Banana flavor after bottling

[colorolo]

Hi all. Fairly new to brewing. So far all extract brews. Here's my problem:

After fermentation, I've tasted each beer prior to bottling and carbination. Everything seems to taste great. Then I bottle and carbinate, and after a few weeks, each beer has had varying degrees of banana flavor.

My understanding is that the banana flavor comes from the fermentation temp. But I store my bottles in nearly the same location that my primary fermenter sits. If it tastes fine prior to bottling, why am I getting the banana flavors after bottling, if they're at the same temp?

Any ideas? The beer isn't bad, but could be a lot better. Thanks!

 

[mdindy]

Do you have the sticker thermometer on the carboy, it can give you a pretty good idea of what you are actually fermenting at, maybe just needs to ferment in a cooler place.

 

[roastglint]

Hi all. Fairly new to brewing. So far all extract brews. Here's my problem:

After fermentation, I've tasted each beer prior to bottling and carbination. Everything seems to taste great. Then I bottle and carbinate, and after a few weeks, each beer has had varying degrees of banana flavor.

My understanding is that the banana flavor comes from the fermentation temp. But I store my bottles in nearly the same location that my primary fermenter sits. If it tastes fine prior to bottling, why am I getting the banana flavors after bottling, if they're at the same temp?

Any ideas? The beer isn't bad, but could be a lot better. Thanks!

What kind of yeast are you using? that could have a lot to do with it.

 

[colorolo]

First three were kits, and I'm not sure. Last three were S-04.

Still curious why flavors were not the pre-bottling, but present post-bottling.

 

[roastglint]

Maybe your stressing your yeast out some how after bottleing?

 

[colorolo]

Maybe your stressing your yeast out some how after bottleing?

I appreciate the replies. Any idea how this would happen or what I can do to prevent?

 

[PlexVector]

The fermentor having a larger mass will not be affected as easy by temp spikes, but the bottles may be seeing more temp variation. Is this a possibility?

 

[roastglint]

I appreciate the replies. Any idea how this would happen or what I can do to prevent?

Ferm temps are what comes to my mind first beyond that I dont really know.

 

[colorolo]

The fermentor having a larger mass will not be affected as easy by temp spikes, but the bottles may be seeing more temp variation. Is this a possibility?

It is a possibility, and something I'll look into. I think my basement stays at pretty consistent temps, but I'm not entirely sure.

Long and short, I need to find out what the temps are (primary and bottling) and see if it's correct for the yeast.

 

[colorolo]

Do you have the sticker thermometer on the carboy, it can give you a pretty good idea of what you are actually fermenting at, maybe just needs to ferment in a cooler place.

I don't. I plan on getting one of these immediately.

 

[j1n]

ferm temps too high. you probably taste it more now that its carbonated.

 

[Yooper]

First three were kits, and I'm not sure. Last three were S-04.

Still curious why flavors were not the pre-bottling, but present post-bottling.

So4 is notorious for being 'estery' (ie bananas and even a tart flavor) if it's fermented above about 65 degrees. I will not use that yeast over 62 degrees, as I can pick it up even at 65 degrees.

The off flavor is coming from a too-warm fermentation temperature, but you don't taste it prebottling perhaps because it's warm and flat, but I bet if you tried really hard you could pick it out if you are looking for it then.

The easy fix is to use a more higher temperature tolerant yeast, or to ferment cooler (or both). If you're doing fermentation in a room that is around 70 degrees, that's a bit too warm for most ale yeast strains.

 

[colorolo]

So4 is notorious for being 'estery' (ie bananas and even a tart flavor) if it's fermented above about 65 degrees. I will not use that yeast over 62 degrees, as I can pick it up even at 65 degrees.

The off flavor is coming from a too-warm fermentation temperature, but you don't taste it prebottling perhaps because it's warm and flat, but I bet if you tried really hard you could pick it out if you are looking for it then.

The easy fix is to use a more higher temperature tolerant yeast, or to ferment cooler (or both). If you're doing fermentation in a room that is around 70 degrees, that's a bit too warm for most ale yeast strains.

Thanks for the advice. Any suggestions for a standard ale yeast that can handle higher temps?

 

[DocDriza]

maybe there is something up with the bottles? maybe they aren't as clean and sanitized as you think?

 

[colorolo]

maybe there is something up with the bottles? maybe they aren't as clean and sanitized as you think?

I considered that. Most, however, were brand new bottles that had full 2 minute soaks in star san. It's not impossible, however.

 

[mrgrimm101]

So this has been true of multiple batches? What styles were they? A lot of Belgian beers can take on a banana-like flavor. This is generally a flavor given from the yeast.

 

[Yooper]

Thanks for the advice. Any suggestions for a standard ale yeast that can handle higher temps?

S05 is ok up to about 72 or 73 degrees. But, keep in in mind that active fermentation itself creates heat and I've personally seen a very active fermentation be 10 degrees warmer than the ambient temperature! So, that means a room or 62-65, colder than most people's idea of "room temperature".

There are many ways to cool fermentation- swamp coolers, ice baths, a fan, etc, and that is probably THE key to good beer.

 

[colorolo]

So this has been true of multiple batches? What styles were they? A lot of Belgian beers can take on a banana-like flavor. This is generally a flavor given from the yeast.

The first three were IPA kits from Northern Brewer. The last three were two stouts and an english brown ale.

 

[colorolo]

S05 is ok up to about 72 or 73 degrees. But, keep in in mind that active fermentation itself creates heat and I've personally seen a very active fermentation be 10 degrees warmer than the ambient temperature! So, that means a room or 62-65, colder than most people's idea of "room temperature".

There are many ways to cool fermentation- swamp coolers, ice baths, a fan, etc, and that is probably THE key to good beer.

Great advice. Thanks.

Hello from down state, btw...

 

[mrgrimm101]

The first three were IPA kits from Northern Brewer. The last three were two stouts and an english brown ale.

That's bizarre. The only time I've really heard of banana-like flavors is when describing a Belgian ale, like hefeweizens

 

[colorolo]

That's bizarre. The only time I've really heard of banana-like flavors is when describing a Belgian ale, like hefeweizens

I've read it occurs when fermentation occurs at too high of temps. See this thread: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=199955

 

[rhys333]

Nobody has mentioned pitching rates so far. Temperature is a huge contributor in controlling ester production, but so is the amount of yeast you pitch. If you under-pitch you can end up with significant ester production, in this case off-flavors you don't want. Best way to ensure you pitch enough is to rehydrate in warm water as per manufacturer instructions. One package rehydrated this way will give you plenty of cells to ferment a standard 5 gal 1.050 gravity beer.

 

[colorolo]

Nobody has mentioned pitching rates so far. Temperature is a huge contributor in controlling ester production, but so is the amount of yeast you pitch. If you under-pitch you can end up with significant ester production, in this case off-flavors you don't want. Best way to ensure you pitch enough is to rehydrate in warm water as per manufacturer instructions. One package rehydrated this way will give you plenty of cells to ferment a standard 5 gal 1.050 gravity beer.

I think this wasn't a problem. I only have done 1-2 gallon batches, and I have used half of the packets (or a little more) after rehydrating. But something to be aware of as well.

 

[thegreatmaibockaddict]

Read through the thread and still no mention of what the fermentation temperature is..

Just going to mention excessive trub in the fermentor can contribute various fruit flavors including banana, and over pitching can also contribute some fruity flavors, including banana.

I would bring some beer to a local brewery and see if the local pro can help ID the problem. Usually a good pro can tell you right away what you are doing wrong.

 

[ibanezgfx]

I did a 1 gallon batch that came out tasting like bananas as well. Wasn't terrible, but it was a Christmas Ale w/ spices that were not banana. I think I probably didn't wash the bottles well enough, but it could have been too high of a ferm temp, I didn't monitor it much.

 

[colorolo]

Read through the thread and still no mention of what the fermentation temperature is..

Just going to mention excessive trub in the fermentor can contribute various fruit flavors including banana, and over pitching can also contribute some fruity flavors, including banana.

I would bring some beer to a local brewery and see if the local pro can help ID the problem. Usually a good pro can tell you right away what you are doing wrong.

You're right on--I have no idea what the temps are! I just know my basement is cooler than the rest of my house, which we keep at 66. I like idea of bringing to brewery. Might just do that.

 

[rhys333]

over pitching can also contribute some fruity flavors, including banana.

Doesn't over-pitching usually result in total loss of esters? There's an interesting read on the Wyeast site:
https://www.wyeastlab.com/com-pitch-rates.cfm

Note summary at bottom of page.

 

[TycoRossBrewing]

I would say its the yeast you are using, its likely creating too many esters, which contribute to the bannana flavors in the final product. Esters are harder to notice pre carbonation.

Im with Yooper on this one. I would probably ferment at a lower temp or switch to a different yeast.