Awesome Craigslist Rant from an ACO

[Aleforge]

Beee - Essss

ATTS Temperment testing
http://www.atts.org/index.html
http://www.atts.org/testdesc.html

Some breeds commonly thought of as good pet dogs compared with pit bulls.

Breed, % passed
AMERICAN PIT BULL TERRIER 84.3%
COCKER SPANIEL 81.7%
COLLIE 79.4%
DALMATIAN 81.8%
GERMAN SHEPHERD DOG 83.5%
GOLDEN RETRIEVER 84.2%
YORKSHIRE TERRIER 82.1%

Certainly there are others that have higher pass ratings than pit bulls, but there are many, many, that fall short of them. I'm not a dog person. I will probably never own a dog. However, I don't find it fair to see an animal maligned due to media hype. Pit Bulls aren't the problem, it's ******* owners that turn them into aggressive fighting machines.

That was an interesting site, although I don't know how well I could recover from the, Subtest 4: Gunshots and the Umbrella tests.

 

[Bedlam]

People seriously get Akita's (mine posted above) and Pitt's confused? They look nothing alike! The only thing they have incommon is being heavily stereo typed as killing machines.

When I moved up here to TN, I started hearing about my "pit bull" from the neighbors. One even said to me, "Dalton (her 3 yo grandson) likes to run away so he can come pet your pit bull."

That's all well and good, except Otto is a BOXER.

I squashed the rumors quickly, before it got out of hand. I didn't want people attributing the negative things they hear about pits to my dog. Especially up here in the holler, I could see where Otto might have disappeared in short order.

 

[EvilTOJ]

I've never subscribed to the belief that just because a breed of dog is capable of being vicious, that it's normally that way by nature. It all has to do with the way the dog was raised and training it's recieved. You'd be mean and pissed off if someone poked YOU with a stick half your life!

 

[kornkob]

Beee - Essss

ATTS Temperment testing
http://www.atts.org/index.html
http://www.atts.org/testdesc.html

Some breeds commonly thought of as good pet dogs compared with pit bulls.

Breed, % passed
AMERICAN PIT BULL TERRIER 84.3%
COCKER SPANIEL 81.7%
COLLIE 79.4%
DALMATIAN 81.8%
GERMAN SHEPHERD DOG 83.5%
GOLDEN RETRIEVER 84.2%
YORKSHIRE TERRIER 82.1%

Interpreting statistics is nearly impossible without an understanding of how the testing pool was selected. This chart only shows us what the testing results are for dogs owned by people willing and able to take this test and thus may not be representative of the average animal.

Given that the test costs money to participate in and pit bulls are a much maligned breed, it seems logical that people who own calm, well socialized pit bulls are far more likely to seek out and participate in these tests, thus skewing the results in that direction.


I'm all for showing that the press is blowing things out of proportion but this doesn't really do that at all.

 

[brauhaus]

I'm surprised the Springer is the one with the good temperament. When I was a kid we had a couple Springers, both turned out to have a condition called "Springer Rage" (and no it has nothing to do with the Jerry Springer Show) it is a result of inbreeding to maintain pureblood lines so the breeder can demand top dollar for the pups. We ended up having to have both of them put down after they repeatedly turned on members of my family, including myself and I still have a decent scar on my wrist from one attack, and after one broke the line on his run and attacked a student at the secretarial school that was next to my house.

I'm am shocked as well... altho we had a cocker spaniel growing up and he was very well in the temperament department, he got alone great with big kids... babies and little kids, that was a different story.

Our cocker was very nice and never bit anyone, altho he did growl and bare teeth when little kids were around so we always, ALWAYS kept him on a lead, or he was crated.

Anyway, I'm surprised that the springer is very nice, I won't let my daughter go near their dogs b/c I don't trust our neighbors, but the springer has never barked at us once.

 

[bethlehembrewer]

I've never subscribed to the belief that just because a breed of dog is capable of being vicious, that it's normally that way by nature. It all has to do with the way the dog was raised and training it's recieved. You'd be mean and pissed off if someone poked YOU with a stick half your life!

Your correct and I agree about it being the owner. Although all breeds have different temperments. Compare a Doberman to a Bichon Frise and there is a significant difference.

 

[Fusorfodder]

Interpreting statistics is nearly impossible without an understanding of how the testing pool was selected. This chart only shows us what the testing results are for dogs owned by people willing and able to take this test and thus may not be representative of the average animal.

Given that the test costs money to participate in and pit bulls are a much maligned breed, it seems logical that people who own calm, well socialized pit bulls are far more likely to seek out and participate in these tests, thus skewing the results in that direction.


I'm all for showing that the press is blowing things out of proportion but this doesn't really do that at all.

Except you can say this for owners of all of the breeds tested, so, with everyone having the same intentions and general inclinations, the tests are rather standardized. People with calm labrador retrievers (91.8%) will seek out this test, as will people with calm shetland sheepdogs (67.4%). Since everyone is of that mindset, then that works to negate that as a variable.

 

[bethlehembrewer]

Except you can say this for owners of all of the breeds tested, so, with everyone having the same intentions and general inclinations, the tests are rather standardized. People with calm labrador retrievers (91.8%) will seek out this test, as will people with calm shetland sheepdogs (67.4%). Since everyone is of that mindset, then that works to negate that as a variable.

It doesn't really matter what breed it is. It matters that all those who might have taken part all had calm dogs, where the people who can't control thiers don't partake in the testing, leaving this variable open. If this is the case then the test has no validity, therefore the test should not be classified as standard. The only way I think this test can be standardized is if the AKC or some other governing body deems it so. You can't just make a test and claim it's the standard. If that was the case, the standard for preference for beer among men would be dark ales and porters, since that's what I like, Im a male and its my test.

 

[Homercidal]

Part of the problem is that Pitts are used to fight with. And the other problem is that when they bite, it's usually a very severe bite! They have such muscular jaws. a friend of mine had one and she was a very nice dog. She would like to play hard and "fight", but never bit, and always had a soft mouth. Good with kids too.

 

[Homercidal]

Oh, and I think the rant is awesum. Yeah, he's rough, but his points are valid and people ought to start thinking about their responisibilities as pet owners.

 

[Germey]

Many months ago, PBS had an outstanding documentary on dogs. Fascinating on several counts, but the info on behavior and aggressiveness is relevant here.
The use of dogs as companions is very very recent in the evolutionary line of most breeds. What that breed did historically for several centuries before it was asked to heel and play well with others does in fact stick with them. Of course, since they are intelligent animals, how they are raised makes a big difference on an individual basis.
Many types of smaller terriers are killers to the core. They were use primarily for killing rats and other vermin on farms an ranches.
My Dachshund has a nefarious past as well. They were used on boar hunts and would roll onto their backs to attack the boar's belly and genitals. I always keep a weather eye on him.

Our local news station did a big "story" (sensationalistic drivel really) on the "most frequent dog attack areas" and also reiterated the stats by breed.
#1 was, of course, labs, but that is an obvious numbers game based on how many f'in labs there are.
Pit Bulls were #2 or #3.
Honestly, I think that Chihuahuas and other neurotic little toy dogs would be very high on the list if most people weren't embarrassed to make a report about it.

Finally, there do need to be off leash areas (playing fetch really sucks on a leash) but people need to respect the boundaries.

 

[kornkob]

Except you can say this for owners of all of the breeds tested, so, with everyone having the same intentions and general inclinations, the tests are rather standardized. People with calm labrador retrievers (91.8%) will seek out this test, as will people with calm shetland sheepdogs (67.4%). Since everyone is of that mindset, then that works to negate that as a variable.

Except that people who own those stereotypical 'good' dogs are more likely to participate in a test with a jumpy animal than someone who owns a much maligned breed like a pit. After all, if you test your pit and it fails and he ever bites or even scares anyone, that's going to hurt in any follow on lawsuit, no matter how justified the dog was.

The bottom line is this: Self selection for testing, especially if the participant has to PAY for the test, does not result in a good pool of candidates for a population since it tells you more about the people opting into these tests than about the dogs being tested.

 

[bethlehembrewer]

Except that people who own those stereotypical 'good' dogs are more likely to participate in a test with a jumpy animal than someone who owns a much maligned breed like a pit. After all, if you test your pit and it fails and he ever bites or even scares anyone, that's going to hurt in any follow on lawsuit, no matter how justified the dog was.

The bottom line is this: Self selection for testing, especially if the participant has to PAY for the test, does not result in a good pool of candidates for a population since it tells you more about the people opting into these tests than about the dogs being tested.

Exactly. And I meant to mention the paying for a test??? WTF.

 

[bethlehembrewer]

Many months ago, PBS had an outstanding documentary on dogs. Fascinating on several counts, but the info on behavior and aggressiveness is relevant here.
The use of dogs as companions is very very recent in the evolutionary line of most breeds. What that breed did historically for several centuries before it was asked to heel and play well with others does in fact stick with them. Of course, since they are intelligent animals, how they are raised makes a big difference on an individual basis.
Many types of smaller terriers are killers to the core. They were use primarily for killing rats and other vermin on farms an ranches.
My Dachshund has a nefarious past as well. They were used on boar hunts and would roll onto their backs to attack the boar's belly and genitals. I always keep a weather eye on him.

Our local news station did a big "story" (sensationalistic drivel really) on the "most frequent dog attack areas" and also reiterated the stats by breed.
#1 was, of course, labs, but that is an obvious numbers game based on how many f'in labs there are.
Pit Bulls were #2 or #3.
Honestly, I think that Chihuahuas and other neurotic little toy dogs would be very high on the list if most people weren't embarrassed to make a report about it.

Finally, there do need to be off leash areas (playing fetch really sucks on a leash) but people need to respect the boundaries.

That is interesting although somewhat expected.

Yeah SWMBO's parents have a Jack Russel and her grandmother has a mini poodle. I love the JR to death but she can be a little **** head, and does go after all animals. I can't stand poodles to begin with and this one is probably the worst stuck up punk Ive ever seen. At one point he wouldnt let my dog or the JR eat while we were at the cottage, this went on for about a day.