Batch Sparge issues

[Etu001]

So I've my brew partner and I finished our 3rd All grain batch (5g batch). We are having issues with the batch sparge process. This is the only hiccup in our brew day.

Our set up- 10 Gal Pot, 10 Gal cooler, false bottom

I am going to walk you through our process and I hope you can comment on it.

We preheat our cooler with a small pot of boiling water. We then add half of our hot water, in the high 160s and then add half our grains, the rest of the water, then the grains. We stir and then let sit, covered for 45min to 60 min (is 45 too short?)

Using beersmith, we calculated that we need 4.78g of water to sparge. We recirculated a few quarts of water to settle the grain bed. We poured about 3g of this 4.78g water at 190 degrees to "mash out". We then quickly drained this through the cooler into our brew pot. This would be first runnings correct?

We then dumped the rest of the water and drained through our cooler for our second runnings.

Am I doing something wrong?

Thanks!

 

[Kentunkel]

You'll want to recirculate your sparge infusion too. Other than that looks like what I do, what problem are you having?

 

[duboman]

Usually you mash in with water at 168F to mash at 152ish.........The pre-heating is a great idea. There is no reason to add your water in stages, add all your strike water first, then slowly pour in your grain while mixing well and then cover and leave it for an hour, maybe with a stir at the 30 minute mark.

Then you Vorleuf several times to get clear runnings and set the grain bed, the Vorleuf water is returned slowly to not disturb the grain bed at this point. Then drain: This drain =first runnings

Then you sparge: Add sparge water at 180F either all at once or in two steps, however you like, I do it all at once. Stir like hell to knock the sugars loose, vorleuf again until clear and then drain. You should arrive at the proper pre-boil volume when this step is complete. If not you need to recalculate your equipment profile and calculated deadspace, losses, etc. So Beersmith can properly calculate all your volumes.

I'll assume you problem is not getting the correct volumes? If so you need to re-evaluate the dead space in your tun, kettle, absorption, boil off and tweak your settings.

 

[smokinj]

What I do is heat my strike water to 4-5 degrees higher than what beersmith calls for and put it all in the cold tun. I then stir until it it is down to the proper strike temperature. That saves the step of heating extra water. Then all of the grain goes in. If you are using beersmith and want it to calculate your mash out volume, select single infusion, whichever body, 2 steps. After mash out you should add your sparge water, around 168 deg., and let it sit for 10 minutes or so. Then vorlauf and run it all into your kettle. If you want to speed up brewday a little more, you can start to heat up your first runnings while the sparge is sitting, then runoff your sparge into a separate pot and transfer it to your boil kettle.

 

[tre9er]

What I do is heat my strike water to 4-5 degrees higher than what beersmith calls for and put it all in the cold tun. I then stir until it it is down to the proper strike temperature. That saves the step of heating extra water. Then all of the grain goes in. If you are using beersmith and want it to calculate your mash out volume, select single infusion, whichever body, 2 steps. After mash out you should add your sparge water, around 168 deg., and let it sit for 10 minutes or so. Then vorlauf and run it all into your kettle. If you want to speed up brewday a little more, you can start to heat up your first runnings while the sparge is sitting, then runoff your sparge into a separate pot and transfer it to your boil kettle.

I've been doing something similar for quite a few brews and it works very well.

I heat strike to 180, then fill mash tun. I cover and check every 10 minutes until its slightly HIGHER than I want it, then I begin to "dough-in". I very, very slowly sift grain into the water while stirring it as soon as it hits. It takes me a good five minutes some times. I take temps in various places and stir, repeat. It will be high at first, but that's much better than low. Once I'm satisfied with the average temp, I close and cover with two blankets.

 

[Waynep005]

I found that the the biggest improvement I found was stirring much more than I think I need to when I sparge. It seems t make a huge difference in my effencincy.

 

[JDFlow]

for what it's worth I recently switched from batch to fly sparging and my eficciency jumped about 10 percent.

 

[Bobby_M]

Skip the mashout infusion. Drain the tun first, then add your sparge.

 

[tre9er]

I found that the the biggest improvement I found was stirring much more than I think I need to when I sparge. It seems t make a huge difference in my effencincy.

Crush, stirring (especially when doughing-in. Don't dump all grain in, sift it in very slowly while stirring like mad the entire time. Also stir after the mash is done and after each sparge addition), and good water will make all the difference. Check your water PH if necessary, too.

 

[prrriiide]

First off, I highly recommend this wonderful treatise by BobbyM. It will do wonders for your process and your understanding of what you are actually doing in the mash.

I do mine a little bit differently than most on this thread and what Bobby outlines, I guess. Here's my process (as close as I can get without being in the moment...):

I use 2 pots - a 7g HLT and a 12g brewpot

I heat up a good amount of water in my 7g pot, usually about 6g. How hot? I let BeerSmith tell me that after I take the temp of the grain. I usually try to UNDERshoot the temp by a degree or two.

Then I add all but 1/2 gallon of my strike water volume and let the MT pre-heat. Then I dough in, stirring vigorously to get all of the grains wet with no dough balls. All the while, the remaining water in the 7g pot is coming to a boil. After a few minutes of letting the mash settle, I take a temp. It's usually 2-3 degrees low. So I then go to brewersfriend and use their quick infusion calculator (which works very well on a smartphone, btw) to determine how much of the boiling water to add to get my mash temp up to target. It's usually only a quart or two, but that's fine. If I lose any temp during the mash, I can add a quart or so at the boil to bring the temp back up, but I only do that on the coldest days when I might lose more than 2-3 degrees. Usually I just let it ride.

I still do a mashout using the infusion calc to tell me how much boiling water to add to bring up the mash temp to 168, and I add that amount. Then I immediately start my sparge water heating - 6g again. My burner will heat that to knockout temp in 15-20 minutes, so it's a good mashout rest time. Again, I heat up more than I'll use and I let BeerSmith tell me how hot to get it for sparge but it's usually right at 168. I vorlauf, then drain the first runnings completely into the brew kettle, sparge twice, 1/2 volume the first time and then with however much I need to hit my target volume. Stir at each batch addition and vorlauf each draining.

I usually end up within a couple of points of my est. OG.

 

[Etu001]

Thanks everyone for the advice. I guess I diluted my first runnings by adding the sparge water first before draining. Will this hurt my gravity? My gravity was a bit low (1.4 instead of 1.5)ish.

In addition, is there a better way to determine gravity besides a $5 glass hydrometer? I feel like its the most unscientific part of my process but one of the most important.

Thanks!

 

[prrriiide]

Thanks everyone for the advice. I guess I diluted my first runnings by adding the sparge water first before draining. Will this hurt my gravity? My gravity was a bit low (1.4 instead of 1.5)ish.

In addition, is there a better way to determine gravity besides a $5 glass hydrometer? I feel like its the most unscientific part of my process but one of the most important.

Thanks!

The water shouldn't have made a difference.

I use a refractometer pre-fermentation. It's quick & easy and you can take a reading at any point in the process without having to draw off 6 oz. Post-ferm is all hydrometer, tho. A refractometer will set you back ~$30 on e-bay.

 

[SilverZero]

Also don't forget to chill any sample you are using for a hydrometer reading. If you can get under 80F, a hydrometer correction table or calculator will get you a good reading. Trying to read and/or correct from a very high temperature seems more ballpark than I prefer.

Adding water before draining shouldn't affect your pre-boil gravity as it all would end up in there one way or another. Your gravity might be low due to efficiency or some other issue.

As for all this "shooting for" certain temps, I really recommend using a calculator. I use the one at Brew365.com to calculate mash and sparge temps and volumes, and I've never missed a mash by more than a degree or so. Even without correcting for heat loss to my picnic cooler mash tun, it's always been right on. Knowing your grain weight and temperature is important. I'm sure you could guess and check and correct if you always use similar grain amounts, but I'm a scientist at heart. BeerSmith will also give you mash temps and volumes, but I find it easier to use the online calculator, at least until I know I've got all my equipment and such dialed in within BeerSmith.

 

[tre9er]

Fact remains it's better to be a degree or two HIGH than low. Stirring with the lid open>>>>>>>>hurriedly heating infusion water.

 

[Bobby_M]

The water shouldn't have made a difference.

I use a refractometer pre-fermentation. It's quick & easy and you can take a reading at any point in the process without having to draw off 6 oz. Post-ferm is all hydrometer, tho. A refractometer will set you back ~$30 on e-bay.

The prerunning dilution absolutely affects efficiency because it leaves less water for the sparge.