BeerSmith 3: Here it comes. Thoughts?

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murphyslaw said:
I think that's really a backwards approach relative to how most people use minerals.
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I get that most people just want the software to tell them what they should do for their style. I don't. Actually, I find matching some arbitrary style to be backwards. Consider your pale ale water profile above. You've been told by BS3 to add bicarb soda, because it's needed for the profile. Why? Why are you adding alkalinity to your water, which will then need to be neutralised with acid? You're adding bicarb to sparge water! I want to think for myself with salt additions, not blindly follow a profile. All I want is a quick check that the Ca level is where I want it. I can calculate it in a minute or two, but shouldn't have to.
 
Kosch said:
I bought BS2 a good few years ago, my first using brew software. Thought it was pretty great though the GUI and workflow was pretty horrible. Bought the mobile app specifically for the timers. I took a break from brewing for the last 2 years, just got back into it a few weeks ago and saw the new 3.x version available. I was pretty excited, hoping for new GUI/workflows, but was disappointed to see it the same.

I don't need the new features and I especially don't like the push for subscription-based (I know standalone is available, but still). Also, as many others have mentioned, the BS3 mobile app crashes at the WORST possible time and also doesn't seem to notify if it isn't in foreground, which makes it pretty pointless.
Click to expand...

Very similar story with me. Bought into BS2 four years ago and tried for a while to use the app and the desktop version to document and learn from it. I very quickly realized that the only thing Brewsmith does for you is math. That, and lose your stuff. Mostly your notes and versions of recipes, which you constantly had to rename every time you wanted to re-brew that beer. The cloud is/was a joke. It is just one more place to lose a BeerXML file. Forget syncing or any kind of intelligent management or automation of data.

So you can imagine that I was hoping Beersmith 3 would be a big improvement with such a long development window between my first purchase and now? Nope. Incremental, at best. The correct versioning for this platform is Beersmith v0.0.3.

Here's the reality check: It's 2018. Why do I have to consider "files" and "folders" and "tabs" any more?? Why do I have to pay to access my data or the tool just because I am on a different computer or device? Where is the idiot-proof workflow for new/extract brewers that would help them get to the next level? Where is the integration of digital sensors and any sort of brewhouse automation technology? Where is the next-level use of cloud where the "app" is just a front-end for a web-hosted database/data model that isn't locked into an OS? Where is the intelligent abstraction that differentiates a recipe from a brew session? Where are the insightful interfaces that speed up data entry or add value during a brew session? Definitely NOT in Beersmith 3. If that is you expectation then you need to look into Brewfather, instead.

Where then, are all of our license fees going? Not to the interface or the platform or the "technology", but the marketing and the work he's done on the calculators/algorithms. This is where I am super upbeat on Brad's vision. The math is undeniably what we all benefit from and I'm sure what is at the beating heart of the platform. It was the big advantage from day 1 and still remains key today. I also LOVE the weekly emails with tips & tricks as a new-ish brewer with a lot to learn. I think the podcast is also great and everyone in this industry loves him so he gets the best interviews. This is where my $40-something has gone, and I would pay twice that again to get it. I would pay $400, though, for a modern UX & brewery automation, though. I hope he keeps at it, and I really, really hope he can see the wisdom of partnering with some scrappy developers on this forum to blow up Beersmith and make a new product that is worthy of the brand he's built.

Beersmith, you are like Bud Light. If you tasted good none of us would want to do anything different. Thanks for being the biggest. It's time to make room in the app store for something more...homebrewed.
 
Anyone else hitting low numbers in BS3 comparing to BS2? Same everything AFAIK? I'm about 3 points off the three brews I've done so far.
 
Gnomebrewer said:
I get that most people just want the software to tell them what they should do for their style. I don't. Actually, I find matching some arbitrary style to be backwards. Consider your pale ale water profile above. You've been told by BS3 to add bicarb soda, because it's needed for the profile. Why? Why are you adding alkalinity to your water, which will then need to be neutralised with acid? You're adding bicarb to sparge water! I want to think for myself with salt additions, not blindly follow a profile. All I want is a quick check that the Ca level is where I want it. I can calculate it in a minute or two, but shouldn't have to.
Click to expand...
No, that wasn't my point. That screen shot wasn't a beer I made, I was just trying to help you by showing where to find the final water profile.

My point is this: You say you want to check the Ca level to see if it is where you want it. So you're guessing how much you need, and want BS to tell you if it's right. There's a much easier way. Just tell Bs the mineral levels you want, and it will tell you how much to add.

You don't have to use the preloaded water profiles. I don't. Just creat a custom water profile. You can put in whatever bicarbonate levels you want.
 
day_trippr said:
BS3 3.0.7 for Android is out, but the brew day timers are still broken...
Click to expand...
Hopefully this does it.
Screenshot_20181009-143936_Twitter.jpeg
 
Thanks for posting that, I've had BS on non-automatic-update so I could keep using BS2 on my "new Android device" and noticed yesterday there was another update pending.
Fingers crossed Brad got the BS3 timers working as well as BS2 ;)

Cheers!
 
Following up, the BS mobile version 3.09 for Android did indeed fix the Brew Day timers and I got through today's session with no BS3 issues.

Also, the need to rewrite the timer support also serendipitously fixed the BS2 mobile defect where if you paused a timer the next notification would occur at the original schedule anyway (then when the pause was released it would issue another notification for the same event). Now it appears the notification is sent when it's supposed to happen as opposed to being scheduled in advance.

So, a bonus! Made the wait worth it, imo...

Cheers!
 
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ClearedHot said:
Here's the reality check: It's 2018. Why do I have to consider "files" and "folders" and "tabs" any more?? Why do I have to pay to access my data or the tool just because I am on a different computer or device? Where is the idiot-proof workflow for new/extract brewers that would help them get to the next level? Where is the integration of digital sensors and any sort of brewhouse automation technology? Where is the next-level use of cloud where the "app" is just a front-end for a web-hosted database/data model that isn't locked into an OS? Where is the intelligent abstraction that differentiates a recipe from a brew session? Where are the insightful interfaces that speed up data entry or add value during a brew session? Definitely NOT in Beersmith 3. If that is you expectation then you need to look into Brewfather, instead.
Click to expand...

+1

Well said!. I sampled some of the other tools but bought BS because of the recipe database. At least this once. I have the Linux version which is largely neglected compared to the windows version. Mostly cosmetically.. But I don't like the design and there are several design implementations that has me scratching my head from time to time.

Does anyone know how other tools compare to the database available in BS? I am relatively new to AG brewing.. Until I gain more experience, I am leaning on some of the already posted recipes.
 
I've just posted this in another thread about mash conversion efficiency. It seems that BS3 has some dodginess going on with what it uses for 'mash efficiency' calculations.

After playing around a bit with mash efficiency in BS3, I've realised that it's a piece of crap for calculations. For some reason it uses measured post-mash gravity and measured pre-boil volume to calculate mash efficiency! So, it's actually calculating some bastardised mix of mash conversion and mash lauter/sparge efficiency that is irrelevent (unless you input your pre-boil gravity in to the post mash gravity field, even though there is a separate place for pre-boil gravity). In short, BS3 doesn't calculate conversion efficiency (I'm happy to be corrected if that's incorrect).
 
Gnomebrewer said:
I've just posted this in another thread about mash conversion efficiency. It seems that BS3 has some dodginess going on with what it uses for 'mash efficiency' calculations.

After playing around a bit with mash efficiency in BS3, I've realised that it's a piece of crap for calculations. For some reason it uses measured post-mash gravity and measured pre-boil volume to calculate mash efficiency! So, it's actually calculating some bastardised mix of mash conversion and mash lauter/sparge efficiency that is irrelevent (unless you input your pre-boil gravity in to the post mash gravity field, even though there is a separate place for pre-boil gravity). In short, BS3 doesn't calculate conversion efficiency (I'm happy to be corrected if that's incorrect).
Click to expand...

Post mash gravity will be from right out of the mash tun and pre boil number is with any extra sugars or extract added to the boil kettle. Using top off water will also cause a difference in the post mash number.

That's how it was explained to me anyway.
 
I actually got better numbers on my last brew... Process improvement? Maybe; but I've almost always been a couple points below target prior.
 
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Only issue I have had with bs3 is the ph tool. and since then I've been using the tool and it turns out I may have been incorrect as it's working out ok now. you do have to do some trial runs or have good notes on all of your system losses etc and add them in properly to your equipment profile but after that its great. I like that it's all in one and saves all the ph/salt additions for that specific brewday. Cheers
 
There is not stir plate option inside the recipe when you insert your starter details?
Am I looking in the wrong place for this?
 
cat007 said:
There is not stir plate option inside the recipe when you insert your starter details?
Am I looking in the wrong place for this?
Click to expand...
I'm out of the house right now but as far as I can remember there definitely is a stir plate option that you click the box
 
Does BS3 adjust my required amounts of ingredients based on efficiency or is that up to me/my process? I want to make sure I make the adjustments and not BS3 telling me, "add more XYZ" so I meet my marks.
 
Yes it compensates for your efficiency. but if for example you had built the recipe saved it then decided to change your efficiency number you would see your gravity prediction drop and you would want to adjust that slider back up to the gravity you we're targeting therefore it would increase your grain bill or decrease depending on the situation. Cheers
 
You have to have some idea of the efficiency that you expect you will get. You then enter that on the design page. If you take a recipe that was for a different efficiency the target OG may be high or low. You then have to compensate by increasing or decreasing the amount of grain.

There is an adjust gravity tool. I have never used it. I just tested it and it adjusts the amount of fermentables automatically.
 
Once you know your average efficiency and have that entered, you don't have to adjust if you are making up your own recipe.

If you are doing a recipe that someone else made with different efficiencies, you can use the adjust gravity tool to keep the proportions the same.
 
Oginme said:
On the 'starter' tab within the recipe there is a box to click for using a stir plate.
Click to expand...

It is there only if using a liquid yeast. When using a dry yeast, US-05 for example, the starter and therefore stir plate options all go away....
 
IMO, it is not worth it to make a starter with dry yeast. In the first place a pack of dry yeast has about twice as many cells as a liquid pack. So you don't need more for most average beers. A pack of dry yeast is $5. A starter would be at least $3. So at most you are saving $2

It has been stated that making a starter kills off half of the cells to begin with. If true, your average starter will only get you back to where you started. I am not sure of this, but why take the chance. If it is true you need a larger starter and are not saving anything.

Then there is the nutrient coating that is engineered for the dry yeast cells. If you make a starter you deplete this. So you end up using yeast that is not as healthy, and/or ready to ferment, as just using more dry yeast.
 

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