Beer Belly

[TyTanium]

What is there to debunk about the basic premise of "calories in/calories out".

Unless you can work out a way that humans can violate the laws of conservation of energy then there is no way that the simple statement that if you consume more usable energy than you use you will gain weight can be considered untrue.

I think the point is that calories in & calories out are not independent variables. They each affect the other. Therefore the type of calories you put it affects the calories out. So it's not just about caloric restriction, it's about understanding what causes the "calories out", i.e., metabolism, energy burn, to increase, given a certain level of inputs

 

[TheSlash]

I think the point is that calories in & calories out are not independent variables. They each affect the other. Therefore the type of calories you put it affects the calories out. So it's not just about caloric restriction, it's about understanding what causes the "calories out", i.e., metabolism, energy burn, to increase, given a certain level of inputs

A calorie is a unit of energy, there are no TYPES of calories.

 

[TyTanium]

You know what I meant. Ok, source of calories instead of type. Fat vs carb and impact on metabolism in an isocaloric setting. I read your link that claims to debunk that claim, and frankly, I'm skeptical, but I will read the studies on my own and form my own conclusions.

 

[CGVT]

It is all about insulin production. Excess insulin cases the body to store fat. Excess carbs(sugars) cause insulin spikes and cause the body to store the sugars as fat.

Read Why we get Fat by Gary Taubes.

 

[TheSlash]

It is all about insulin production. Excess insulin cases the body to store fat. Excess carbs(sugars) cause insulin spikes and cause the body to store the sugars as fat.

Read Why we get Fat by Gary Taubes.

Still comes down to either you burned the calories or you didn't.

 

[TheSlash]

Here is your Gary Taubes vs Martin Berkam. Quit trying to make things complex and just count your calories. Unless you have a medical condition it works perfectly fine.

 

[xjmox14x]

Most NFL linebackers ARE obese.

If you're a professional bodybuilder, then BMI doesn't really work for you, and you can ignore it.

Are you a professional bodybuilder? No? Then maybe you should put down the fork and go for a walk.

Obese: Having excessive body fat; excessively overweight.

Silly me


Yes, the BMI index is a GROSSLY simplistic measurement for an individual who has little to no fitness level. However, even for people who are not athletes and/or have minimal fitness training, it is not always accurate. It's almost akin to the airlock debate. Yes, it's bubbling, but that's all it tells you. It doesn't tell you whether fermentation is done, if it has even started, why it's bubbling, what the specific gravity is, etc. It tells you that it's bubbling. Same thing with the BMI index. It does not tell you your body fat percentage, your fitness level, your bone structure and density, your heart strength, or your overall health. It gives you a ratio involving solely your height and your weight. If you are interested in knowing your height/weight ratio for statistical purposes, then great. For anything else, it is utterly useless.

I say this, and it really gets to me, because sure, the definition of "obese" in medical terms is having a BMI greater than 30. But all that tells you is that YOUR BMI IS GREATER THAN 30. It gives you, literally, zero indication of one's health... which is ironic considering that is the whole down and dirty basis of the system to begin with. When people hear "obese", they think of the giant fat person waiting in line at the buffet or at Walmart. You hear about the "obesity epidemic" being used hand in hand with America being fat. It's entirely misleading is my point.

 

[nukebrewer]

Calories in vs. calories out only applies to weight, but most people want to lose fat. That's why you have to consider the source of calories. If you take in mostly carbs you wont lose nearly as much fat as if you feed your body enough protein to maintain or increase your lean muscle mass. Additionally, healthy fats like CLA help to burn additional fat. The science isn't clear on why, but there is known to be a strong correlation between CLA intake and fat loss. Unlike a lot of supplements, the studies done on CLA were conducted using serving sizes that would be practical for the average person to consume.

 

[captwalt]

a calorie is a calorie is a calorie. beer has them. If you want to lose a beer belly consume less calories. people assume that by not eating carbs they will lose wieght but that only works because it is difficult to make up that amount of calories with meat. fat you store simply comes from excess calories you have eaten. if you eat more calories than you use your body stores them as fat. In my experience excersise is a tricky method of losing wieght. If you want to lose wieght watch what you eat, if you want to get fit go to the gym

 

[kombat]

[BMI] does not tell you your body fat percentage, your fitness level, your bone structure and density, your heart strength, or your overall health. [...] I say this, and it really gets to me, because sure, the definition of "obese" in medical terms is having a BMI greater than 30. But all that tells you is that YOUR BMI IS GREATER THAN 30. It gives you, literally, zero indication of one's health.

I disagree. If your BMI is over 30, that tells me that you are carrying an excessive amount of hydrated body fat. It tells me (and insurance companies) that you are at an elevated risk for diabetes, liver diseases, cardiovascular diseases, respiratory diseases, sleep apnea, joint problems, and a host of other ailments.

Show me a healthy/fit person with a BMI over 30.

I don't mean to be disrespectful, but I get so sick and tired of watching people trot out the same, lame excuses for being fat. "BMI isn't perfect! It doesn't work for professional bodybuilders! Therefore it's useless!"

Gimmie a break. Stop making excuses. If you don't believe when BMI is telling you you're fat, then do you believe your doctor? Your mirror? What will it take to get you (I'm referring to the general "you", not you specifically, xjmox14x; I've never met you, you could be the picture of fitness) to admit that you need to lose weight?

The diet/fitness/supplement industry has never been as thriving as it is today, and at the same time, America has never been fatter. We know more and more about what makes us fat, and yet the trend is getting FATTER, not fitter! Why? With everyone swearing by Atkins and Taubes and paleo, TRX, Crossfit, vegetarianism, why do we keep getting fatter and fatter? And why do we keep making excuses?

No, BMI is not perfect. But it's not useless, either. If it says you're obese, and you're not a professional bodybuilder, then I'm sorry, but it's not your "bone structure and density" - it's because YOU'RE FAT.

 

[TheZymurgist]

Just thought I'd share this with you guys. Enjoy.

 

[TheSlash]

^^ BMI is for the everyday lazy joe. I myself am almost obese, with a BMI of almost 28. I am considered overweight. But I'm under 10% bodyfat and all my abs stand out... it's quite funny. When people ask me why I am trying to lose weight, I tell them because I'm overweight. Even though I wear a 28 pant and they wear a 38.

Diet and fitness is thriving because they have given us SUCH BAD advice that we can't possibly be lean with it. BRB drinking my 300 calorie post treadmill shake to replenish the 150 calories I burned because I dont want to eat muscle! Or BRB eating my 6th meal today because I have to keep my metabolism stoked or I'll get fat.

We only need to eat once or twice a day, let your body burn off the food and live off its fat once in a dang while. It is meant to do that. You gorge on a kill, your body stores fat. You can't get a kill for another day or 2, no biggie, your body will use that fat to survive until you do. Its way smarter than we are.

It really is simple. We can definitely get rid of BMI. It should be BF% anyways.

 

[jeepinjeepin]

No, BMI is not perfect. But it's not useless, either. If it says you're obese, and you're not a professional bodybuilder, then I'm sorry, but it's not your "bone structure and density" - it's because YOU'RE FAT.

I agree. At 5'11"-6'0" it puts my "Normal" range at around 135-180 pounds. Granted the lower end is likely geared towards women and the higher end towards men. At 240 pounds I looked bad. At 220 pounds I look better. I'm looking forward to what 200 and 180 look like. Any lower than that and I don't know that I will look healthy. My body frame is suited more so to a heavier build but that doesn't give me free reign to pack on the fat.

 

[TheSlash]

 

[TyTanium]

Diet and fitness is thriving because they have given us SUCH BAD advice that we can't possibly be lean with it. BRB drinking my 300 calorie post treadmill shake to replenish the 150 calories I burned because I dont want to eat muscle! Or BRB eating my 6th meal today because I have to keep my metabolism stoked or I'll get fat.

We only need to eat once or twice a day, let your body burn off the food and live off its fat once in a dang while. It is meant to do that. You gorge on a kill, your body stores fat. You can't get a kill for another day or 2, no biggie, your body will use that fat to survive until you do. Its way smarter than we are.

It really is simple.

Haha, now there I agree with you 100%

 

[TheSlash]

They couldnt possibly say "eat less" or you shouldn't buy our supplements, or anything else that might work because you wouldn't need the next greatest weight loss fad then and they'd be out of business.

You can't bottle and sell "eat less".

 

[xjmox14x]

I disagree. If your BMI is over 30, that tells me that you are carrying an excessive amount of hydrated body fat. It tells me (and insurance companies) that you are at an elevated risk for diabetes, liver diseases, cardiovascular diseases, respiratory diseases, sleep apnea, joint problems, and a host of other ailments.

Show me a healthy/fit person with a BMI over 30.

I don't mean to be disrespectful, but I get so sick and tired of watching people trot out the same, lame excuses for being fat. "BMI isn't perfect! It doesn't work for professional bodybuilders! Therefore it's useless!"

Gimmie a break. Stop making excuses. If you don't believe when BMI is telling you you're fat, then do you believe your doctor? Your mirror? What will it take to get you (I'm referring to the general "you", not you specifically, xjmox14x; I've never met you, you could be the picture of fitness) to admit that you need to lose weight?

The diet/fitness/supplement industry has never been as thriving as it is today, and at the same time, America has never been fatter. We know more and more about what makes us fat, and yet the trend is getting FATTER, not fitter! Why? With everyone swearing by Atkins and Taubes and paleo, TRX, Crossfit, vegetarianism, why do we keep getting fatter and fatter? And why do we keep making excuses?

No, BMI is not perfect. But it's not useless, either. If it says you're obese, and you're not a professional bodybuilder, then I'm sorry, but it's not your "bone structure and density" - it's because YOU'RE FAT.

Not taking it towards me, I hear what you're saying and I appreciate it. My argument isn't that the BMI should be used as a crutch, quite the opposite really. My argument is that the BMI index is a gross generalization that may indicate one is "fat". I don't think people should use what I'm saying as an excuse, and I'm not using it as an excuse for them. I workout regularly, have been in contact sports my entire life, have a bodyfat percentage in the low teens, have regular physicals and am very healthy, and according to the BMI index, I'm borderline between "overweight" and "obese". If you have a high bodyfat percentage and have health concerns because of that, then hell yes, you are obese. But I don't think you need a chart to prove or disprove that. Nor do you need to use what I've argued here as an excuse not to workout because you have some fantasy that you look like Chris Hemsworth, when in reality you look like Chris Farley.

 

[Bumpasourus]

become an ironman tri-athlete - you can eat twinkies all day and drink beer all night and still be jacked like brad pitt in fight club but you might die at 50 of sudden cardiac arrest.

 

[CGVT]

And most people can't maintain "eat less" excercise more, because they are always hungry which causes them to binge.

Eat the right foods and control insulin and you will control you hunger, lose weight and be healthier. The right foods does not include wheat, starches and sugars, regadless of the source.

 

[Bumpasourus]

On another note actually related to the OP - guinness is pretty low calorie relatively and pretty darn yummy.

 

[Yooper]

A calorie is a unit of energy, there are no TYPES of calories.

It is all about insulin production. Excess insulin cases the body to store fat. Excess carbs(sugars) cause insulin spikes and cause the body to store the sugars as fat.

Read Why we get Fat by Gary Taubes.

That's my point.

It's true that a calorie is a calorie- if you're burning energy outside of the human body. Since humans have hormones and the body processes things differently than things happen outside the body, your body doesn't manage calories the way you'd think.

I've done YEARS of research on this, and I used to think the same thing- "a calorie is a calorie", "fat makes you fat", "eat less than you burn to lose weight", etc. But through learning more about insulin resistance, the way the body reacts to sugars (whether complex OR simple carbs), I began to do even more research. It's still not mainstream to believe what I'm saying- but we're getting there.

I went from a high carb/low fat diet (that I followed for about 35 years!) to a high protein/moderate fat/low carb diet and totally transferred my body, my lifestyle, and I eat about twice as much as I used to. I can barely keep the weight on now, even though I didn't cut beer at all. If I cut out the beer, I'd probably weigh 99 pounds!

I do NOT have a fast metabolism naturally, and everyone in my family is overweight. So it's not like I'm naturally thin- I've got my Polish peasant genes that hang onto to weight in normal conditions. I joke that I can outlive just about anybody in a famine, due to my natural tendency to be heavy, particularly around the middle.

I have really come to learn alot about wheat, and due to the "antinutrients" in wheat, I will not eat it unless I have to (like at a dinner party and there is nothing else): http://www.marksdailyapple.com/why-grains-are-unhealthy/#axzz29a3Y6X8A is a short synopsis of that.

As far as links to what I'm talking about, aside from Gary Taubes (the classic work on this idea), you could look up Chris Kresser's website (link seems down at the moment) and he has posted many studies and research on why the whole calories in/calories out is wrong. Recently, Taubes wrote an article for Newsweek with a synposis of his book (which is over about 600 pages) so this article is shorter and explains the obesity epidemic and why the "calorie is calorie" idea is wrong: http://www.thedailybeast.com/newswe...p-america-s-obesity-crisis-keeps-failing.html


The thing I said was this though- it is true that if you eat fewer calories then you expend you will lose weight. I totally agree. But my point is that it's not OPTIMUM for health and well being.

Optimum nutrition, which gives you a healthy heart, healthy teeth, healthy body, (which just happens to put me at a slim weight), along with no problems with insulin resistance/metabolic syndrome- THAT is the key for health. That fact that I happen to be at a perfect weight by doing all of that for my health is a bonus, and not the goal.

 

[dbrewski]

three...two...one....wait for it....theSlash is typing...

 

[KeyWestBrewing]

Most NFL linebackers ARE obese.

I can't agree with that at all. They are probably in the best shape of any position on the field. The avg NFL linebacker is about 6' 2" , 240lbs, 5% or less body fat, runs a 4.5 sec 40 yard dash, and has a vertical jump of about 32 inches. That's not even getting into the numbers they can put up in the weight room. Obese people can't do that kinda stuff.

 

[Pecafaced]

I can't agree with that at all. They are probably in the best shape of any position on the field. The avg NFL linebacker is about 6' 2" , 240lbs, 5% or less body fat, runs a 4.5 sec 40 yard dash, and has a vertical jump of about 32 inches. That's not even getting into the numbers they can put up in the weight room. Obese people can't do that kinda stuff.

In terms of BMI which doesn't account for muscle mass...that linebacker is obese. But I agree they are in the best shape out of any other position.

 

[nukebrewer]

In terms of BMI which doesn't account for muscle mass...that linebacker is obese. But I agree they are in the best shape out of any other position.

There's no "in terms of BMI." You're either obese or your not. A number that doesn't take into account anything but height and weight is, to me, useless.

 

[FuzzeWuzze]

Calories in vs. calories out only applies to weight, but most people want to lose fat. That's why you have to consider the source of calories. If you take in mostly carbs you wont lose nearly as much fat as if you feed your body enough protein to maintain or increase your lean muscle mass. Additionally, healthy fats like CLA help to burn additional fat. The science isn't clear on why, but there is known to be a strong correlation between CLA intake and fat loss. Unlike a lot of supplements, the studies done on CLA were conducted using serving sizes that would be practical for the average person to consume.

This is why IIFYM dieting is so popular on fitness/bodybuilding forums. Im not saying that its the most HEALTHY way, but then again that is still subjective, and science cant to this day really entirely define healthy eating..just look at Eggs...in the last 20 years they have been horrible for you, then good for you, now there was another article that if you eat eggs you'll have a heart attack, its a joke really.

Look up IIFYM(If It Fits Your Macros)...watching your macros(Protein/Fat/Carbs) and keeping them at a constant % (say 50% carbs/30% protein, 20% fat) if your under your daily maintenence calories, you WILL lose weight. It doesnt matter if those carbs come from sugar or from wheat, obviously getting 50g of carbs from a candy bar will leave you entire unsatiated, where as 50g of carbs from oatmeal will have you full for hours.

Honestly, the diet that works best for everyone is the one that you can actually stick too as a lifestyle change, and not see it as a 3-6 month thing your doing before you go back to eating like crap. For some people Paleo diets are best, for some people Keto is easier, for some people IIFYM works...what Yooper is stating is true in that her evidence is good for her, not everyone necessarily.

For me i have the exact opposite issue most people have(although it sounds like Yoopers husband has it), in that i cant put on weight and feel like im eating like a horse just to put on 1 lb per week...

 

[jeepinjeepin]

Look up IIFYM(If It Fits Your Macros)...watching your macros(Protein/Fat/Carbs) and keeping them at a constant % (say 50% carbs/30% protein, 20% fat) if your under your daily maintenence calories, you WILL lose weight.

This is what I'm trying to do. I'm trying to hit the old 40/30/30. It's tougher than you think. I often end up short on protein.

 

[kroach01]

It is all about insulin production. Excess insulin cases the body to store fat. Excess carbs(sugars) cause insulin spikes and cause the body to store the sugars as fat.

Read Why we get Fat by Gary Taubes.

This is true to an extent. If there is already plenty of glycogen, there will be fat storage. If you carb load after a marathon, a good deal of these carbs are going to go to restoring glycogen, homeostasis, and bodily energy reserves. Not necessarily fat, but certainly associated with it.

 

[FuzzeWuzze]

This is what I'm trying to do. I'm trying to hit the old 40/30/30. It's tougher than you think. I often end up short on protein.

This is true, protein is harder because it fills you up. I always keep protein shakes around for this reason, and sip on one a day usually at work. You just have to get good stuff like Optinum Nutrition or others that arent loaded with carbs...most protein bars are garbage too and are basically candy bars with soy protein. Which opens up a whole 'nother debate on soy protein and estrogen production...

A lot of people diet improperly and loose weight, but dont realize until the end that they were losing muscle mass(weighs more than fat) along with it...so they get to the end and look like a anorexic cancer patient.
In the end they may have lost the weight and look skinnier, which is good for numerous health reasons though.

Im in the opposite boat, i have trouble putting on weight, so to go from 125-150 took me years of slowly bulking up and eating until i was sick lol.

 

[kroach01]

I disagree. If your BMI is over 30, that tells me that you are carrying an excessive amount of hydrated body fat. It tells me (and insurance companies) that you are at an elevated risk for diabetes, liver diseases, cardiovascular diseases, respiratory diseases, sleep apnea, joint problems, and a host of other ailments.

Show me a healthy/fit person with a BMI over 30.

I don't mean to be disrespectful, but I get so sick and tired of watching people trot out the same, lame excuses for being fat. "BMI isn't perfect! It doesn't work for professional bodybuilders! Therefore it's useless!"

Gimmie a break. Stop making excuses. If you don't believe when BMI is telling you you're fat, then do you believe your doctor? Your mirror? What will it take to get you (I'm referring to the general "you", not you specifically, xjmox14x; I've never met you, you could be the picture of fitness) to admit that you need to lose weight?

The diet/fitness/supplement industry has never been as thriving as it is today, and at the same time, America has never been fatter. We know more and more about what makes us fat, and yet the trend is getting FATTER, not fitter! Why? With everyone swearing by Atkins and Taubes and paleo, TRX, Crossfit, vegetarianism, why do we keep getting fatter and fatter? And why do we keep making excuses?

No, BMI is not perfect. But it's not useless, either. If it says you're obese, and you're not a professional bodybuilder, then I'm sorry, but it's not your "bone structure and density" - it's because YOU'RE FAT.

+1, though probably a bit harsh.

The BMI isn't a one-size-fits-all equation that's always correct. It's useful for getting our best guesses about public health. It's cheap and easy, a good thing when trying to measure hundreds of millions of people.
For the AVERAGE person, not an NFL linebacker or professional bodybuilder, a BMI over 30 or so will mean there's too much body fat.
Clearly a BMI of 23-29 doesn't really say much because this is the point at which the deviations in muscle mass of the public vary too much to make an accurate statement based on BMI. If your BMI is 28, you're probably fine.
However, there are plenty of people with BMIs over 35. From a public health perspective, the VAST majority of these people are truly obese. Sure, you'll have the one in a hundred thousand NFL linebacker. But from a general public health perspective a BMI of 35 strongly indicates obesity and high risk of MI, stroke, DM, etc etc.

 

[CGVT]

This is true to an extent. If there is already plenty of glycogen, there will be fat storage. If you carb load after a marathon, a good deal of these carbs are going to go to restoring glycogen, homeostasis, and bodily energy reserves. Not necessarily fat, but certainly associated with it.

After you burn up the glycogen, you will burn fat. There is no reason to carb load for anything. Your body adapts to burn what is provided. I have run half marathons on a diet of less than 50 grams of carbs per day.

 

[kroach01]

Not taking it towards me, I hear what you're saying and I appreciate it. My argument isn't that the BMI should be used as a crutch, quite the opposite really. My argument is that the BMI index is a gross generalization that may indicate one is "fat". I don't think people should use what I'm saying as an excuse, and I'm not using it as an excuse for them. I workout regularly, have been in contact sports my entire life, have a bodyfat percentage in the low teens, have regular physicals and am very healthy, and according to the BMI index, I'm borderline between "overweight" and "obese". If you have a high bodyfat percentage and have health concerns because of that, then hell yes, you are obese. But I don't think you need a chart to prove or disprove that. Nor do you need to use what I've argued here as an excuse not to workout because you have some fantasy that you look like Chris Hemsworth, when in reality you look like Chris Farley.

The usefulness of the BMI scale on a person-to-person scale in the range of 23-29 is relatively useless without clinical exam. The utility of the BMI scale is from a public health perspective -- its a way to calculate public health trends on a scale of hundreds of millions of people. Thorough clinical exams are really not possible at this scale, so they need something cheap and easy with RELATIVE accuracy at that scale.

 

[kroach01]

After you burn up the glycogen, you will burn fat. There is no reason to carb load for anything. Your body adapts to burn what is provided. I have run half marathons on a diet of less than 50 grams of carbs per day.

This is not what I was saying, but you're obviously correct.
I was speaking about after a marathon (done one myself as well) when the glycogen stores are depleted. If you carb load at this particular point, most carbs will be going towards rebuilding glycogen supplies and restoring homeostasis and not necessarily fat storage because these were depleted during the extensive exercise.
However, carb loading does help before races. I and many other can attest to this in traithlons and distance running/cycling. This is a different subject matter, obviously.
Obviously in a sedentary person carb loading will cause an insulin spike, which transports glucose in insulin-dependent tissues and will way more likely be converted into fat.

Also, in more athletic/fit individuals the sensitivity of the body to insulin is much greater, meaning insulin spikes are smaller for a given carb load.

Edit: The utility of carb loading is real in endurance races where glycogen stores are at risk/will be depleted (> 90 min)
http://www.livestrong.com/article/389533-carb-load-diet-before-a-race/
http://www.training4cyclists.com/carb-load-before-race/
http://runningtimes.com/article.aspx?articleid=23853
http://www.active.com/fitness/Articles/Carbo-loading__Tips_for_endurance_athletes.htm
http://www.cyclingtips.com.au/2009/05/how-to-carb-load/
http://greatist.com/fitness/does-carb-loading-work/#

 

[Yooper]

After you burn up the glycogen, you will burn fat. There is no reason to carb load for anything. Your body adapts to burn what is provided. I have run half marathons on a diet of less than 50 grams of carbs per day.

I eat less than 25 grams of carbs per day, sometimes quite a bit less. I normally am at 20 grams of carbs or so. I don't run marathons, but I can bike and hike- and I easily backpack 9 miles or more carrying 40 pounds.

For me, it's been hard to get enough protein as I don't like dairy or eggs much. Pieces of cheese and boiled eggs are quick and easy, but I'm not a huge fan of the flavor. I am learning to try to enjoy it, though. I always eat protein first, along with fat, and then have some carbs if I want. For example, I'll eat a hard boiled egg, and then some berries if I'm having fruit.

Today I ate two pieces of cheese (about an ounce each), and a boiled egg. Then a huge stir-fry for lunch (veggies and beef), and then some grilled pork with horseradish, and lots of veggies for dinner. I had a small glass of red wine with dinner. Later tonight, I'll have several beers and some cheese for a snack. Calorie-wise, that's about 1800 calories, not counting the beers which would bring me to about 2400 calories if I drink my IPA or stout.

Right now, I'm completely full but not stuffed. But if "a calorie is a calorie" is true- I'd be fat. At 135 pounds, 2400 calories a day is way too much since I haven't exercised a bit since Saturday. I've been working all week, at a sedentary job.

That's pretty typical for me- lots of calories from protein, moderate amount from good fat, and as little as possible from carbs (but not giving up my beer!).

 

[FuzzeWuzze]

I eat less than 25 grams of carbs per day, sometimes quite a bit less. I normally am at 20 grams of carbs or so. I don't run marathons, but I can bike and hike- and I easily backpack 9 miles or more carrying 40 pounds.

For me, it's been hard to get enough protein as I don't like dairy or eggs much. Pieces of cheese and boiled eggs are quick and easy, but I'm not a huge fan of the flavor. I am learning to try to enjoy it, though. I always eat protein first, along with fat, and then have some carbs if I want. For example, I'll eat a hard boiled egg, and then some berries if I'm having fruit.

Today I ate two pieces of cheese (about an ounce each), and a boiled egg. Then a huge stir-fry for lunch (veggies and beef), and then some grilled pork with horseradish, and lots of veggies for dinner. I had a small glass of red wine with dinner. Later tonight, I'll have several beers and some cheese for a snack. Calorie-wise, that's about 1800 calories, not counting the beers which would bring me to about 2400 calories if I drink my IPA or stout.

Right now, I'm completely full but not stuffed. But if "a calorie is a calorie" is true- I'd be fat. At 135 pounds, 2400 calories a day is way too much since I haven't exercised a bit since Saturday. I've been working all week, at a sedentary job.

That's pretty typical for me- lots of calories from protein, moderate amount from good fat, and as little as possible from carbs (but not giving up my beer!).

Your basically doing Keto dieting, personally i cant stand Keto..i tried it and once i went low carbs for a week and entered Ketosis (which takes several days to weeks on low <50g carbs) i had horrible mood swings, and horrible headaches. But there are tons of people on the fitness forums who do it and love it. It also makes your breath stink due to the high acetone levels lol...

 

[kroach01]

I eat less than 25 grams of carbs per day, sometimes quite a bit less. I normally am at 20 grams of carbs or so. I don't run marathons, but I can bike and hike- and I easily backpack 9 miles or more carrying 40 pounds.

For me, it's been hard to get enough protein as I don't like dairy or eggs much. Pieces of cheese and boiled eggs are quick and easy, but I'm not a huge fan of the flavor. I am learning to try to enjoy it, though. I always eat protein first, along with fat, and then have some carbs if I want. For example, I'll eat a hard boiled egg, and then some berries if I'm having fruit.

Today I ate two pieces of cheese (about an ounce each), and a boiled egg. Then a huge stir-fry for lunch (veggies and beef), and then some grilled pork with horseradish, and lots of veggies for dinner. I had a small glass of red wine with dinner. Later tonight, I'll have several beers and some cheese for a snack. Calorie-wise, that's about 1800 calories, not counting the beers which would bring me to about 2400 calories if I drink my IPA or stout.

Right now, I'm completely full but not stuffed. But if "a calorie is a calorie" is true- I'd be fat. At 135 pounds, 2400 calories a day is way too much since I haven't exercised a bit since Saturday. I've been working all week, at a sedentary job.

That's pretty typical for me- lots of calories from protein, moderate amount from good fat, and as little as possible from carbs (but not giving up my beer!).

I think there's a lot of truth in this. If you look at human history, the consumption of simple sugars in such high quantities as in recent decades is a relatively new phenomenon. It correlates highly with the "obesity epidemic."
That and the decreasing amount of physical activity due to the convenience of modern technology.
Though with respect to your theory about wheat being unhealthy I believe that the problem there derives largely from the fact that it is now so highly processed and devoid of vitamins, minerals, and healthy fibers.
In that vein I'm curious if there's a correlation between consumption of highly processed wheat and the incidence of colorectal cancer.

 

[TheSlash]

Yep 20g of carbs a day is for sure keto. Metallic taste in the mouth, body running on fat instead of carbs, muscle sparing, good old Keto.. You're considered Keto, aka "no carb", not low carb at that stage. I'm curious on the beer though.... A normal 1.050 to 1.010 brew will run about 15 carbs. If you're not counting those if might be enough to keep you out of keto if you drank a couple a night.

 

[Yooper]

Though with respect to your theory about wheat being unhealthy I believe that the problem there derives largely from the fact that it is now so highly processed and devoid of vitamins, minerals, and healthy fibers.

I use to eat wheat (and other grains) but found out about some "antinutrients" (synopsis here: http://www.marksdailyapple.com/why-grains-are-unhealthy/#axzz29h0RLBUj) that are present and did some more reading about them. Industrialized farming, with grains, is feeding a hungry world, but it's only been in the last 10,000 years ago that humans starting eating grains at all, and only in recent history that they started consuming much of them.

I understand what you mean, but I really feel that wheat is basically inedible. We can eat it, and many of us don't suffer too many ill effects, but I think the huge increase in celiac disease, IBS, etc, comes from our emphasis on the food pyramid and adding more wheat and other grains to the diet in the last 40 years. This includes corn- corn is in EVERYTHING in the grocery store, I swear! A little is probably fine, in moderation, but it's become the basis of the US diet. And that explains much of the explosion of obesity, diabetes, metabolic syndrome (prediabetes), etc.

And don't get me started on "low fat" versions of food! They replace the fat with sugar in many of those "low fat" things. I tried to buy some yogurt the other day- and it was impossible to buy more than ONE carton of yogurt with no added sugar/sucrose/splenda/saccharine.

I really feel that sugar is the enemy, but wheat is right up there too in my opinion.

 

[Yooper]

Yep 20g of carbs a day is for sure keto. Metallic taste in the mouth, body running on fat instead of carbs, muscle sparing, good old Keto.. You're considered Keto, aka "no carb", not low carb at that stage. I'm curious on the beer though.... A normal 1.050 to 1.010 brew will run about 15 carbs. If you're not counting those if might be enough to keep you out of keto if you drank a couple a night.

No, I EAT about 20 grams of carbs a day. I drink beer, and don't count carbs with what I drink.

But at 20-25 grams of carbs a day, even without any beer, I don't throw ketones. A urine dip is negative for ketones for me, even at that small amount of carbs.

 

[FuzzeWuzze]

I use to eat wheat (and other grains) but found out about some "antinutrients" (synopsis here: http://www.marksdailyapple.com/why-grains-are-unhealthy/#axzz29h0RLBUj) that are present and did some more reading about them. Industrialized farming, with grains, is feeding a hungry world, but it's only been in the last 10,000 years ago that humans starting eating grains at all, and only in recent history that they started consuming much of them.

I understand what you mean, but I really feel that wheat is basically inedible. We can eat it, and many of us don't suffer too many ill effects, but I think the huge increase in celiac disease, IBS, etc, comes from our emphasis on the food pyramid and adding more wheat and other grains to the diet in the last 40 years. This includes corn- corn is in EVERYTHING in the grocery store, I swear! A little is probably fine, in moderation, but it's become the basis of the US diet. And that explains much of the explosion of obesity, diabetes, metabolic syndrome (prediabetes), etc.

And don't get me started on "low fat" versions of food! They replace the fat with sugar in many of those "low fat" things. I tried to buy some yogurt the other day- and it was impossible to buy more than ONE carton of yogurt with no added sugar/sucrose/splenda/saccharine.

I really feel that sugar is the enemy, but wheat is right up there too in my opinion.

No offense, but nutrition sites like that and vegan sites are a joke. The one medical study he linked too there at the beginning about grains in your intestine walls he just joked off like "LOL, the scientist said thats a good thing, i dont know about you but it sounds horrible! Grains tearing up my intestinal walls!".

Its retarded comments like that which make me discredit anything else he says.

Those pseudo science nutrition sites are full of garbage, if its published in a peer reviewed scientific journal I would give it consideration.

This is the particular part of the article i stopped reading at...

A few years back, scientists found that high-fiber foods &#8220;bang up against the cells lining the gastrointestinal tract, rupturing their outer covering&#8221; which &#8220;increases the level of lubricating mucus.&#8221; Err, that sounds positively awful. Banging and tearing? Rupturing? These are not the words I like to hear. But wait! The study&#8217;s authors say, &#8220;It&#8217;s a good thing.&#8221; Fantastic! So when all those sticks and twigs rub up against my fleshy interior and literally rupture my intestinal lining, I&#8217;ve got nothing to worry about. It&#8217;s all part of the plan, right?

Actually yes, that is all part of the plan, the science says so. His opinion on the process sounding bad, therefore it must be, is the textbook definition of retarded. His entire website is the definition of BroScience, which is so prevalent on fitness and nutrition websites and forums sadly.