Bad Taste please HELP

[SpecialGreg]

ok. so my last 5 brews have been amazing everything has gone right untill fermentation... i let them sit for 2 weeks in my chest freezer at the right temp but there is this god awful taste to them when i get ready to keg them so i dump them. i will give you a run down of my brew day..

after 2 brews i realized that my ball valve was dirty and thought that was the problem so i brewed 2 more and still the same problem.

so i do a BIAB method. i have a 10gallon pot with a ball valve and thermometer and i brew for 5.5gallons of wort. so usually i start with about 5-6 gallons of water that i pull right from my water heater with a purifier so it gets up to temp faster, get to about 155 to 160 then mash in my grains. i have been doing a 75min mash and only having to fire up the burner about 1 time to keep the temp in range and i stir about every 5 to 15 mins. then next i got about 3 or 4 gallons in another pot that i heat up to about 170. i pull the grains after 75 mins and put them in a plastic bowl that i have converted into a strainer over the brew pot and sparge with the 170 degree water untill i have reached my pre-boil volume. then its on to the boil... nothing special here.. boil for 60 mins. add hops straight into the wort. then with about 15 mins left i take my immersion chill and put it in a bucket of star san. boom flame out. i whirlpool for about 5 mins then immersion chiller goes into the kettle and the hose gets turned on and the lid gets put on the top of the pot also to keep bugs and stuff out. then when it is the right temp i slowly open the ball valve with the first runnings going into the hydrometer test tube then into the carboy. once the carboy is filled i pitch the yeast (4 i made starters for 1 i did not) and put a bung in and roll it on the ground to airate it. next it goes into my chest freezer which is climate controlled to 70degrees with an airlock with star san in it. (also my carboy is filled with starsan the whole time i am brewing and emptied 15 mins before boil is done and capped with a sanitized bung.)

then 2 weeks later i pull a sample to test the gravity and i also taste it... and i get this god awful taste that i dont even know how to explain...

i have done 1 successful brew in a bag with this pot everything else has gotten this nasty flavor that i cant describe. please if anyone can help me solve this i would really appreciate it.

It is really starting to frustrate me. and i have looked at the off flavors from john palmer and i honestly couldnt tell you what this flavor is i just know its not right

 

[Harry482]

Does it taste like green apple?

 

[Coupleathree]

70 degrees seems a little high for ambient temp. What yeast are you using? What are the beer styles?

 

[beergolf]

We need a better description besides god awful.

If you can give us a clue what the taste is then maybe we can help.

 

[SpecialGreg]

Does it taste like green apple?

no not really green apples i would have to say.. kind of like bitter/sour kinda mouth warming maybe like idk a musky taste to it..

 

[SpecialGreg]

70 degrees seems a little high for ambient temp. What yeast are you using? What are the beer styles?

2 blondes with SD Super yeast 2 IPAS with WLP001 California

 

[ktblunden]

so usually i start with about 5-6 gallons of water that i pull right from my water heater with a purifier so it gets up to temp faster

I wouldn't do that. Lead and other contaminants become soluble in hot water. You shouldn't drink or cook with hot water from your water heater.

Here's the first result I found on Google, but there's a lot of information about this out there: http://www.nytimes.com/2008/01/29/health/29real.html?_r=0

 

[SpecialGreg]

I wouldn't do that. Lead and other contaminants become soluble in hot water. You shouldn't drink or cook with hot water from your water heater.

Here's the first result I found on Google, but there's a lot of information about this out there: http://www.nytimes.com/2008/01/29/health/29real.html?_r=0

Have used for all beers before without the purifier and they were all fine. I believe once I started using the purifier started getting the nasty. But that is all pre boil so wouldn't it boil off anything in the water?

 

[fizgig]

I'm guessing it's huskiness/tannins from your sparging method. Try a full volume mash with no sparge and see if that fixes it, then later you can try different sparging methods to get your efficiency back up. Hot water and higher pH allows the tannins to leach out, with the method you are using, you can't really know if the pH is getting higher as you can't really check the gravity of the runnings to know when to stop.

 

[BrewinHooligan]

I'm guessing it's huskiness/tannins from your sparging method. Try a full volume mash with no sparge and see if that fixes it, then later you can try different sparging methods to get your efficiency back up. Hot water and higher pH allows the tannins to leach out, with the method you are using, you can't really know if the pH is getting higher as you can't really check the gravity of the runnings to know when to stop.

It's the pH not the heat that extracts tannins. If heat was the culprit decoction mashes would yeild horrible, tannin beer.

I would suggest trying a batch with bottled spring water or r/o water with mineral additions as it sounds like a possible issue with the water you are using now. While troubleshooting, only change one variable at a time.

 

[ktblunden]

Have used for all beers before without the purifier and they were all fine. I believe once I started using the purifier started getting the nasty. But that is all pre boil so wouldn't it boil off anything in the water?

According to the link I posted, boiling just concentrates the lead. Have you looked at the filter in your purifier? Maybe it's growing something?

 

[benj]

chlorine/chloramine? Do you use campden tabs?

 

[SpecialGreg]

According to the link I posted, boiling just concentrates the lead. Have you looked at the filter in your purifier? Maybe it's growing something?

checked nothing growing in it.

 

[SpecialGreg]

chlorine/chloramine? Do you use campden tabs?

no i do not do any tests on the water when brewing.

 

[benj]

no i do not do any tests on the water when brewing.

campden tabs are just a little tablet you drop in your water that removes any chlorine before heating. Is the bad taste medicinal or chemical? If so it might be chlorine...

 

[SpecialGreg]

ok so im trying to think of what i have changed since my last good beer.

so my last good beer went like this

biab style

non filtered water from the water heater 158 mash temp for 60 mins with no sparge.
then topped up to pre-boil volume with just plain water or may have just mashed with like 8 gallons and boiled what i had left over.. not really sure about that part and did my 60 min boil
and everything else went the same. oh ya and i started using yeast neutrients added at 10mins left in the boil and a whirlfloc tablet at 15
(was my first time using the new pot)

and before this i had successfully done 3 or 4 extract brews with the same unfiltered water..

 

[fizgig]

It's the pH not the heat that extracts tannins. If heat was the culprit decoction mashes would yeild horrible, tannin beer.



I would suggest trying a batch with bottled spring water or r/o water with mineral additions as it sounds like a possible issue with the water you are using now. While troubleshooting, only change one variable at a time.

It's both the pH and heat, reactions happen faster at higher temperatures, the pH is required to be high to have hydroxyl groups to make the tannins give up a hydrogen atom and become soluble, the heat makes it worse as the reactions happen much faster.

 

[BrewinHooligan]

It's both the pH and heat, reactions happen faster at higher temperatures, the pH is required to be high to have hydroxyl groups to make the tannins give up a hydrogen atom and become soluble, the heat makes it worse as the reactions happen much faster.

Exactly my point, the pH has to be off to extract tannins, not the heat. The heat will speed up the process if the pH is off, but the pH must be off for it to happen in the first place.

 

[MindenMan]

My hot water stinks of chlorine, and my cold water is just nasty. I used to use a PUR filter w/minerals and the water was great and so was the beer I brewed. I am now using a Dupont FM-100 I think, it was less expensive and actually built better. I have not been able to get any info on the filter, so I may have to put on a new filter and a sample for Ward Labs.

 

[Schmutzli]

what do you clean your equipment with? insufficient rinsing of bleach and other chemicals can make flavors like you describe- acrid, hot, caustic.

 

[logdrum]

And also, keep the lid off until it's under 100*F

 

[SpecialGreg]

what do you clean your equipment with? insufficient rinsing of bleach and other chemicals can make flavors like you describe- acrid, hot, caustic.

I clean with hot water and a sponge that has not seen any chemicals or soap. Just water. Then sanitize the day of brewing.