Belgian Golden Strong

[EddieTheBrewerLADET]

Making my first one this Monday....is an extended aging period absolutely NECESSARY? I've heard arguments both ways...

 

[philosofool]

In my experience, belgian style ales are better with some aging. I just find that the complex alcohols, phenolics, and esters become more pleasing with some age. This is yeast strain dependent, though. What yeast are you using?

 

[progmac]

I recently made a BGS that I found to be most pleasant after about 8 weeks. My experience was that the yeast fruitiness really took a dive after about 16-20 weeks. This was with a slight underpitch of wyeast 1388 in the low 60s with oxygen and nutrients on days 1 and 2. OG 1.080 including 2 lbs sugar. In its prime, this was one of my best beers to date; revision 2 is in the fermenter now...

 

[daksin]

BGS grainbills are usually extremely simple. Along with tripels, that makes them big Belgians that usually do not benefit from aging. Yeast character will drop off over time. I like mine a bit yeasty.

 

[EddieTheBrewerLADET]

BGS grainbills are usually extremely simple. Along with tripels, that makes them big Belgians that usually do not benefit from aging. Yeast character will drop off over time. I like mine a bit yeasty.

THIS is exactly what I keep hearing....with that said, why do I continue to hear they need to be aged?

 

[EddieTheBrewerLADET]

in my experience, belgian style ales are better with some aging. I just find that the complex alcohols, phenolics, and esters become more pleasing with some age. This is yeast strain dependent, though. What yeast are you using?

wlp500

 

[EddieTheBrewerLADET]

Oh! And here's my recipe...thoughts??? Made this myself.

What would my ABV end up at? Add another LB of table sugar??

6lbs Pale LME
3lbs Pilsen DME
1lb Candi Sugar

Grains (Partial Mash):
10oz Belgian Pilsner
4oz Belgian Aromatic
2oz Carafoam

Hop Schedule:
60min 1oz Cluster
15min .5oz Styrian Golding
0min .5oz Styrian Golding

Yeast
WLP500 via Yeast Starter

Starting Gravity
1.082

 

[Qhrumphf]

Duvel is pitched in the low 60s and risen to the low 80s over 5 days, and then lagered just below freezing for 3 weeks (according to "Brew Like A Monk" at least). You want the beer to finish very dry, so I'd probably up the sugar more than you've got it (up to 15-20% of fermentables), and drop the OG a bit. Simplest solution would be to cut back the extract (and bittering hops if needed) and leave the sugar the same. I'd probably target 1.070-1.075 depending on the strength that you want. But it should finish in the single digits gravity-wise. I don't think anything finishing above 1.010 is dry enough despite style guidelines, but I suppose that's my opinion. But as your recipe is I don't think it will ferment nearly dry enough.

 

[EddieTheBrewerLADET]

Duvel is pitched in the low 60s and risen to the low 80s over 5 days, and then lagered just below freezing for 3 weeks (according to "Brew Like A Monk" at least). You want the beer to finish very dry, so I'd probably up the sugar more than you've got it (up to 15-20% of fermentables), and drop the OG a bit. Simplest solution would be to cut back the extract (and bittering hops if needed) and leave the sugar the same. I'd probably target 1.070-1.075 depending on the strength that you want. But it should finish in the single digits gravity-wise. I don't think anything finishing above 1.010 is dry enough despite style guidelines, but I suppose that's my opinion. But as your recipe is I don't think it will ferment nearly dry enough.

Fascinating info! Thank you.

Should I either cut a lb or so of the extract and add 1lb of table sugar or could I just leave everything the same and THEN add the 1lb of table sugar? I agree on the dryness, however I also want a beer in the 9-10%abv range....Fairly new to this, thoughts?

Also...as for bottle carb, how much sugar should I use? 6oz of table sugar? I like Belgians very carbed and effervescent. Going for that Duvel Champagne quality. Also, if I wanted to go closer to the Duvel Tripel Hop, Could I add an oz or so of cascade or centennial spaced between 60 min and flame out?

 

[Qhrumphf]

Fascinating info! Thank you.

Should I either cut a lb or so of the extract and add 1lb of table sugar or could I just leave everything the same and THEN add the 1lb of table sugar? I agree on the dryness, however I also want a beer in the 9-10%abv range....Fairly new to this, thoughts?

Also...as for bottle carb, how much sugar should I use? 6oz of table sugar? I like Belgians very carbed and effervescent. Going for that Duvel Champagne quality. Also, if I wanted to go closer to the Duvel Tripel Hop, Could I add an oz or so of cascade or centennial spaced between 60 min and flame out?

I haven't run numbers, but if you're using hard rock candi sugar, either save your money and use corn sugar, or buy a clear/blonde candi syrup. They're different products (candi syrup and candi sugar), with the first providing flavor, and the second being an expensive substitute for plain sugar. For this style, corn sugar will be fine.

I would probably cut 1 lb of LME and your candi sugar, and replace them at a 0.8:1 ratio with corn sguar (ie 1.6 pounds of corn sugar). Should keep your OG about the same, put you at 20% sugar, and pull your gravity down <1.010, for almost 10% ABV.

As far as carbonation, assuming 4.5 gallons bottled (ie after typical loss to yeast in a 5 gallon batch), and fermented at 75, 6 oz corn sugar will put you at ~3 volumes of CO2, for 6 oz table sugar closer to ~3.3 volumes. I think that's an appropriate level, but if you want to go higher, if your batch is bigger (say, a 5.5+ gallon batch with 5+ gallons bottled), or if you do push the fermentation higher, you'll need to use a little more than that (maybe 6.5 oz). I would be wary of bottling above 3 volumes in standard beer bottles though. It probably wouldn't be a problem, but IIRC most "standard" longneck beer bottles 3 volumes is the top pressure they're rated for (with a likely safety buffer).

As far as hops, I haven't had the Triple Hop, so no opinions there. I think your original hop bill was good (didn't check the IBUs though).

 

[EddieTheBrewerLADET]

I haven't run numbers, but if you're using hard rock candi sugar, either save your money and use corn sugar, or buy a clear/blonde candi syrup. They're different products (candi syrup and candi sugar), with the first providing flavor, and the second being an expensive substitute for plain sugar. For this style, corn sugar will be fine.

I would probably cut 1 lb of LME and your candi sugar, and replace them at a 0.8:1 ratio with corn sguar (ie 1.6 pounds of corn sugar). Should keep your OG about the same, put you at 20% sugar, and pull your gravity down <1.010, for almost 10% ABV.

As far as carbonation, assuming 4.5 gallons bottled (ie after typical loss to yeast in a 5 gallon batch), and fermented at 75, 6 oz corn sugar will put you at ~3 volumes of CO2. I think that's an appropriate level, but if you want to go higher, if your batch is bigger (say, a 5.5+ gallon batch with 5+ gallons bottled), or if you do push the fermentation higher, you'll need to use a little more than that (maybe 6.5 oz). I would be wary of bottling above 3 volumes in standard beer bottles though. It probably wouldn't be a problem, but IIRC most "standard" longneck beer bottles 3 volumes is the top pressure they're rated for (with a likely safety buffer).

As far as hops, I haven't had the Triple Hop, so no opinions there. I think your original hop bill was good (didn't check the IBUs though).

You are amazing man!!!

Assuming I already bought that lb of rock candi sugar, what would you alter if I want to use it so it doesnt get wasted?

 

[Qhrumphf]

You are amazing man!!!

Assuming I already bought that lb of rock candi sugar, what would you alter if I want to use it so it doesnt get wasted?

In that case, use it. There's nothing wrong with it and it'll fit the style well, it's just needlessly expensive when there are perfectly cheaper substitutes. In that case, keep your 1 lb candi sugar, and just cut 1 lb of LME and add 0.8 lb corn sugar in its place.

 

[EddieTheBrewerLADET]

In that case, use it. There's nothing wrong with it and it'll fit the style well, it's just needlessly expensive when there are perfectly cheaper substitutes. In that case, keep your 1 lb candi sugar, and just cut 1 lb of LME and add 0.8 lb corn sugar in its place.

Would white cane/table sugar be ok??

 

[Qhrumphf]

Would white cane/table sugar be ok??

If that's what you've got, sure. The difference wouldn't be noticeable.

 

[philosofool]

I've been thinking about this one, and here's my recommendation: split the batch if you can. Drink some young and also try conditioning at least a gallons (6 bombers) for six to eight weeks. See what you think. Obviously, you can't do a side by side comparison, but you can take some tasting notes and compare that. It's also a good idea to get an opinion or two from a friend without telling them what you did.

Anyway, conditioning is one of the easiest things to make observation of... or hardest, depending on you patience...

 

[zmanzorro]

I think a lot of this comes down to some experimentation. It's all about the balance between the alcohol heat and the yeast fruitiness. Both will fade with time. If you can, split up the batch and experiment with different lengths of time.