Beginners Brewing Woes....

[jwlubich]

First off, thanks to everyone on here. I have been "lurking" on here and search on here all time for help. This is the place that I have learned most all I know!!

I have brewed 4 batches of beer. The first was a zombie dust clone that was outstanding. Better than the original.
The second was a midwest supplies pumpkin ale. It is just ok. I put too many cloves in it and tried to doctor the recipe with a lot of pumpkin. It is more of a spice beer and not very pumpkin.
The third is a goose island harvest ale clone.
The forth is the caribou slobber.

Here is my problem/question. The first beer was perfect! Second beer was eh... Might have had a hint of high alcohol esters, slight off flavor, and maybe a slight banana smell (maybe). The goose island harvest ale smells and tastes awful. It smells very high in alcohol. My wife says it smells like bad applesauce. The forth is still in the primary (2weeks) and I would say it smells like very strong alcohol also.

So I know this all points to too high temps during fermentation. They do ferment in my basement at 63 degrees. So i suppose I could be getting up over 70 during fermentation. Things that dont make since to me are I lowered the basement temp from 70 to 63 AFTER the first batch. I suppose this would be yeast differences??? My first batch is by far my best and I know i was the least careful. So.... I need to work on either a swamp cooler or a fermentation chamber.

In the mean time..... Is there anything that can be done to make the 3 bad batches better?? The pumpkin is eh... The Harvest Ale is terrible... Slobber is still in fermentator but smells a lot like the harvest ale. Pumpkin and Harvest Ale have been bottled and carbed for at least 2 or 3 months....

Thanks for the help!!

 

[beaston]

63 degrees should be fine so I don't think that should be the problem. Maybe just try some simpler beers and really dial in your process. Also just let those beers with the off tastes sit for a bit. Patience will make a world of difference with all your beers.

 

[RM-MN]

Bring the fermenter to somewhere warmer after the first 5 days in the cool of the basement and see if your beers don't start tasting better. Also, give them at least 2 weeks in the fermenter and 3 would be better.

The bad applesauce is probably acetaldehyde that is an intermediate product of fermentation. More time and warmer temps should make that disappear. That might eliminate the rest of the problems....except for the pumpkin flavor. Some pumpkin ales have no pumpkin in them because most of the flavor is derived from the spices, not the pumpkin.

 

[diodeart]

I agree with beaston. Your fermentation temp seems perfect. Keep it simple to start out, beers like cream ales are easy to brew and delicious. The more grain you can get in your beer the better, imo. My beer got 10 times better when I started all grain brewing. As you get more experienced you'll want to look into yeast starters. Don't forget to give your beer time in the bottle, bad beers can become good over time. Give them a few months. Clean and sanitize like a mofo. Don't get too discouraged, you've got a lot of great beer ahead of you.

 

[jwlubich]

If I warm up the bottled beer to 70 will it help the flavors? Same question about the caribou slobber that is still in primary. Is it too late to warm it up to 70 or so?

 

[RM-MN]

Yeast are biologically active. They have a range of temperatures that they prefer. Yes, letting the beer warm up will make them more active and more likely to clean up the compounds that you find offensive. The reason we suggest you start your ferment cool is that the activity of the yeast produces heat, much more when eating the easy sugars early in the ferment than when the sugars are all gone and they have to break down the intermediate products. The higher temperatures that encourage the yeast to clean up also will tend to make them produce more esters and fusel alcohol during the first part of the ferment. Starting cool and then warming up seems to make the best beer for me.

 

[unionrdr]

Look at this & see if you can more precisely nail down what you're tasting...
http://www.howtobrew.com/section4/chapter21-2.html

 

[jwlubich]

Thanks for the chart. I'll get back to you tonight. My wife has a better idea on the taste I think. Or at least she can describe it better. I say it tastes like s**t. this chart will help.

I turned the heat up to 70 were the primary is. It had been in primary at 63 degrees for 2 weeks. Thanks again for all the advice!!

 

[jwlubich]

Thanks for the chart. I'll get back to you tonight. My wife has a better idea on the taste I think. Or at least she can describe it better. I say it tastes like s**t. this chart will help.

I turned the heat up to 70 were the primary is. It had been in primary at 63 degrees for 2 weeks. Thanks again for all the advice!!

 

[DrunkleJon]

Also, one thing to remember about temps. At peak fermentation the beers temperature can be upwards to 5 degrees or more higher than ambient air temperature.

 

[Darwin18]

You say that your basement is 63F, but how do you really know that? Are you just the setting the thermostat to 63? You're relying on ambient air to regulate your fermentation temperatures which isn't always the best practice. Any room of a home, including the basement, can experience a wide temperature fluctuation over just the course of a day. All the off-flavors that you are describing sound very much like off-flavors derived from fermenting too hot.

There's probably several reasons why your first batch was your best. I'm not sure when you started brewing, but if you brewed the zombie dust clone at a particularly cool time than you may not have had high fermentation temperatures. I honestly suspect it was because it's a highly hopped beer, and lots of hops tend to cover or least mask off-flavors.

Fortunately, this is something that you can address easily. Do a quick search of the site and the internetz for "swamp cooler". It's basic and requires a bit of attention, but it will work. Attention to fermentation temperatures is one of the biggest and most influential aspects to brewing quality and consistent beer.

 

[JimRausch]

Was the harvest ale also spiced? IMO, it's real easy to overdo it with spices like cinnamon, nutmeg and cloves. Fortunately, with time (6 months or more) those overbearing flavors tend to mellow. I did a 'Winter ale' with mulling spices 2 years ago, that was pratically undrinkable until about a year later. Then it was pretty awesome.
However, I do agree with everyone else that high initial fermentation temps would tend to give you that 'rocket fuel' taste. RM-MN has it right- try to get on the cool side during the 1st 2 days, then you can let her warm up. And, keep her in the bucket for an extra week to help the yeasties clean up their(your)mess.

 

[jwlubich]

Another taste test and my wife still says "bad applesauce".

The room in the basement is 63 degrees. That's from 2 thermometers not the thermostat. I was thinking I should be ok at 63 degrees. That's still fermentating under 70. I'll get it a little cooler for the next batch!

I put a heater in my little room and kept it at 70 for a week. I didn't notice any changes in the air lock. It was in the primary for something like 8 weeks. I kept thinking(hoping) it would get better.... It's bottled now. I'll see how it is someday!!

I am brewing in a cheap aluminum pot. It's been used for other things before my homebrewing started. Any chance this could be the problem?

Is a cream ale something easy that I should brew next?

Thanks again for all the help!! I didn't realize I had more replies to my post. I'll be sure to check it sooner. I thought I would get an email when someone commented. Thanks again!!

 

[DrunkleJon]

Another taste test and my wife still says "bad applesauce".

The room in the basement is 63 degrees. That's from 2 thermometers not the thermostat. I was thinking I should be ok at 63 degrees. That's still fermentating under 70. I'll get it a little cooler for the next batch!

I put a heater in my little room and kept it at 70 for a week. I didn't notice any changes in the air lock. It was in the primary for something like 8 weeks. I kept thinking(hoping) it would get better.... It's bottled now. I'll see how it is someday!!

I am brewing in a cheap aluminum pot. It's been used for other things before my homebrewing started. Any chance this could be the problem?

Is a cream ale something easy that I should brew next?

Thanks again for all the help!! I didn't realize I had more replies to my post. I'll be sure to check it sooner. I thought I would get an email when someone commented. Thanks again!!

I find that the most forgiving brews are ones with stronger roasty flavors like stouts. Off flavors will be covered up by all the other flavors of the beer. In my opinion Cream ales are cheap for ingredients and not overly strong so flaws will be a little more noticeable.

Cheap aluminum pot? I have no problem with those, can you smell the odor of previous uses in/on it? if you are getting appley flavors it is probably Acetaldehyde which is formed usually due to stressed yeast. Are you using dry or liquid yeast? If dry, are you rehydrating? If liquid, are you making starters? Are you aerating your wort before pitching your yeast?

I have found in a batch of cream ale I brewed that came out apple cidery that the flavor faded quite a bit by leaving it (a keg) in the fridge for a while. Basically I forgot about it for a month or two.

 

[jwlubich]

I have been using liquid yeast and I have not been making a starter. I put my wort in the bottling bucket and run it from there to the primary to aerate.

Hopefully time will help improve the flavored of my existing brews.

 

[The_Bishop]

Sounds like you need to aerate a little better, and maybe consider a starter.