chamber with a RPi and Arduino as soon as I can afford the needed parts, and possibly a conical.

TL ; DR

What kind of time frame does the yeast ramp up its temp on its own? How long do you hold at top temp before crashing?

And how long do you age before you drink?

 

[DennisinIowa]

Just used WLP400 it has a krausen that just doesn't want to fall out, 4 weeks. Will use something else next time.
D

 

[tehnick]

What kind of time frame does the yeast ramp up its temp on its own? How long do you hold at top temp before crashing?

And how long do you age before you drink?

It will vary. It's generally about 4-5 days before they start to slow. I usually have full fermentation in two weeks max on my 1.090+ Belgians. It really depends on the hydrometer on when I crash. This strain tends to be more aggressive when warmer so I let it drop to between 1.016 and 1.013 before it gets ramped down. This is from 1.085 and above. I don't have to wait as long for lower gravity beers.

For aging, it depends on the style. I will age half of a DSA batch for at least 8 months and keg the rest since it's good young too. I try to double batch that particular recipe. Never lasts long. For others, I don't age them long unless the style will benefit from it. I.E. I never age 1.055 or so Belgian pales. I'll age dubbels, quads, and some trippels. 6mo to 18mo.