Bad Flavor

[TURBOANSARI]

I am new to homebrewing. My first batch turned out astonishingly delicious. The second turned out with an odd bitter flavor. The third tasted fine when i drank the sampling from the final gravity reading, but shortly after bottling I tasted a beer and i had the same odd bitter flavor. For the past three days I have been scratching my head trying to figure out why my brews are turning out so foul.

In my mind, the only reasonable explaination could be that bacteria is hiding out in the spigot of my bottling bucket. My bottling bucket doubles as my primary fermenter, but because the spigot is closed during primary fermentation, the bacteria may not be contaminating my fermenting worts until i run them through the bottling spigot. I do, however, run at least 2 gallons of soapy water and sanitizer through the spigot to before i begin the bottling process.

The other possibilities are that i am trying my beer too prematurely or that it is too hot here in South Carolina. The house might get to 85 degrees during the day, but the beer is usually kept on the cement floor which is in contact with the ground. My first brew that turned out great was brewed before the summer heat.

Can someone with more experience in brewing tell me what i might be doing wrong that is producing this odd flavor?

 

[Yeast Infection]

could be lots of things...but with out knowing alot more info:

The other possibilities are that i am trying my beer too prematurely or that it is too hot here in South Carolina. The house might get to 85 degrees during the day, but the beer is usually kept on the cement floor which is in contact with the ground. My first brew that turned out great was brewed before the summer heat.

if you are drinking them right after you bottled them...then i think you said it man....
It can take anywhere from 1 week to a few months for a beer to get good, depending on many factors.

 

[Zymurgrafi]

hmmm,

well, I do not have an immediate answer but I'll give it a go. More information will lead us to the culprit hopefully.

What is your time frame for brewing to drinking? What are the beers specifically and what are the ingredients used?

Where is the fermenter and how steady is the temp? Can you measure the air temp of the specific location and monitor?

Sanitation is always a good place to look.

Okay, so you say you ferment in your bottling bucket. Just beauase the spigot is closed does not mean the fermenting wort is safe from bacteria. Bacteria can be harbored in scratches in plastic, but in this case I would say between the wall of the bucket and the gasket on the spigot.

Those are some starter questions to help clarify...

 

[TURBOANSARI]

The first brew, was consumed within 2 weeks of bottling. like i said, that brew was good.

The second brew was consumed 2 weeks after bottling; not all the beers have been consumed yet, but the odd flavor still exists and existed when i tried the first beer about 5 days after bottling.

The third brew was just bottled over the weekend, but i tried one and it had a very similar odd flavor like the second. the wort sample i drank before bottling did not have this odd flavor. if it were bacteria contamination, would it alter the flavor this quickly?

the first batch was a malt extract kit with some specialty grains. it was a red ale with oak chips for secondary fermentation. the second and third brews were both mini-mash kits. Brown ale and IPA respectively.

 

[Zymurgrafi]

The first brew, was consumed within 2 weeks of bottling. like i said, that brew was good.

The second brew was consumed 2 weeks after bottling; not all the beers have been consumed yet, but the odd flavor still exists and existed when i tried the first beer about 5 days after bottling.

The third brew was just bottled over the weekend, but i tried one and it had a very similar odd flavor like the second. the wort sample i drank before bottling did not have this odd flavor. if it were bacteria contamination, would it alter the flavor this quickly?

the first batch was a malt extract kit with some specialty grains. it was a red ale with oak chips for secondary fermentation. the second and third brews were both mini-mash kits. Brown ale and IPA respectively.

Okay, it sounds like it was a bit too soon after bottling, but how long was total fermentation for each?

Temperatures? Steady or wildl fluctuation?

 

[Ó Flannagáin]

If your brews are in a house that hits 85 during the day, that could/will cause off-flavors... more tarty/estery than bitter though. Did you use a lot of bittering hops? Are you sure the soapy water got rinsed out thoroughly (had to ask)?

 

[TURBOANSARI]

I use a sanitizer that says not to rinse. i will probably rinse anyways for my next batch. that might be the problem.

after reading some literature on beer tasting over the weekend, i found the adjective to explain the odd taste i am noticing. the taste is almost metallic bitter. What causes this? could this be a sign of oxygenation.

again, when i am taking samples during fermentation, i always drink the sample. i drank a sample the day i bottled and i didnt noticed any odd flavor; it wasnt until i consumed the beer out of a bottle.

my problem must be occuring during bottling.

 

[Beerrific]

I use a sanitizer that says not to rinse. i will probably rinse anyways for my next batch. that might be the problem.

What is the sanitizer? Probably don't need to rinse.

after reading some literature on beer tasting over the weekend, i found the adjective to explain the odd taste i am noticing. the taste is almost metallic bitter. What causes this? could this be a sign of oxygenation.

again, when i am taking samples during fermentation, i always drink the sample. i drank a sample the day i bottled and i didnt noticed any odd flavor; it wasnt until i consumed the beer out of a bottle.

my problem must be occurring during bottling.

So why don't you describe your bottling process, detailed.

This is what John Palmer says about metallic flavors:

Metallic
Metallic flavors are usually caused by unprotected metals dissolving into the wort but can also be caused by the hydrolysis of lipids in poorly stored malts. Iron and aluminum can cause metallic flavors leaching into the wort during the boil. The small amount could be considered to be nutritional if it weren't for the bad taste. Nicks and cracks ceramic coated steel pots are a common cause as are high iron levels in well water. Stainless steel pots will not contribute any metallic flavors. Aluminum pots usually won't cause metallic flavors unless the brewing water is alkaline with a pH level greater than 9. Shiny new aluminum pots will sometimes turn black when boiling water due to chlorine and carbonates in the water.

 

[Thalon]

And here is what Dr. Lee Janson has to say about metallic off-flavors in his book Brew Chem 101:

Off Flavor
Taste of metals, especially iron, that can also be felt on the tip of the tongue, the front upper arch of the mouth, and the rear of the throat. Also described as tinny, coinlike, or bloodlike.

Source
Contact of wort or beer with uncoated or unprocessed metallic surfaces, especially iron-containing surfaces. Examples include metal (but not stainless steel) boiling pots, metal fittings, Iron-containing water and grains, iron-containing filters, and uncoated metal bottle caps and kegs.

To Avoid
Keep wort and beer away from anything containing uncoated metal parts, especially iron-containing materials. Use iron-free water, grains and filters.

 

[TURBOANSARI]

bottling process:
1. lift glass carboy up onto shelf. wait a few hours
2. while waiting, clean bottles with soapy water and a large pipe cleaner (i have started inserting the non-brush end into the electric drill to automate the brushing process.
3. drop cleaned bottles into bottling bucket filled sanitizer solution.
4. after bottles have soaked in sanitizer for an hour, i move bottles to a wire fruit basket that acts as a bottle tree to dry.
5. i allow the sanitizer to run through the spigot of the bottling bucket which is hooked to my racking tubes. (i use the same sanitizer water to sanitize all the equipment that will be used for bottling)
7. rinse out any bubbles from any of the bottling equipment with fresh water.
8. warm 2 cups of water on stove in a small metal pot.
9. as water becomes hot, dissolve in corn sugar.
10. wait for solution to boil.
11. begin racking process to move beer from glass carboy to bottling bucket. (by now the beer has resettled.
12. when i have about 2" of beer in the bottling bucket, i add the corn sugar solution and then continue to fill the bottling bucket.
13. hook tubing to botting bucket spigot and tubing to bottle filler.
14. fill bottle, fasten cap. fill bottle, fasten cap......
14. allow bottles to sit in dark room on floor (temp 70-85)

It may be the small pot i use to make the priming sugar solution, but i cant see 2 cups of bad water causing the whole batch to taste bad.

how would you describe the flavor of a beer that got contaminated with bacteria?

 

[TURBOANSARI]

Both the batches with the bad flavor were partial mash kits. could i have roasted the grains at too high of a temperature??? I got them up around 165 degrees

Are the grains from partial mash kits different from the specialty grains given when you do a malt extract kit?

 

[bitteral]

I suspect that fermentation temperatures might be the problem.

My first batch had what I considered to be an extremely bitter taste. In my case, I likened the off-flavor to be similar to the aftertaste a bad cigar leaves in your mouth (which could be similar to a metallic flavor, I guess). The off-flavor did not substantially mellow even after weeks. I'm nearly certain that in my case it was fusel alcohols caused by pitching at too high of a temperature.

If your fermenter is subjected to temps that reach 85F, I would seriously wonder if that would be the cause. That might also explain why your first batch was ok, having been brewed in the cooler climate.

But that theory doesn't explain why your second batch tasted ok at bottling, but got worse later. But even in my case, I think that the off-flavor was there at bottling time, but I didn't really notice it too much just because of inexperience---I mean what is a beginning brewer to think of the taste of the unconditioned homebrew those first few attempts?

 

[Levers101]

Where do you get your water? City tap or a well? If its a city the iron is probably either not there (surface water) or gets oxidized in the treatment process (HOCl for disinfection). If you have a well there could be boatloads of Fe(II) in it and this would definitely add to a metallic taste. I've drank water with high iron content and it sucks. (Note: not to say iron is bad, its awesome. I work with it every day, and its a good solution to a lot of pollution problems, but it tastes awful in drinking water.)