Belgian syrup verse making your own - an opinion

[eujamfh]

So this winter I have become enamored with Belgian Quads. Combing the recipes, I am going to make a couple of the famous clones that many members have already duplicated.

I have read many threads on making your own Belgian candi sugar and I know there is a huge cost difference between making your own vice buying the syrup already made.

Although I haven't made one to date, I have come to the conclusion that for me its best to pay for the work that someone else has done to buy the syrup.

I have traditionally been a big IPA fan along the lines of Pliny, Sculpin, West Cost Green flash etc...as in in the hop bill is a huge part of the brewing cost even when buying hops in bulk. I buy grain and hops in bulk, but my recipes routinely are $40 a pop because of the hops.

When running the numbers, it seems to me that striving for a great Quad, I can take a lot of the guess work and experiment out of the one the crucial ingredients - the dark sugar syrup - by buying it.

I know that most brewers are always looking to cut costs, but considering that some of the best quads are $5-10 a bottle, buying the 3lbs of syrup is akin to buying a lot of quality hops for an IPA. That 5 gallon bath is still cheap even if it comes in at $50-60 a batch. Its still a lot less then retail per bottle.

I would be interested in folks that have done both - bought and made their own Belgian syrup. I know each of us puts a different price on doing it all ourselves compared to our time and getting a quality product... but seems to me that if you are willing to accept a $50 cost per batch, then buying the sugar is worthwhile to limit those "its ok but not great" batches.

Thoughts?

 

[ArkotRamathorn]

I guess I have a hard time considering 24 dollars of hops being the same as 24 dollars of caramelized sugars.

The hops I generally couldn't grow the same varieties when it comes to varieties like citra and mosaic. Also I'd have to go and wait an entire growing season for those hops if I could grow them, and may not get the same quality control on those hops. So when I spend 30 dollars on the hops I'm buying quality control and ease of use, and if I didn't I could end up with a beer that could very different (good or bad) when it comes to the hop character.

So far from my experience the candi syrups you buy taste largely the same as the ones you make if the color is very close and it was made with care. The cost difference is much more pronounced with the sugars, 3lbs of sugar will cost me less than a dollar. With practice you can nail the color and caramelization perfect and they taste and smell the same. Yes you get the quality control with commercial options but the homemade sugars can with practice taste and smell the same. So the 24 dollars of commercial brand sugar will cost me about a dollar to make and maybe 45 minutes on brew day to make.

For a quad I could understand purchasing 1lb of the darkest candi syrup and then making the rest of the sugar you need at home if you need more than 1lb of 160 pr higher sugar, but I couldn't justify purchasing all the sugar needed for any belgian style when the homemade stuff is similar enough (unless you are a professional food taster, caramelized sugar is caramelized sugar).

 

[eujamfh]

Fair enough-agree growing hops is a whole other side of the hobby hat although appealing is way to much time and energy when I can readily buy pellets.

Maybe I will make a could batches with the commercial sugar and then make some half batches with homemade and see what I end up with next winter.

I do like experimenting with home brew but also like good consistent brew. In the past I have gone "off script" sometimes with good results...sometimes less then stellar results.

It has all resulted in beer-but some have been better then others.

 

[tagz]

Only way to know for sure is to do a split batch. That said, I tend to think that the process and equipment candi syrup makers use will impact the flavor. And since it's a big part of the profile for this style, I would think it's worth while to pay for premium ingredients, at least for the first few batches.

On a side note, if your batches are costing that much, I would suggest buying grain/hops in bulk and reusing yeast. Then use the savings to buy candi syrup!

 

[LLBeanJ]

With the last quad I brewed (Westy 12 clone) I went with 2 lbs of syrup in a 3 gallon batch. I bought a pound of D180 and made a pound myself in order to do a comparison. The D180 was a bit more complex, but I actually preferred the taste of the homemade syrup. I used both in the brew, but moving forward, I'll be going solely with the homemade variety. The differences in taste between the two were not large enough to justify the cost of the commercial syrup.

 

[beergolf]

I'll take the opposite opinion. It is just my opinion.

I prefer the commercial syrups. CSI makes some great stuff. I brew a lot of Belgians and have made my own syrup and used commercial. I think the flavors are better and more complex with the CSI syrups.

Sure it is more expensive but when you think about what commercial Belgians cost, then a batch you brew up, even factoring in the extra cost for the syrup, is a bargain.

 

[eujamfh]

Only way to know for sure is to do a split batch. That said, I tend to think that the process and equipment candi syrup makers use will impact the flavor. And since it's a big part of the profile for this style, I would think it's worth while to pay for premium ingredients, at least for the first few batches.

On a side note, if your batches are costing that much, I would suggest buying grain/hops in bulk and reusing yeast. Then use the savings to buy candi syrup!

Tagz-my numbers are off. For 5g I am more in the $35-40range. Not sure how my math was working when I originally posted.

I do reuse yeast, but on some temperature dependent styles I have found that my results are less consistent with washed yeast. I also buy bulk grain and hops so I try to maximize the savings where I can.

That stated-your points are certainly appreciated...it's a trade off and there are ways to save in some areas to splurge in others!

 

[Homercidal]

I understand what you mean by justifying the cost of the purchased ingredient vs the quality of a hand made ingredient. However, on the other hand, it appears cost is a concern at some level, or you wouldn't be posting about it.

So I'd like to point out the maybe-not-so-obvious alternative:

Buy a quality syrup and make a batch. Also brew some small batches using homemade syrup and compare. Work to adjust your syrup-making skills until you are able to produce a syrup that you like. You will have a batch of homebrew made with a quality, purchased syrup for comparison, and by brewing small batches you save a little $$ during the experimentation phase.

Of course, not everyone is interested in developing a process or improving their skill set just to save a few dollars, but it might be fun and you might decide you like a particular syrup you made over any of the commercial products.

 

[Schumed]

flavors are different but both really good....I've medaled with a quad using homemade candi syrup and vice versa....homemade is great on ice cream too

 

[Cyclman]

I find my homemade syrup to be as good as or even better than commercial. It took balls the first time I tried to go really dark, but I found the flavors hugely change as you approach the edge of burnt sugar. I just bottled an aged quad, the complexity was very nice. I actually was worried I overcooked the sugar, but the final product wouldn't indicate that, just the opposite.

There's no reason homemade can't be better than commercial- otherwise, as homebrewers we are all just sacrificing quality to save a little money, which wouldn't be worth it to me.

 

[imasickboy]

I think the cost is reasonable. Having said that, I will add that I prefer to make my own. A large part of the reason I enjoy brewing, cooking, smoking food, growing and preserving food, is to do it myself.

Sure, saving some money is great when you can, and this is a great opportunity to do so. But I do it because I like knowing it's MY homemade sugar in there.

 

[30_Ounce]

I have so much stuff to do on brew day that I leave the candi syrup making to the pros. I don't think my NHC gold medal winning Tripel would have been the same if I tried to create the Simplicity syrup myself and I know I couldn't do it twice! I'll always buy CSI's syrups and sugars for my beers. It's just not that expensive in the whole scheme of things...but if you got the time there's nothing wrong with trying it.

 

[orangehero]

On the other hand especially the light syrups can be made extremely quickly and reproducibly. It's almost silly to buy them, almost as much as the soft crystalline and rock sugars. Many an award winning Belgian beer has been made with homemade syrup. Give it a shot, you might be proud of what you get.

 

[ArkotRamathorn]

I am going to put this at the start instead of the end of my post. I know that I could never match a commercial product in repeatability, and I know I would never be able to match it qualitatively either (though when I sip my BDSA and I get all the dark fruit character I expect I question this part). I would never suggest I could do it better than CSI or any other commercial business. I will on the other hand due to the cost difference, take my chances with my own homemade dark sugars. Worst case scenario? I don't get the sugar dark enough, its *still* tasty beer.

The only problem I have with trying to quantify my time making my own dark candi sugar and then trying to say "oh this 45 minutes cost me X amount in labor". I would then *have* to apply that same labor cost to the rest of the brewing process.

45 minutes to make a dark candi sugar, compared to the 5-6 hours on brew day, and then any other cellaring duties post fermentation, and bottling day. Applying a labor cost to the whole ordeal of homebrewing sort of misses the point of homebrewing (just like equipment costs, if you buy 500 dollars of equipment and then put that into the cost of making your first beer, it will seem like "Wow this beer was super expensive", if you put your labor costs into the beers all of a sudden they're not as cheap) Hobbies should be fun and you shouldn't quantify your labor costs (since its not labor, its a hobby).

To buy all the sugar I need for a 5 gallon batch of a BDSA (honestly, Dubbels and BDSAs are the only ones that need the really dark sugars, light blond and invert sugar syrups are incredibly easy to make and take maybe 10 minutes). If I need 2lbs of a dark sugar I have to work at least an hour at my normal job. If I make it myself I can literally dig the costs out of the couch cushions.

 

[tagz]

Yeah, the cost/time savings argument isn't as strong as the quality argument for me. Homebrewers are typically pretty happy to make something from scratch even if it takes extra time.

 

[Vandulus]

This echoes my thoughts exactly. Originally I balked at paying $7 a bag at my LHBS this weekend, but when I look at how much time it would take to make my own, I semi-happily paid the money. For those like myself whose time is at a premium and can afford the added cost, it makes more sense to fork over the $$. For those on a budget with plenty of free time, it's certainly more economical (and maybe fun) to make their own. For now my compromise is to buy the candi sugar on sale.

 

[Homercidal]

This echoes my thoughts exactly. Originally I balked at paying $7 a bag at my LHBS this weekend, but when I look at how much time it would take to make my own, I semi-happily paid the money. For those like myself whose time is at a premium and can afford the added cost, it makes more sense to fork over the $$. For those on a budget with plenty of free time, it's certainly more economical (and maybe fun) to make their own. For now my compromise is to buy the candi sugar on sale.

I've made syrup a couple of times. If I'm making a special Belgian beer these days, it's kind of a "been there, done that" situation, and I no longer feel the need to do it by myself.

I can afford a few extra dollars to make that special recipe more likely to turn out right. And there are a lot of other variable that need my extra attention anyway.

That said, it was fun to cook a medium dark syrup and find it turned out pretty good.

 

[GreenWing]

Gotta side with Homercidal on this one. It's a waste of time.

 

[ArkotRamathorn]

Gotta side with Homercidal on this one. It's a waste of time.

Throwing in an edit at the start: I mean what I say when I say "get the hang of it". I do not in any way mean "get good at it". I know my stove, and the pan I cook it in, and the amount of water I put in each time. So I can put the same amount of sugar (usually 1lb), *just* enough water to dissolve, all in the same pot, and put the stove top to 6 and 1/2, and I can walk away for 35-40 minutes.

To be fair once you get the hang of it you can usually walk away for 50-90% of the heating time. The first 15 minutes are just evaporating water, another 15 minutes it will stay in the "clear" phase, the next 15 minutes it will start to change color, and the last 15-25 minutes is the landing phase and deciding when to stop heating the sugar and freeze it at the color you want.

If I forgot or didn't feel like making the syrup earlier in the week I'll start the sugar boiling and I'll have my malt ground and water measured before I go back upstairs to check my sugar. (This is all if I am making a dark sugar over 80L, any of the lighter sugars I can go full blast on my stove and have them done in 15 minutes) Never had a batch burn or go too far dark for what I needed.

 

[giraffe]

I make my own invert syrup and candi syrups for english and most belgians. But I find the D-180 syrup to be more complex and has a lovely fig note, that my syrups lack. I end up buying d-180 for the quad I make for christmas every year, and using my syrups for more just "keg it and drink it" beers. The difference is small, and probably more so in the finished beer. But for special beers I use the commercial stuff.