So I got an email saying the discounted upgrade price of $9.95 is good until July 5th. I already have Beersmith 2 (2.3.12) and assume this $9.95 gets me the upgrade to version 3? Or is that upgrade just a temporary thing? I can't quite figure it all out from the somewhat confusing email. If the upgrade is just temporary and then I have to re-buy Beersmith version 3, then I assume just stay on 2.3.12 bc it does what I need. Please HELP me understand!
BeerSmith 3: Here it comes. Thoughts?
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alestateyall
Well-Known Member
The deal I took was to buy one year subscription to the cloud service for $9.95 which comes with a one year license to BS3. After one year, I either have to pay $14.95 for another year, buy BS3, or loose access to BS3.
So do we know how much BS3 costs for a license? And is there any discount for existing users of BS2 or do we basically have to re-buy the entire license again for BS3?
Actually after going to the checkout page I finally see a good explanation. There appears to be no "deal" or price-break to upgrade from the previous version to the new. I essentially have to pay $24.95 again for BS3. So no thanks. Version 2 works fine as is for me. They need to figure out a way to simply upgrade people once they pay for it and not keep making them re-buy new versions unless it is a actually a complete re-write of the software with significant improvements (ie new GUI, Internet based access, etc).
BS2 was released in May 2011. I wouldn't expect to receive BS3 for gratis 7 years later, but that's just my thinking on the matter.
There is the option of a subscription that will cover any upgrade through that period, minor or major.
You just have to decide what the odds are that BS4 will appear during the subscription period - or if enhanced cloud functions are worth the premiums.
I don't need the BS cloud beyond the minimum, I only use it to move recipes to my tablet and back, and I don't expect to see BS4 for at least 5 years. So going with the one-time license fee seemed right...
Cheers!
There is the option of a subscription that will cover any upgrade through that period, minor or major.
You just have to decide what the odds are that BS4 will appear during the subscription period - or if enhanced cloud functions are worth the premiums.
I don't need the BS cloud beyond the minimum, I only use it to move recipes to my tablet and back, and I don't expect to see BS4 for at least 5 years. So going with the one-time license fee seemed right...
Cheers!
The $9.95 price for a gold subscription is most definitely a "deal" seeing as how the normal price of a gold subscription is $14.95. BS3 is a new re-write and the improvements are well worth it imho.
Keep in mind that eventually support for BS2 will come to an end. If you like it as is and are OK with no future updates then stay with BS2. If you like being able to store only 15 recipes in the cloud stay with BS2 or the one time basic level.
However I found that having the ability to store 125 recipes a big bonus and worth a yearly subscription. That, plus the cloud archive can be a lifesaver. All the changes you make to your recipes are archived automatically. If you make a recipe today that you like then tweak it later but mess it up you can go back to the archive and rescue it.
I find the water tool to be much easier to use in 3 than in 2. Just select your base water... add a target and the additions you need to match that target are added right into your recipe.
I use multiple style guidelines including a custom one that I made for my 1800's beers. In BS2 you can only load one guideline at a time. In 3 you can choose multiple guidelines so I can have BJCP 2015 alongside my custom Victorian Era guideline.
Its a "major" upgrade. Buy the annual subscription if you want to always be on the latest version without "purchasing" it again. This is the subscription model that so many sofware vendors are moving to for a steady revenue stream. Even though I dont *like* it, I dont blame the developers for trying to monetize their IP with at least a degree of protection from the cracks out there.
This is a significant re-write. There are a lot of new features. The GUI could be better but it is much more powerful than BS2. If you want BS3 at a lower price than $24.95, wait a while and look for it on homebrew suppliers sites. One in particular had BS2 significantly less than I from Beersmith. I had BS2 without the extra cloud space, my computer crashed and I lost my saved recipes and about 15 that I had started to formulate but hadn't brewed. The cost of a subscription is not so great that I want to give up the use of the cloud. At least so far.
wrt archiving recipes: one can mirror the BS user folder (on a peecee, typically ...\My Documents\BeerSmith3) to a Google Drive folder and never lose anything...
Cheers!
Cheers!
mpmccann
Well-Known Member
No actually Bru'n Water Is closer to correct, meaning I need to add less lactic acid then BS3 calls for. When I added what BS3 called for my pH dropped below normal range. If I would have added what Bru'n Water called for the pH would not have dropped as low and most likely would have ended up in the 5.3ish range.
dyllaaan
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While a bit of a work around, if you are primarily interested in cloud access to recipes, you can use OneDrive or, presumably, any other storage service and a symbolic link.
I backed up the BeerSmith2 folder out of my Documents directory and placed a copy in my OneDrive folder. Delete the BeerSmith2 directory from Documents then create a symbolic junction* and I now have the recipes, settings, etc. automatically updated between devices and my OneDrive cloud space.
*in command prompt:
I backed up the BeerSmith2 folder out of my Documents directory and placed a copy in my OneDrive folder. Delete the BeerSmith2 directory from Documents then create a symbolic junction* and I now have the recipes, settings, etc. automatically updated between devices and my OneDrive cloud space.
*in command prompt:
mklink /j "C:\Users\[USER NAME]\Documents\BeerSmith2" "[DIRECTORY PATH TO CLOUD STORAGE]\BeerSmith2"
Note, however, that the mobile BS version is unable to load .bsmx files, so using OneDrive or GoogleDrive doesn't completely replace the BS cloud functionality ...
Cheers!
Cheers!
alestateyall
Well-Known Member
Right. I want to have my recipes accessible via both the BeerSmith PC and mobile versions. Only the BeerSmith cloud provides that functionality.
Well I would disagree with the "no deal". I'm not sure what the new retail price will be but I paid $28 seven years ago for BS2. Just adding cost of living increases would put that price well above $25. So I'm guessing this is a 30% to 50% discount over what is list.
That said if BS2 works fine for you then not a lot of push to update. Other than support for a developer who's software you use. I got a lot more value than the $4 a year BS2 cost me. And Brad did a number of updates that fixed issues I had. I assume others had similar issues, but the point is the software had continuing development and bug fixes.
Personally I'm fine with BS2, it does most of what I want and BS3 might not add anything I desperately need, but I bought the upgrade when it was announced because this is software I want to support. I might find I love the changes, but I updated to support the development.
I don't use the cloud except for occasional recipe transfers, and I use this antique thing called a "backup" so I'm not that worried about loosing all my history. But my general workflow is to develop the recipe in BS. Print it out and take notes on brew-day, measurements and the odd substitution, transfer that into my handy BASIC BREWING LOG BOOK and eventually update BS. I use my own software for BRIX to SG conversion (though maybe if BS3 has updated the formula I can do it in BS?), so those are the numbers I enter into the log book.
Convoluted? A bit. The Log book is great for following the year and looking at what I was brewing when, and it has more notes, BS is great for searching and developing recipe's and as a safety backup of the log books.
cat007
Active Member
I can't help but think if the designers of the UI really enjoy using Microsoft Dynamics AX 2012 so modelled off that. It has that look and feel to it. Pretty cheap for a Beer ERP system IMO.
Yeah, I guess my main point is that it still looks and acts the same as an old out of date Windows app from 1995. Don't get me wrong, it still provides value and works well, but this upgrade should have involved some type of web based services and/or a new updated look to the app (not just the toolbar color). As a software developer myself for the last 25 years I've seen plenty of compelling reasons to not fall too far behind the times and I could probably write a book about that. Because I support and like this app, I upgraded to BS3, but it didn't do much of anything for me and I knew that going into it. If the goal was just to keep the small customer base continuing to use and support the application, then mission accomplished I suppose.
I've decided to sit this one out. Maybe I'll buy a new version (again) in the future, when the UI received its well deserved overhaul.
BS2 does what I need it to do, except for whirlpool hop bittering calculations, and putting them in a weird order. I can live with that while I'll create my own empirically derived qualitative whirlpool temp and time tables.
BS2 does what I need it to do, except for whirlpool hop bittering calculations, and putting them in a weird order. I can live with that while I'll create my own empirically derived qualitative whirlpool temp and time tables.
OP
OP
Wow you are SO right!
It was the horror show of a gui that kept me from investing in BS for the longest time. It did not portend well for actual use. The default presentation had all kinds of duplications that made the first impression a mess.
I finally bit the bullet when I finished my latest rig and realized all that stainless steel was going to make strike temperatures a major challenge. Took on the learning curve, forced myself to go through a bunch of simulated brews, finally figured I was good to launch. Very comfortable with it now (though I avoid the obviously flawed tools and use alternatives for them).
That's a daunting scenario for new users to deal with.
But...I don't know that I'd want to relearn it all if it was "fixed"
Cheers!
I finally bit the bullet when I finished my latest rig and realized all that stainless steel was going to make strike temperatures a major challenge. Took on the learning curve, forced myself to go through a bunch of simulated brews, finally figured I was good to launch. Very comfortable with it now (though I avoid the obviously flawed tools and use alternatives for them).
That's a daunting scenario for new users to deal with.
But...I don't know that I'd want to relearn it all if it was "fixed"
Cheers!
mpmccann
Well-Known Member
I brewed my second batch using BS3 on the 4th of July. We'll call it Independence IPA... Anyway, this batch seems to be going a lot better then my first batch did. I still had to use less citric acid then BS3 called for, but I kinda had this amount dialed in from the time I was using bru'n water. Long story short, I know about how much I need to fall into the desired range I was shooting for, my pH meter verified this, and all was good. I also realized that I needed to go back and re-calibrate my PID's and temp probes because I doubled checked my temps with a handheld thermometer, (freshly calibrated) and discovered that my temps were way low like 5 degrees off. I suspect this was the culprit when my gravity came in low during my first brew with BS3. The moral to this story is, these programs are very very good at getting the brewer in the ballpark, but you will always need to tweak them to fit your system and or needs as a brew-master. And never just assume your thermometers are always reading the correct temps because it is easy to become lackadaisical over time like I did. Happy Brewing!!!
Overall, I've never had much of a problem with the interface, and have put BS to good use for nearly 50 brews since I started this hobby in 2013.
Could the GUI use an update? Sure, but it doesn't bother me. The program for me has always provided a great way to build recipes, keep records, and the organization and sequencing that helps out a lot during a brewing session. I haven't tried the updated water treatment section yet, so will probably hang with Bru'n Water for a while yet.
I have been making use of BS for wine and cider almost since day 1, and I really like the better functionality that BS3 provides for these recipes.
As far as the pricing goes, we all like to save money, but imagine how much more money I would have wasted on screwed up recipes and brew cycles without this handy software tool. Definitely worth it for me!
Scottie
Could the GUI use an update? Sure, but it doesn't bother me. The program for me has always provided a great way to build recipes, keep records, and the organization and sequencing that helps out a lot during a brewing session. I haven't tried the updated water treatment section yet, so will probably hang with Bru'n Water for a while yet.
I have been making use of BS for wine and cider almost since day 1, and I really like the better functionality that BS3 provides for these recipes.
As far as the pricing goes, we all like to save money, but imagine how much more money I would have wasted on screwed up recipes and brew cycles without this handy software tool. Definitely worth it for me!
Scottie
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I imagine I've learned this same lesson many times, not necessarily wrt BS, but for some reason I keep having to relearn it periodically.
IMO the GUI if fine and I'm personally glad it didn't get trounced on. I've seen plenty of times where "improvements" killed the experience.
rivetcatcher
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I wish they would add a setting in for hop absorption
Stonemuzzle
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I'm not blown away by the changes, but mead support would be handy and I wouldn't mind keeping all of my recipes in the cloud folder rather than swapping them in and out for brew days. However, I tried getting the Gold subscription and it requires signing up for Paypal, so not going to bother with it.
how does it been compared to brewers friend
Blazinlow86
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Ph adjustments are still off with no explanation on how to correct. Avoid the new version
I'd disagree that anyone should avoid the new version due to pH calculations. Use Brun'Water!
Blazinlow86
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Your missing the point. Of course we can use brunwater. That's exactly what most people were doing with bs2. Then the new version came out advertising about the water tools and alot of people upgraded SPECIFICALLY for that reason and that reason alone. Turns out it's not fixed and the maker of the software doesn't appear to have a explanation. So again don't waste your money on the new version. Use bs2 and brunwater. Hopefully they fix this later on as it seems like it should be a easy fix and in my mind is a very important part of the software. Baffling how it's not being addressed. It could have been the perfect all on one solution but they just can't for whatever reason figure this out. Disappointing to say the least
Dont think I'm missing the point at all. I still dont believe this is reason to not buy the software. If folks don't buy it then further development inst funded and improvements may not happen as a result. I upgraded to support Brad and to be on the latest build. Its a good piece of software that's trusted my many for their recipes. I have no problems using other tools for different parts of the process.
Blazinlow86
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Out of curiosity what features did bs3 have over bs2 for you to upgrade?
"I upgraded to support Brad and to be on the latest build."
Edit: Not to mention that there are new features for Wine, Cider and Mead. Good to have should I decide to make those.
Edit: Not to mention that there are new features for Wine, Cider and Mead. Good to have should I decide to make those.
Blazinlow86
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Interesting. I don't know Brad personally so to buy something just to support him wouldn't be a good enough reason for me to be satisfied with a flawed product. I feel buying something in hopes that will cause the maker to correct flaws in said product is more a tail wagging the dog way to think about it. Somebody said the same thing in the brewie thread. that in there opinion it was best if people kept buying them or didn't return there defective one because if they didn't the company will go bankrupt and breeie would never get it fixed. We all know how that turned out.cheers
PS I really like beersmith but this issue still being there in the new build is unacceptable. If it's a case of "your holding the phone wrong" as Steve Jobs famously said at the iPhone 6 or whatever release at least tell us how to hold it to make it work
I was using the previous version and I really dont need most of the new features, maybe all of them, but I upgrade to the stand alone version anyway. I got my moneys worth out of the previous version so I decided to upgrade before I had to. The price is reasonable for a product that pretty much gets the job the done.
I dont expect any software to be defect free, but I do expect the more you pay the less there should be. At $25 a copy my expectation are pretty low.
"flawed product" sounds like a good nickname.
I dont expect any software to be defect free, but I do expect the more you pay the less there should be. At $25 a copy my expectation are pretty low.
"flawed product" sounds like a good nickname.
I don't know Brad either. But I do listen to his podcasts and use his software and generally appreciate what he does for the community. I dont know any of the open source developers either that I've contributed money to for use of their tools.
You are entitled to your opinion and if pH calculation is what you are after and if it doesn't meet your needs then don't buy it. The tool does way more than that though so for others its a good buy. It works great for me for how I use it. It's $25.00, not $250.00 or more...
Blazinlow86
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I'd love to get my money back but that's not possible. In my case I was so excited to NOT have to use additional software like brunwater I purchased my key the moment it was available for pre purchase. I had activated before it became common knowledge that the ph tool hadn't been fixed. I'd rather Brad just acknowledge that alot of people are having issues with the ph tool and offer some kind of explanation. Either that hes aware it's not working correctly still and WILL correct it or if he disagrees at least explain what the users are doing incorrect so we can use what should be a all in one solution as intended. I don't think that's unreasonable to ask. It could be the perfect all in one solution. Why not just correct this small but very important thing?
OP
OP
I think you can assume that if there is a flaw, it'll get fixed in an update. I wonder why you're suggesting it wont. It was only released about 45 days ago.
Blazinlow86
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because it was like that in the previous version and im unaware of it ever being acknowledged as a flaw 45 days after release. To me ph is a very important part and completes the software. I genuinely hope it's just a flaw or something I'm doing incorrectly as otherwise it's awesome.
What do they say about it over on the beersmith support forum?
Blazinlow86
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Nothing conclusive. Usually gets off track and no solution found or most popular seems to be "just use brunwater".... After researching further I've seen a few responses saying Brad disagrees that there's anything wrong with it to further muddy the waters lol. Cheers
