Barleywine opinions

[Nico93]

Hi to all.

In the next month i'm going to brew this style! is my first barleywine.


i thought something like that



SRM: 16,6 SRM
IBU: 57,2 IBUs Tinseth
OG: 1,112 SG
FG: 1,014 SG
BU:GU: 0,512
Est ABV: 13,1 %

EE%: 60,00 % Batch: 3,17 gal Boil: 6,08 gal BT: 120 Mins



Amt Name Type # %/IBU
13 lbs 3,6 oz Pale Malt, Maris Otter (3,0 SRM) Grain 1 88,2 %
1 lbs 1,6 oz Caramel/Crystal Malt - 60L (60,0 SRM) Grain 2 7,4 %
10,6 oz Sugar, Table (Sucrose) (1,0 SRM) Sugar 3 4,4 %


Saccharification 147,2 F 75 min
Mash Out 168,8 F 10 min

BOIL

2,29 oz Hallertau [4,50 %] - Boil 60,0 min Hop 4 57,2 IBUs


2 pack of US 05

what do you think about?

what would you change?


thanks

Nicolò

 

[TheZymurgist]

I would up the IBU to around 80, and I tend to like my beers on the sweeter side. With that high of an OG, you're going to want some balance, otherwise, it'll be cloyingly sweet. I would also do 3 packs of yeast, just to be absolutely sure.

Any reason why you're mashing so low? Barleywines tend to be a bit on the malty side, and will have a higher finishing gravity. I would mash around 152º or 154º.

 

[Herky21]

You'll need more yeast and pure oxygen. Probably yeast nutrient as well. Recommend Mrmalty.com to calculate.

With that simple of a grain bill you may want an even longer boil, like 3 hours. I'd also be into some flavoring hop additions, but that's more of a style critique. I don't understand the table sugar addition? If you add sugar I'd go with something darker. That's another flavor/style thing though and you can do what you want.

 

[giraffe]

That seems very reasonable. Depends on how long you plan to age it, I might increase the hopping, as the bitterness will fade with aging. Personally id go with around 90 ibu if you plan to age it 9 or more months.

Is 2 packs of US-05 enough?

 

[JKaranka]

The grist looks good but I'd reduce the crystal malt to keep it from being too sweet. The amount of sugar is spot on although you might want to consider inverting some cane sugar while you mash instead. As above, make sure to oxygenate, pack in plenty of yeast and up the IBU a bit. Another 2oz or 1.5oz at the 20m or 30m mark could work to up the IBU and leave some flavour. You'll age that long enough that you don't have to bother too much with very late additions or aroma.

 

[TheZymurgist]

You'll need more yeast and pure oxygen. Probably yeast nutrient as well. Recommend Mrmalty.com to calculate.

With that simple of a grain bill you may want an even longer boil, like 3 hours. I'd also be into some flavoring hop additions, but that's more of a style critique. I don't understand the table sugar addition? If you add sugar I'd go with something darker. That's another flavor/style thing though and you can do what you want.

I'll also second this. Forgot about nutrient and oxygen. :smack:

Those two factors are going to be just as important as the number of cells pitched. If you don't have enough of any of those three factors, you're going to get a stuck fermentation, and end up frustrated.

The longer boil will help with your efficiency, but I don't have the patience to wait 3 hours. I would consider 2 possibly, but most likely would just do 90 minutes.

Personally, I use table sugar because it's cheap and we always have a bunch in our pantry, and rely on grains for color, but like Herky said, it's more of a preference item.

 

[Nico93]

thanks to all, i changed the recipe according with your opinions


SRM: 16,6 SRM
IBU: 83,7 IBUs Tinseth I
OG: 1,112 SG
FG: 1,018 SG
BU:GU: 0,749
Est ABV: 12,5 %
EE%: 60,00 % Batch: 3,17 gal Boil: 5,55 gal BT: 120 Mins


Amt Name Type # %/IBU
13 lbs 3,6 oz Pale Malt, Maris Otter (3,0 SRM) Grain 1 88,2 %
1 lbs 1,6 oz Caramel/Crystal Malt - 60L (60,0 SRM) Grain 2 7,4 %
10,6 oz Cane (Beet) Sugar (0,0 SRM) Sugar 3 4,4 %

Name Description Step Temperat Step Time
Saccharification Heat to 150,8 F over 15 min 150,8 F 75 min
Mash Out Heat to 168,8 F over 10 min 168,8 F 10 min



3,53 oz Hallertau [4,50 %] - Boil 60,0 min Hop 4 83,7 IBUs


changed the mash temp to 151
increased the ibu to 85
changed table sugar with cane sugar
increased to 3 package of US-05
added the yeast nutrients


i put the sugar to help the attenuation, is this ok?
for the oxygenation i haven't got the possibility to use pure oxygen, i'm going to splash the beer, the last time with the ris worked

 

[Herky21]

I'll also second this. Forgot about nutrient and oxygen. :smack:

Those two factors are going to be just as important as the number of cells pitched. If you don't have enough of any of those three factors, you're going to get a stuck fermentation, and end up frustrated.

The longer boil will help with your efficiency, but I don't have the patience to wait 3 hours. I would consider 2 possibly, but most likely would just do 90 minutes.

Personally, I use table sugar because it's cheap and we always have a bunch in our pantry, and rely on grains for color, but like Herky said, it's more of a preference item.

I was thinking the longer boil both for efficiency and for complex flavors. Using very few malts and no hop flavoring additions may yield a less exciting beer than you may want.

And for the table and/or cane sugar, it's confusing. You recommend a higher mash to get a higher FG, which I agree with. The sugar is only going to thin out the beer without adding any flavor.

I would either switch it with something interesting (i.e. molasses, maple syrup, brown sugar (which is basically cane sugar with molasses) etc. or drop it out.

And for the sugar Q:

You're saying you want the beer to have a lower FG and to be drier. In that case the sugar makes sense, but you raised the mash temp to accommodate a higher FG so that doesn't seem to be the case. I guess all I'm saying, is that you should think about what you want it to turn into. The purpose of a higher mash temp for the style is to attenuate less. Adding sugar will attenuate more. I don't see any value in doing both, unless you just really want it to be 13%.

 

[zippybasher]

I will agree and disagree with what has been said.

Lots of Yeast, Nutrient and O2!

I would keep the low mash temp, with 1.112OG you are going to need a hell of attenuation to get something not cloyingly sweet. IMO

And keep the regular sugar if you cant get the OG with Barly alone. This is your first shot at this style, so I wouldn't go adding something like Mollasses because you wont have a baseline for experimenting with flavors next time. Again IMO.

To each his own, but for a first time style brew, GO SIMPLE!

 

[fantomlord]

I will agree and disagree with what has been said.

Lots of Yeast, Nutrient and O2!

I would keep the low mash temp, with 1.112OG you are going to need a hell of attenuation to get something not cloyingly sweet. IMO

And keep the regular sugar if you cant get the OG with Barly alone. This is your first shot at this style, so I wouldn't go adding something like Mollasses because you wont have a baseline for experimenting with flavors next time. Again IMO.

To each his own, but for a first time style brew, GO SIMPLE!

^that.

and I would reduce your crystal malts by a good bit. For my 5 gallon BW, I used less than a pound of crystal/chocolate, and it came out really good without being cloying.

 

[Nico93]

i added the sugar in the first recipe in order to help the yeast to attenuate a lot because i thought that with an high og i needed it., but reading al your comments i understood that i don't need it, i leave it in the second recipe to increase a little bit the og because the mash tun is full!(yes i can reduce the volume of wort but we are two members and is already few liters!


now i'm a little bit confused with the mash profile

 

[TheZymurgist]

i added the sugar in the first recipe in order to help the yeast to attenuate a lot because i thought that with an high og i needed it., but reading al your comments i understood that i don't need it, i leave it in the second recipe to increase a little bit the og because the mash tun is full!(yes i can reduce the volume of wort but we are two members and is already few liters!


now i'm a little bit confused with the mash profile

The lower the mash temp, the higher degree of attenuation you're going to get. This will also lead to less malt complexity. My recommendation of mashing a little higher was to preserve the malt profile, but you have to be very sure to add enough yeast, oxygen, and nutrients to make sure it attenuates well.

Personally, I would stick with the sugar. Yes, the purpose is to improve attenuation and it will thin the beer out a little, but a beer with a low mash temp and no sugar will not be the same as a beer with a higher mash temp with sugar added. I've been pleased with my higher gravity beers that retain a good malt profile, while still attenuating where I want them to. I've tried lower mash temps in a chase for better attenuation, but I haven't been as happy with the final product.

Again, it comes down to your personal preference. The vast majority of commercial Barleywines that I'm aware of, mash in the mid 150's (I think Lagunitas mashes at 160) and few of them seem to have attenuation problems.

 

[solbes]

Make sure you properly rehydrate those 3 yeast packets. Warmish water (75-80F) and let it cool to pitching temps first. Yeast nutrient in your wort will help a lot.

I don't see this getting below 1.020 FG, but I suppose with the perfect conditions its possible. Right around there would be good anyway. I like the sugar addition and mashing fairly low (I'd go 150-151).

Consider oaking a portion of this. I made one last year that I'm drinking and I greatly prefer the oaked version vs the non-oaked. I used oak cubes that were used in a batch of Barolo red wine.

 

[Nico93]

thanks to both, i'll keep the sugar and i'm going to mash at 150/151°

and for sure i'll consider to age a part with oak!

 

[fantomlord]

The lower the mash temp, the higher degree of attenuation you're going to get. This will also lead to less malt complexity. My recommendation of mashing a little higher was to preserve the malt profile, but you have to be very sure to add enough yeast, oxygen, and nutrients to make sure it attenuates well.

Personally, I would stick with the sugar. Yes, the purpose is to improve attenuation and it will thin the beer out a little, but a beer with a low mash temp and no sugar will not be the same as a beer with a higher mash temp with sugar added. I've been pleased with my higher gravity beers that retain a good malt profile, while still attenuating where I want them to. I've tried lower mash temps in a chase for better attenuation, but I haven't been as happy with the final product.

Again, it comes down to your personal preference. The vast majority of commercial Barleywines that I'm aware of, mash in the mid 150's (I think Lagunitas mashes at 160) and few of them seem to have attenuation problems.

I don't think you really need to mash high to get good malt complexity with a beer this big. I mashed mine (OG = 1.107) at 149, and have plenty of mash complexity--and mine was ~95% Marris Otter.

 

[jahdub]

Definitely don't mash high. At that high of an OG, finishing at 1.015 will be difficult. I did a BW that finished over 1.020 after mashing at 148. The risk of having "too dry" of a beer when you're starting at over 1.100 is very little.

 

[Nico93]

i'll let you know how it will

 

[seanybubbles]

I find the grain bill to resemble a double ipa more than a barley wine. I would dump the sugar and bump up the Maris otter. Boil as long as you can for character. Just my 2 cents.