Beer pours at restaurants (BW3's)

[EdWort]

I just checked one of my German Weissbier glasses filled to the rim. It comes out exactly 23 ounces, but Germans fill them with 16.7 and the rest is foam. Of course it has a line right at 0.5L like it should.

BW3 is using a 23 ounce glass at the rim. I would bet a sixer of Haus Ale on it.

 

[EdWort]

Yuri and the manager had it right.

This is a classic example of why not to try to be a beer snob.

Your glass likely contained 23 oz. and was poured perfectly. If you want a miller lite filled to the brim for cheap, grab a plastic cup and head to your local college keg party. If you want a real beer, go buy one.

Most beers should be poured down the center of the glass for the exact reason the manager quoted to you, it builds the head, releases CO2, and prepares the beer for the perfect drinking experience. In a lot of Europe, a Pilsner is called a 7 minute pils because it takes that long to properly pour a pils. Pour... allow to settle... pour.... settle... top up.

I am impressed BW3's is taking there beer this seriously int he first place. Good for them. I still don't support chains, but good for them.

I disagree. Europe uses proper glasses and sells beer in .25L, .33L, .5L, and 1L amounts and the glasses have proper room for head.

BW3 advertises the full capacity of the glass, yet shorts the customer with foam. It's the oldest trick in the beerman's book to boost profits.

 

[Boerderij_Kabouter]

are they really shorting the pours. I don't know, I just assumed that the glassware was a typical piece of bar ware which is sized to receive head. It seems odd to me that a glass designed for beer would not provide room for head...

Then again, this is just one of my many reasons not to support chain restaurants.

 

[Yuri_Rage]

Out of curiosity, I measured a standard American pint glass. 16 oz came to within 1/8" of the rim. That substantiates Ed's post above, but we still don't have factual data to prove it.

 

[Whiskey]

I disagree. Europe uses proper glasses and sells beer in .25L, .33L, .5L, and 1L amounts and the glasses have proper room for head.

BW3 advertises the full capacity of the glass, yet shorts the customer with foam. It's the oldest trick in the beerman's book to boost profits.

I agree 100% with Edworts comment. The glass in the picture, looks like the same size as a Weizen glass, I'd be willing to bet that it is 23 or 25 oz. This is exactly why in England and Germany you will find a fill line on all glasses.

 

[Beerrific]

I just assumed that the glassware was a typical piece of bar ware which is sized to receive head. It seems odd to me that a glass designed for beer would not provide room for head...

It probably is, but is not being used correctly (before the change and in advertisement). It is probably a "0.5L glass" but when filled to the rim it is 23oz. Why would they sell a glass at 23oz? Such a random amount. When BW3 got them, they filled them to the brim like they always do and said "hell, that is 23 oz., bigger than the normal pour, let's advertise that."

They are advertising 23oz pours and giving you 0.5L (or whatever), that is the problem. They are pouring the beer correctly, but offering misleading advertising.

 

[IrregularPulse]

It probably is, but is not being used correctly (before the change and in advertisement). It is probably a "0.5L glass" but when filled to the rim it is 23oz. Why would they sell a glass at 23oz? Such a random amount. When BW3 got them, they filled them to the brim like they always do and said "hell, that is 23 oz., bigger than the normal pour, let's advertise that."

They are advertising 23oz pours and giving you 0.5L (or whatever), that is the problem. They are pouring the beer correctly, but offering misleading advertising.

This is the assumption we are all making without actually measuring the glass.

Isn't anybody off work and live close to a BW3's?!! Take 23 oz's of water, ask for a glass take a picture

 

[davesrose]

are they really shorting the pours. I don't know, I just assumed that the glassware was a typical piece of bar ware which is sized to receive head. It seems odd to me that a glass designed for beer would not provide room for head...
.

The main thing I've noticed about glassware with chain restaurants is they optimize the height for *perceived* volume: not mixumum aroma or head. So tall glasses tend to be skinner then the better glassware that HTBers collect.

Just going by the "training" pic, you can see the slight difference in volume between the standard pint glass vs this 23 oz glass. Seeing that it's skinnier and has quite a thick bottom, I'd be surprised if the whole glass is much above 23oz of space.

 

[davesrose]

Isn't anybody off work and live close to a BW3's?!! Take 23 oz's of water, ask for a glass take a picture

This begs another fly in the ointment. Are we going to assume every BW3s have the same glassware?

 

[IrregularPulse]

This begs another fly in the ointment. Are we going to assume every BW3s have the same glassware?

I would say thats' safe to say. it's a chain. They don't open a store, then go to the local WalMart and pickup glasses.
They say, Here's you're kit, It comes with 32 buffalo posters, 3 pool tables, a Golden Tee machine and these glasses. Oh and here are you Pre broken-in filthy beer lines. Please don't ever clean them. But that's another thread

 

[Auspice]

This begs another fly in the ointment. Are we going to assume every BW3s have the same glassware?

Every BW3 I've been to in Ohio does. *shrug*

 

[beerkrump]

Yuri and the manager had it right.

This is a classic example of why not to try to be a beer snob.

Your glass likely contained 23 oz. and was poured perfectly. If you want a miller lite filled to the brim for cheap, grab a plastic cup and head to your local college keg party. If you want a real beer, go buy one.

Most beers should be poured down the center of the glass for the exact reason the manager quoted to you, it builds the head, releases CO2, and prepares the beer for the perfect drinking experience. In a lot of Europe, a Pilsner is called a 7 minute pils because it takes that long to properly pour a pils. Pour... allow to settle... pour.... settle... top up.

I am impressed BW3's is taking there beer this seriously int he first place. Good for them. I still don't support chains, but good for them.

And, then you go and try to explain to THIS forum how to pour a beer?

Bad form.

 

[davesrose]

They are advertising 23oz pours and giving you 0.5L (or whatever), that is the problem. They are pouring the beer correctly, but offering misleading advertising.

One other thing I find ironic about this beer geek topic: sure, a case could be made for just filling enough beer to get a good head. But based on pics that I see, it didn't look like they do a 7 minute pour so that you get a nice, lasting head. This is a busy restaurant. They pour the beer to the rim and then hand it to the waiter because of the turn over.

Either way there is no right or wrong. I'm of the mindset that if they advertising 23 oz, they need to give you 23 oz of beer (and if you're looking for great head, then they need to account for that much extra in their glassware).

 

[olllllo]

This is not a new thing.
http://www.denverpost.com/food/ci_12085049?source=bb

Alworth even made The Wall Street Journal last summer, pointing out that if a consumer orders a pint and gets a 14-ounce glass, that's money in the seller's pocket. The rub comes when a tavern or pub promises "a pint," which, as we all learned in fifth grade, is 16 ounces. Unfortunately, there are fewer saloons using a 16-ounce glass. It is more likely to be a sturdier 14- ounce container, commonly known in the business as a shaker or mixer.


...


Charlie Papazian, one of the industry's leading advocates and president of the Boulder-based Brewers Association, has heard it all before. "That issue and that notion about full pints has been around for years." But, he added, "If you're telling people you're getting a pint, you should be getting a pint, not a 14-ounce shaker glass."

 

[olllllo]

I've also read that glass manufacturers are responding to bar requests to add more glass to the bottom to create the illusion of more volume. If I find it, I'll cite it here.

 

[Cincy_Ron]

It probably is, but is not being used correctly (before the change and in advertisement). It is probably a "0.5L glass" but when filled to the rim it is 23oz. Why would they sell a glass at 23oz? Such a random amount. When BW3 got them, they filled them to the brim like they always do and said "hell, that is 23 oz., bigger than the normal pour, let's advertise that."

They are advertising 23oz pours and giving you 0.5L (or whatever), that is the problem. They are pouring the beer correctly, but offering misleading advertising.

I think you're right Beerrific. Looks like I'm going to have to head back for happy hour for some scientific research. A buddy that was with me the other night has agreed we need to get to the bottom of this! :cross:

Not sure how we're going to do it yet, it'd be nice if I could just offer to buy one of their glasses.

 

[davesrose]

Every BW3 I've been to in Ohio does. *shrug*

Well I guess a HBTer from every state should do this experiment so that we see if all BW3s also carry the same glassware as well! From my understanding of franchising, there are varying levels of how much involvement corporate has. Sometimes they try to give the location all the ingredients and supplies from one source....sometimes they don't. Could be Ohio locations can have one source, while Michigan locations have another: only way to truely know is to see.

 

[ytsejam]

Several years ago the was a class action lawsuit in regards to beer pours at some chain.
They were advertising 12oz but serving in 10oz glasses.
I'm not recommending legal action per se, but there is precedent.
Just let me know so I can get in on the suit too.
Maybe we can all score some free glassware or wing sauce or something.

 

[IrregularPulse]

I guess what it all comes down to is.....you're at BW3's drinking a Miller Lite during happy Hour for $3.50. Not your local brew pub enjoying a fine beer for $6-7 bucks. Drink your beer, eat your wings, play your golden tee and pool,, listen to the band, Repeat.

Several years ago the was a class action lawsuit in regards to beer pours at some chain.
They were advertising 12oz but serving in 10oz glasses.
I'm not recommending legal action per se, but there is precedent.
Just let me know so I can get in on the suit too.
Maybe we can all score some free glassware or wing sauce or something.

Put me down for some Spicy Garlic and Asian Zing

 

[EdWort]

I would bet it is a standard $2 Libby glass just like this one.

It's sold as a 23 oz. glass.

 

[Cincy_Ron]

This is not a new thing.
Pint-sized fight brews over short beer pours - The Denver Post

That's awesome. Thanks for the link.

 

[Beerrific]

I think you're right Beerrific. Looks like I'm going to have to head back for happy hour for some scientific research. A buddy that was with me the other night has agreed we need to get to the bottom of this! :cross:

Not sure how we're going to do it yet, it'd be nice if I could just offer to buy one of their glasses.

Just take in a measuring device. Pour the beer right in there when you get it. Make a scene. When it is not 23oz, kindly point to the banner flying over the bar and ask for your additional 3 oz (or whatever).

They key is to be polite, but make a scene. :cross:

 

[IrregularPulse]

Wonder if I can talk SWMBO into BW's tonight. I could throw 23 oz n a bottle into her purse.

 

[olllllo]

Here is the WSJ article from last year:
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB121279252381153273.html

Some restaurants have replaced 16-ounce pint glasses with 14 ouncers -- a type of glassware one bartender called a "falsie."
And customers are complaining that bartenders are increasingly putting less than 16 ounces of beer in a pint glass, filling up the extra space with foam.
Two of the world's biggest glassware makers, Libbey and Cardinal International, say orders of smaller beer glasses have risen over the past year. Restaurateurs "want more of a perceived value," says Mike Schuster, Libbey's marketing manager for glassware in the U.S. Glasses with a thicker bottom or a thicker shaft help create the perception. "You can increase the thickness of the bottom part but still retain the overall profile," he says.

 

[Yuri_Rage]

Playing the devil's advocate:

An American pint glass (the 16 oz variety, not the "falsie" 14 oz'er) holds exactly a pint at the rim (see my post above). If you got a nicely poured glass of beer with about an inch of head, would you be upset about a short pour, or would that pour meet your expectation? After all, you're really only getting about 14 oz of beer.

I found a vague reference that even substantiates the idea that an American pint glass is expected to hold less than 16 oz (150 servings per keg comes out to 13.2 oz per serving). Oddly enough, the guy's complaining about undersized glassware!

Now, someone go measure that BW3 glass so we can get on with the stale Lite beer jokes!

 

[Cincy_Ron]

Just take in a measuring device. Pour the beer right in there when you get it. Make a scene. When it is not 23oz, kindly point to the banner flying over the bar and ask for your additional 3 oz (or whatever).

They key is to be polite, but make a scene. :cross:

Oh! Don't egg me on like this! I'll be picking up a pyrex beaker graduated to the eight of an ounce and a high def video camera!

 

[Cincy_Ron]

Wonder if I can talk SWMBO into BW's tonight. I could throw 23 oz n a bottle into her purse.

Mines down in Fla on vacation right now. Probably flirting with a bartender, or I would have done exactly what you mention...

 

[Sherpa FE]

I guess what it all comes down to is.....you're at BW3's drinking a Miller Lite during happy Hour for $3.50. Not your local brew pub enjoying a fine beer for $6-7 bucks. Drink your beer, eat your wings, play your golden tee and pool,, listen to the band, Repeat.





Put me down for some Spicy Garlic and Asian Zing

And THATS WHAT THEY WANT!
People not to challenge them, or to care, as long as they keep the extra money that you are giving them.
I would just tip them less....OOPS...wrong thread.

Seriously tho....
Look at it this way, you are buying 23 oz of beer.

They only give you 19 oz

They just made .60 cents....per beer

Now you take the fact that they have an extra 4 oz, that you have already paid for, and then they sell that to another person, so they are getting paid twice for the same beer.

Lets go back to the money...
for a cheap beer...its roughly .15 cents per oz.
If they are shorting 4 oz every pour, and 1 person averages 3 beers an hour times that by a night of drinking, by all the people.
it adds up quick...they are ripping you off, plain and simple, whether or not you decide to take it, thats a personal issue and totally up to you.

 

[johnnydrama]

Moderately off topic, do BW3 usually have decent beers on tap? My local sports bar has okay stuff, and there is a BW3 down the road. I'd check it out if they had worthwhile brews.

 

[IrregularPulse]

Then shove that thing down your pants and get going! Might actually get a full pour that way too!

Mine does not have decent beers on tap.

 

[Whiskey]

Playing the devil's advocate:

An American pint glass (the 16 oz variety, not the "falsie" 14 oz'er) holds exactly a pint at the rim (see my post above). If you got a nicely poured glass of beer with about an inch of head, would you be upset about a short pour, or would that pour meet your expectation? After all, you're really only getting about 14 oz of beer.

I found a vague reference that even substantiates the idea that an American pint glass is expected to hold less than 16 oz (150 servings per keg comes out to 13.2 oz per serving). Oddly enough, the guy's complaining about undersized glassware!

Yep I've read that too, an American Pint glass holds a 12oz pour with head, so about 14 oz to the rim.

I use "american pint" glasses at home and they hold a 12 oz bottle with head exactly. Although last I checked an Imperial Pint is right at 20oz.

 

[Cincy_Ron]

Here is the WSJ article from last year:
A Pint-Size Problem - WSJ.com

That article just ticks me off. I'm taking a time out. Be back later tonight.

 

[Yuri_Rage]

In my experience, BW3 boasts a lot of beer on tap, but most of the taps pour different brands of American light lager. Occasionally, they'll have a decent craft/local brew on one or two of the taps.

 

[Boerderij_Kabouter]

And, then you go and try to explain to THIS forum how to pour a beer?

Bad form.

Not the way I see it. This sort of thing happens a lot. People think they know a lot about beer, then start spouting crap that is either mildly incorrect or straight up blasphemy. I don't think the OP went over board and he handled the situation well. I am just saying that unless you are 100% positive you are right about something, you end up looking like a big loser if you call someone or someplace on something and end up being wrong.

Adding information is not snobbish, and I am NOT a beer snob. I do know a lot about beer, but there is no reason in my opinion to ever be snobby about it.

I am in the camp that you are at a wing place ordering a really cheap ML; just drink it and be happy. If that is the way BW3 thinks a beer should be poured it is their restaurant and if they are making that choice I am sure a lot of people are liking it or they would have negative effects and go back tot he old way. Again, if you want a good proper beer, go to a more beer friendly bar.

 

[Yuri_Rage]

Yep I've read that too, an American Pint glass holds a 12oz pour with head, so about 14 oz to the rim.

Almost. A true American pint glass holds 16 oz at the rim. A "falsie" or "shaker" glass holds 14 oz at the rim.

 

[Whiskey]

Almost. A true American pint glass holds 16 oz at the rim. A "falsie" or "shaker" glass holds 14 oz at the rim.

Hmm I'll have to measure my American Pint glasses when I get home. I've probably just never seen a "true" American Pint glass used anywhere.

 

[Homercidal]

Go measure the damn beer so I can find out if you are getting screwed! The suspense is killing me!

 

[Sigafoos]

How did the Honest Pint campaign deal with this? I want 16oz AND a good head... the solution, of course, is to move to the UK. Gordon Ramsay gets to swear there.

Oh, and as for the one time I went to a BW3 (I live in Buffalo, why would I go to a chain? But explain that to my brother in law) about the best they had was Bass or SA.

 

[Boerderij_Kabouter]

The bars I go to are changing for 12 oz. in a standard pint, and if you are buying a special beer of some kind it will often come in an appropriate glass and be poured appropriately. We are lucky in Wisconsin that beer is a big part of our culture so almost everyone takes it seriously.

I still am surprised if this shakes out. Maybe they just haven't updated their signage? Or perhaps they think that "a beer" comprises the whole package of beer, glass, and head?

Either way, I am sad to say, that no matter what we do, they will continue to pour pints as they see fit because they own the restaurant.

 

[ohiobrewtus]

Any respectable establishment that wants to have happy beer drinking customers should buy glasses large enough to fill to the required level plus head. Anything else is just being a cheapass and is done by people who serve and sell beer only as a means to profit, clearly lacking the appreciation for beer that nearly everyone here has.

I've never had this be an issue in a brewpub, only in joints that serve BMC to the masses. Squeeze out every penny since most customers are too stupid to notice.