Astringency in every AG Batch

[smAllGrain]

I believe I know what the issue is but i have a few questions. Before I begin here is the water report I have

Cedar Rapids, IA Water
(Ca+2) 21
(Mg+2) 13
(Na+) 14.1
(Cl-) 33
(SO4-2) 38.7
Alkalinity 86 (HCO3)
PH 8

I have been doing 3Gal Batches on my stove top, I use a BIAB Bag in a cooler. I have been using Brewers Friend to help with my calculations and so far every batch has an Astringency to it. After multiple weeks the flavor fades but this is getting really frustrated. I think the issue is one of two things. PH is off and\or small amounts of grain are getting through the bag and are being boiled. On my last batch I used Lactic Acid for the first time to try and lower my PH and the Astringency seems less than my last brew. Which, for reference, the current batch was an APA and the last batch was a Cream Ale. I do NOT have a PH meter, I am relying on Brewers Friends calculations. I use 1/2 - 1/3 campden tablets, gyspum, and Calcium Chloride to get into appropriate ranges (according to Brewers Friend)

So here are my questions.

If I use 1:1 of RO water that will lower my PH from 8 to 4 correct? But this may not be the issue as I am not sure what my Mash PH is?

Can boiling small amounts of grain cause this astringency?

Are the brewers friends calculations reliable? I use the advanced Calc tool.

I don't treat my sparge water with lactic acid so I am batch sparging with a PH of 8, will this cause my issues?

Am I adding the lactic acid correctly? I mash in, add the lactic acid to the mash, and stir the crap out of it

Any input is greatly appreciated. I have 55# of MO that is waiting to be brewed and I would love to get this under control.

 

[eluterio]

I believe I know what the issue is but i have a few questions. Before I begin here is the water report I have

Cedar Rapids, IA Water
(Ca+2) 21
(Mg+2) 13
(Na+) 14.1
(Cl-) 33
(SO4-2) 38.7
Alkalinity 86 (HCO3)
PH 8

I have been doing 3Gal Batches on my stove top, I use a BIAB Bag in a cooler. I have been using Brewers Friend to help with my calculations and so far every batch has an Astringency to it. After multiple weeks the flavor fades but this is getting really frustrated. I think the issue is one of two things. PH is off and\or small amounts of grain are getting through the bag and are being boiled. On my last batch I used Lactic Acid for the first time to try and lower my PH and the Astringency seems less than my last brew. Which, for reference, the current batch was an APA and the last batch was a Cream Ale. I do NOT have a PH meter, I am relying on Brewers Friends calculations. I use 1/2 - 1/3 campden tablets, gyspum, and Calcium Chloride to get into appropriate ranges (according to Brewers Friend)

So here are my questions.

If I use 1:1 of RO water that will lower my PH from 8 to 4 correct? But this may not be the issue as I am not sure what my Mash PH is?

Can boiling small amounts of grain cause this astringency?

Are the brewers friends calculations reliable? I use the advanced Calc tool.

I don't treat my sparge water with lactic acid so I am batch sparging with a PH of 8, will this cause my issues?

Am I adding the lactic acid correctly? I mash in, add the lactic acid to the mash, and stir the crap out of it

Any input is greatly appreciated. I have 55# of MO that is waiting to be brewed and I would love to get this under control.

Are you sure its what you think? If it fades away with time it might just be a green beer.

With out having a PH meter there's no way of knowing what the ph will drop to. Have you considered just using straight RO water? You can also get PH strips that are close to being accurate.

I haven't used Lactic Acid yet but I think your using it correctly.

Whats your entire process? You maybe doing something on the cold side that is causing your beer to have the same odd taste. Don't get too frustrated someone here on this forum will help answer all your questions.

Personal experience, it took me several batches to figure out that my water jugs where the issue in contaminating my extract batches. Once I pbw and sanitized them I killed off the nasties.

 

[smAllGrain]

Are you sure its what you think? If it fades away with time it might just be a green beer.

With out having a PH meter there's no way of knowing what the ph will drop to. Have you considered just using straight RO water? You can also get PH strips that are close to being accurate.

I haven't used Lactic Acid yet but I think your using it correctly.

Whats your entire process? You maybe doing something on the cold side that is causing your beer to have the same odd taste. Don't get too frustrated someone here on this forum will help answer all your questions.

Personal experience, it took me several batches to figure out that my water jugs where the issue in contaminating my extract batches. Once I pbw and sanitized them I killed off the nasties.

Thank you for the response, I know I just need to relax and have a homebrew but its hard when it tastes the way it does lol

When I say it fades with time the taste is still there it is just less present.

First thing I do is I get my water from my sink and put it in my 5 Gallon bottling bucket. I then treat my water with Campden, gypsum, ect. Mix it in really well. Bring my water up to strike temp and poor it into the cooler lined with the bag. I pour in my grains and mix it really well, add lactic acid, mix again, leave for 60min. Vourlaf into kettle, bring Sparge water up to 170F (although the last batch I sparged with cold water). Dump in sparge water, mix, leave for 10 min, vourlaf, drain. Bring to boil. I know I am getting a few pieces of grain through the bag so idk if that is the problem. Sanitize equipment while boil is going. Add hop additions, add whirlfloc at 15 min along with wort chiller, chill down to 68 or lower, Dump the wort through a strainer into my fermentor, pitch yeast. Goes into a water bath and kept around 62-68F.

I don't have any issues when I do extract so it makes me think its my water. I wanted to try diluting with RO to see if that reduces the issue but I may need to go all RO and build up my water.

When using RO all minerals are 0?

 

[brewing_clown]

Do you acidify your sparge water?

 

[smAllGrain]

Do you acidify your sparge water?

I do NOT. I was wondering if that was part of the issue and if I need to mix my tap with RO to lower my PH from 8 to 4? How do you go about just adding acid to sparge water?

 

[byrone]

Adding RO will not drop the ph by half but it will drop the mineral content of the water by almost half. You want to set a target of 5.8 for your sparge water. Since you do not acidify your sparge water the astringency could be from the mash ph raising above 6 which will pull tannins out of the grain husks as you sparge. A easy fix to this is to use RO water to sparge with as it should have a lower ph than your tap water.

Also do you monitor the sparge as it runs into the kettle? I ask because if your final runnings go below a gravity of 1.008 then you risk extracting tanins and other undesirables as well.

 

[Yooper]

I do NOT. I was wondering if that was part of the issue and if I need to mix my tap with RO to lower my PH from 8 to 4? How do you go about just adding acid to sparge water?

You water pH doesn't matter- what matters is the alkalinity. When you sparge, you want the alkalinity to be near 0 if possible. RO water would be perfect for sparging, or you can acidify the water you have to neutralize the alkalinity.

Bru'n water has a tool for neutralizing the alkalinity of sparge water if you're not using 100% RO water for the sparge- I highly recommend it!

That could definitely be where some tannins are coming from.

Check your mash pH predictions with either bru'nwater or Brewer's Friend (they are generally very close) and aim for a mash pH of 5.3-5.4 for best results for lighter colored beers.

 

[brewing_clown]

I bought some 85% Phosphoric Acid on Amazon and use that. I use the Brewer's Friend and Bru'n Water tools to figure out how much to add.

I had similar astringency issues and am working through the water chemistry aspect of brewing too. The alkalinity of my local water is 201. My latest batch after acidifying mash and sparge waters is much better.

 

[smAllGrain]

Adding RO will not drop the ph by half but it will drop the mineral content of the water by almost half. You want to set a target of 5.8 for your sparge water. Since you do not acidify your sparge water the astringency could be from the mash ph raising above 6 which will pull tannins out of the grain husks as you sparge. A easy fix to this is to use RO water to sparge with as it should have a lower ph than your tap water.

Also do you monitor the sparge as it runs into the kettle? I ask because if your final runnings go below a gravity of 1.008 then you risk extracting tanins and other undesirables as well.

I do not monitor the final runnings but I have a refractometer so I will start monitoring that. I read that you don't want it below 1.010 is that correct?

 

[jbaysurfer]

RO water typically has a PH between 5-6. You're doing math as though it has a PH of zero.

 

[smAllGrain]

You water pH doesn't matter- what matters is the alkalinity. When you sparge, you want the alkalinity to be near 0 if possible. RO water would be perfect for sparging, or you can acidify the water you have to neutralize the alkalinity.

Bru'n water has a tool for neutralizing the alkalinity of sparge water if you're not using 100% RO water for the sparge- I highly recommend it!

That could definitely be where some tannins are coming from.

Check your mash pH predictions with either bru'nwater or Brewer's Friend (they are generally very close) and aim for a mash pH of 5.3-5.4 for best results for lighter colored beers.

When using Brewers Friend I always enter my grain Lovibond and shoot for around 5.3 - 5.4 (pretty sure you gave me that advice on another thread I had up)

So it sounds like the best bet is to go with 100% RO for sparging.

Any concern with the small amount of grain that might get into the boil?

 

[byrone]

I do not monitor the final runnings but I have a refractometer so I will start monitoring that. I read that you don't want it below 1.010 is that correct?

I would highly reconmend it escpecially since you have a refractometer. Depending on who you ask there are different opinions on how low you can go. 1.008 - 1.012 is the general range with 1.008 being the lowest. I personally aim for the high side at 1.012 but if I occasionally need a bit more volume I'll strech it to 1.010. But that is the lowest I go.

 

[smAllGrain]

RO water typically has a PH between 5-6. You're doing math as though it has a PH of zero.

Are you saying that is how I should do the math or you are assuming that is how I am doing the math? I have been totally neglecting the sparge water PH from my tap

 

[smAllGrain]

I would highly reconmend it escpecially since you have a refractometer. Depending on who you ask there are different opinions on how low you can go. 1.008 - 1.012 is the general range with 1.008 being the lowest. I personally aim for the high side at 1.012 but if I occasionally need a bit more volume I'll strech it to 1.010. But that is the lowest I go.

Say I need a higher volume and I'm at 1.010 -1.008? Do you just call it and go with the volume you need?

 

[smAllGrain]

So if I under stand correctly, I should continue treating my water as I am for the mash. Brewers friend is accurate enough to do that? Use 100% RO water to sparge, and monitor my runnings to make sure I don't go below 1.008?

 

[Greenbasterd]

could it possibly be the milling process?

just thought i'd throw that out there. you guys are going crazy science on me here.

 

[smAllGrain]

could it possibly be the milling process?

just thought i'd throw that out there. you guys are going crazy science on me here.

I have had my grains milled by my local homebrew shop and I have had them milled from Midwest with the same issues. Looking over the BJCP off flavor flash cards that is a possible reason you would get astringency but I don't believe that is the issue in this case.

 

[smAllGrain]

You water pH doesn't matter- what matters is the alkalinity.

This is only for the sparge correct? I do need to worry about my mash PH? Do I need to worry about mash alkalinity?

 

[Yooper]

This is only for the sparge correct? I do need to worry about my mash PH? Do I need to worry about mash alkalinity?

Yes, of course. But the WATER pH doesn't matter a whit. A water pH of 8.5, but with little alkalinity, is fine, even for sparging as long as the alkalinity is low.

The mash pH is crucial. But the pH of the water doesn't affect mash pH, only very indirectly. It's the alkalinity of the water (the bicarbonate) that impacts the mash pH. The grains will buffer some of that, but not all. Most light colored grainbills require some acidity to lower the pH. That is often added by phosphoric acid or lactic acid, or by acidulated malt.

 

[smAllGrain]

Yes, of course. But the WATER pH doesn't matter a whit. A water pH of 8.5, but with little alkalinity, is fine, even for sparging as long as the alkalinity is low.

The mash pH is crucial. But the pH of the water doesn't affect mash pH, only very indirectly. It's the alkalinity of the water (the bicarbonate) that impacts the mash pH. The grains will buffer some of that, but not all. Most light colored grainbills require some acidity to lower the pH. That is often added by phosphoric acid or lactic acid, or by acidulated malt.

Ok since my Bicarbonate is 86(correct?) my alkalinity is high? Thus the need for RO for sparging. The grain will lower the bicarbonate so that isn't an issue with my mash?

Say I am brewing a dark beer and my mash PH is 4. Is this too low?

Also, since I have your attention and you are very knowledgeable is the small amount of grain getting into my boil an issue?

The only thing I should change in my current process is to use 100% RO for Sparge and monitor my final runnings?

Sorry to blow you up

 

[Yooper]

Ok since my Bicarbonate is 86(correct?) my alkalinity is high? Thus the need for RO for sparging. The grain will lower the bicarbonate so that isn't an issue with my mash?

Say I am brewing a dark beer and my mash PH is 4. Is this too low?

Also, since I have your attention and you are very knowledgeable is the small amount of grain getting into my boil an issue?

The only thing I should change in my current process is to use 100% RO for Sparge and monitor my final runnings?

Sorry to blow you up

Yes, you've got it. At least most of it. A mash pH of 4 is way too low, but unless you dump a ton of acid into it, it's impossible to get that. You want a mash pH of 5.3-5.5 ideally.

A small amount of grain won't hurt anything.

Yes, use 100% RO for sparging, or acidify your sparge water appropriately via the 'sparge water acidification tool' in bru'n water.

The other imperative thing is to ensure a proper mash pH, and for lighter colored beers (since darker grains bring down the pH more than lightly kilned grains, use acid of some sort to get your pH to 5.3-5.5. Most people need to do that, often even with 100% RO- and with an alkalinity in the 80s, for lighter colored grainbills, you will too. For a stout, probably not.



That's about it!

 

[smAllGrain]

Yes, you've got it. At least most of it. A mash pH of 4 is way too low, but unless you dump a ton of acid into it, it's impossible to get that. You want a mash pH of 5.3-5.5 ideally.

A small amount of grain won't hurt anything.

Yes, use 100% RO for sparging, or acidify your sparge water appropriately via the 'sparge water acidification tool' in bru'n water.

The other imperative thing is to ensure a proper mash pH, and for lighter colored beers (since darker grains bring down the pH more than lightly kilned grains, use acid of some sort to get your pH to 5.3-5.5. Most people need to do that, often even with 100% RO- and with an alkalinity in the 80s, for lighter colored grainbills, you will too. For a stout, probably not.



That's about it!

Yooper you are the best!! Thanks for taking the time to help I really appreciate it.

One last questions... for now

I have a smoked porter on deck and my mash PH is low. I want to say low 4's (need to check my notes) How would I go about raising that? remove some of the dark malts? Salt additions?

 

[mabrungard]

Yeah, about the lowest pH any common brewing grain can produce is about 4.5. So its unlikely that an overall mash pH could be below 4.5. The lowest mash pH I've ever witnessed is 4.9.

 

[Yooper]

Yooper you are the best!! Thanks for taking the time to help I really appreciate it.

One last questions... for now

I have a smoked porter on deck and my mash PH is low. I want to say low 4's (need to check my notes) How would I go about raising that? remove some of the dark malts? Salt additions?

Yeah, about the lowest pH any common brewing grain can produce is about 4.5. So its unlikely that an overall mash pH could be below 4.5. The lowest mash pH I've ever witnessed is 4.9.

He's the expert- so I absolutely would use his advice, and I agree that it would be impossible to have a pH that low. Something is wrong- is this a projected mash pH from bru'nwater or Brewer's Friend? Or something else?

 

[smAllGrain]

Yeah, about the lowest pH any common brewing grain can produce is about 4.5. So its unlikely that an overall mash pH could be below 4.5. The lowest mash pH I've ever witnessed is 4.9.

Yeah turns out I forgot to change my grain type to roasted and that threw it way off. Always good to double check your calculations. Really appreciate all of the advice. Cheers

 

[mchrispen]

The small amount of grain in the boil is not likely going to create strong astringency, but you really don't want it there. I am assuming you are only getting like a teaspoon full. Otherwise just pass the wort through a strainer into the kettle.

On another post, Martin Brungard mentions 30 ppm alkalinity as the upper limit level for sparge water. Lower the better. At 86 your alkalinity is moderate and can be easily treated with acid, much like you are doing with the mash. Use the acid to get your mash pH in line... and if you are using any of your tap water in the sparge, acidify that to reduce the alkalinity below 30. As mentioned, Bru'n Water can help you estimate the acid required.

As for the dark beer. Yes, mash pH should be between 5.2 and 5.6 for any beer, so 4.x is very low. The dark malts you are deploying naturally acidify the mash, lowering pH. Rather than using acid, you should consider using baking soda or pickling lime (be careful with the lime!) to raise the mash pH to 5.4. Again, Bru'n Water or even Brewer's Friend tools should help you estimate the addition necessary. Alkali should be added directly to the mash, not the strike water, and very thoroughly stirred in.

I should also add that if you are seeing such a low mash pH, you may want to check the accuracy and stability of your pH meter. Always calibrate and confirm the calibration before measuring your mash pH.

 

[smAllGrain]

So after seeing that I messed up on my calculations I went through and played with Brewers friend some more. I am thinking that I can get away with adding Lactic Acid to my sparge water instead of making another trip to the store for RO water. So here are some more questions Mainly the questions are. Am I calculating this correctly? A total of 3.5ML of Lactic Acid in 5 Gallons of water (3Gal of Beer) too much? FYI these calculations are for 3Gal Batches

First the Smoked Porter just calls for 1.26ML Lactic in the Sparge water. The Salts will be added to the total volume of water



Here is a SMASH with only 6# Maris Otter. This Calls for 2ML in the mash and again 1.26ML in the sparge water. Again Salts added to the total Water Volume.



How's it look?

Also, would I mash in, add lactic for mash, mix, mash for 60 min. Then for the Sparge water just add lactic, mix, bring to temp, sparge?

I see that in some places my RA is negative? Smoked is -16.7 in the overall water report and 3.93 ppm in the Mash Report

.59.9 for the SMASH in the Overall water report and 5.37ppm in the Mash report

Sorry for the long post, just want to make sure I am making the best beer. Oh also, I dont want any more astringent beer

Cheers

 

[Yooper]

What are you making? I can't quite make it out.

If you're making an IPA, that last water profile looks good. If it's not an IPA or a hoppy/bitter pale ale, the sulfate needs to come down a LOT.

I argue with the first profile, with 150 ppm of chloride- WAY too much and overload. It's also too much sulfate, unless you're making an IPA- and with that much sulfate and chloride it'll be very minerally and not good.

 

[smAllGrain]

What are you making? I can't quite make it out.

If you're making an IPA, that last water profile looks good. If it's not an IPA or a hoppy/bitter pale ale, the sulfate needs to come down a LOT.

I argue with the first profile, with 150 ppm of chloride- WAY too much and overload. It's also too much sulfate, unless you're making an IPA- and with that much sulfate and chloride it'll be very minerally and not good.

The second profile will be for an IPA or a PA the first profile is for a Smoked Porter and my actual calculations are as follow

(CA+2) 74
(Mg+2) 13
(Na+) 14.1
(Cl-) 84
(So4-2) 97

The Profile shows what they suggest and the Actual is right below that.

Actual can also be found in the "Overall Water Report"

Is this too much? I mad additions until the calculator suggested I was in a good range.

 

[Yooper]

The second profile will be for an IPA or a PA the first profile is for a Smoked Porter and my actual calculations are as follow

(CA+2) 74
(Mg+2) 13
(Na+) 14.1
(Cl-) 84
(So4-2) 97

The Profile shows what they suggest and the Actual is right below that.

Actual can also be found in the "Overall Water Report"

Is this too much? I mad additions until the calculator suggested I was in a good range.

Yes, I'd reduce the sulfate to almost none as it can really 'dry' the finish and create some harshness in beers with roasted grains. A calcium level of 50 ppm is good, so you could reduce the gypsum (or eliminate it totally) to get the sulfate much lower, and the calcium can be lower as well (although not mandatory).

 

[smAllGrain]

Yes, I'd reduce the sulfate to almost none as it can really 'dry' the finish and create some harshness in beers with roasted grains. A calcium level of 50 ppm is good, so you could reduce the gypsum (or eliminate it totally) to get the sulfate much lower, and the calcium can be lower as well (although not mandatory).

Ca+2 Mg+2 Na+ Cl- SO4-2 HCO
49.8 13.0 14.1 84.0 38.7 38.824

How does this look for a smoked porter? Where do you get your water profiles from?

 

[jbaysurfer]

Are you saying that is how I should do the math or you are assuming that is how I am doing the math? I have been totally neglecting the sparge water PH from my tap

I honestly have forgotten. LOL..I don't have time to reread the thread, but I (think) I recall you asking if you cut your 8.0ph water 1:1 with RO would it give you 4.0PH. So that's what I was addressing. Sorry if I misread, or confused anything. You're in good hands here.

 

[Yooper]

Ca+2 Mg+2 Na+ Cl- SO4-2 HCO
49.8 13.0 14.1 84.0 38.7 38.824

How does this look for a smoked porter? Where do you get your water profiles from?

Yes, that looks pretty good!

As far as 'profiles', I don't use any specific profile for the most part.

I use 100% RO water for Bohemian pilsner, and 100% of my tap water for oatmeal stout- and every thing else is somewhere in between. I target a mash pH of 5.4 or so for most lighter colored beers, 5.5-5.6 for my oatmeal stout, and then use calcium in 50-80 ppm in the vast majority of my beers (not lagers usually).

I use modest amounts of flavoring ions like chloride and sulfate, generally, but in one recipe I use 250 ppm of sulfate. The rest of my IPAs I make generally at 150 ppm of sulfate. For my malty beers, I use some calcium chloride in RO water or a mix of RO water and my tap water to get the right mash pH and some chloride.

Most of my grainbills require some acid to get to 5.4 pH.

I don't target a 'profile', though.

 

[mchrispen]

You should be kicking back on the beach with a beer, and a plate of blacktip right now Yooper!

 

[smAllGrain]

Yes, that looks pretty good!

As far as 'profiles', I don't use any specific profile for the most part.

I use 100% RO water for Bohemian pilsner, and 100% of my tap water for oatmeal stout- and every thing else is somewhere in between. I target a mash pH of 5.4 or so for most lighter colored beers, 5.5-5.6 for my oatmeal stout, and then use calcium in 50-80 ppm in the vast majority of my beers (not lagers usually).

I use modest amounts of flavoring ions like chloride and sulfate, generally, but in one recipe I use 250 ppm of sulfate. The rest of my IPAs I make generally at 150 ppm of sulfate. For my malty beers, I use some calcium chloride in RO water or a mix of RO water and my tap water to get the right mash pH and some chloride.

Most of my grainbills require some acid to get to 5.4 pH.

I don't target a 'profile', though.

I will be using all of this info going forward. I guess the next stop is looking into how each piece of the water chemistry affects beer. I had no idea that if the sulfate was too high it can dry out the beer, which you might want in an IPA.

Do you know a good resource to learn how the other components affect the flavor? Calcium, Magnesium, sulfates, sodium, chloride, bicarbonate?

Also, Can RA be too low? Is the idea that 2ML of Lactic Acid per Gallon is the threshold? Just want to make sure I am not missing anything else. Your time and input is invaluable to this water chemistry noob :cross:

Cheers

 

[smAllGrain]

After some hardcore googling this is what I have found.

Do you know a good resource to learn how the other components affect the flavor? Calcium, Magnesium, sulfates, sodium, chloride, bicarbonate?

http://www.homebrewing.com/articles/water-chemistry.php

http://www.howtobrew.com/section3/chapter15-1.html

http://www.winning-homebrew.com/brewing-water.html

http://www.netplaces.com/home-brewi...ercent-of-your-beer/basic-water-chemistry.htm

Also, Can RA be too low?

"No! RA is not a criterion for beer production. Only mash pH matters." mabrungard

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f128/totally-confused-about-residual-alkalinity-345493/index2.html

Is the idea that 2ML of Lactic Acid per Gallon is the threshold?

The answer is yes (forgot the link for this)

Hope this helps someone in the future

Cheers

 

[peterj]

I do not monitor the final runnings but I have a refractometer so I will start monitoring that. I read that you don't want it below 1.010 is that correct?

I just wanted to add that since you're batch sparging, there's no need to check the gravity of your runnings. They will be the same the entire time you're draining the sparge. That's only something you need to worry about when you're fly sparging.

And I was going to add that you should forget that you ever heard the term "Residual Alkalinity" because it is virtually useless to brewers, but it looks like you figured that out already!

 

[Yooper]

This is my favorite place to read about those ions and what they do:
https://sites.google.com/site/brunwater/water-knowledge

That whole page is packed full of good stuff, so I'd read it all but for a synopsis of what sulfate, chloride, etc, do, scroll down on that page.

 

[smAllGrain]

Alright, for anyone that comes across this. I bottled two days ago and the off flavors I experienced are gone!!! Usually my sample is "hot" & astringent. Def didnt taste that this time. Treating sparge water for the win! Will be back in 3 weeks after they are done bottle conditioning. Appreciate everyones help!

Cheers

 

[ajdelange]

"No! RA is not a criterion for beer production. Only mash pH matters."

RA was originally intended for comparing brewing waters to which purpose it is well suited. It sort of got turned into on of those supposedly magical parameters from which all things can be divined. It is clearly not that. But it is the proton deficit of the water which is, clearly, an important component of the mash. The problem with the spreadsheets that tried to base all on RA is that they didn't compute the proton deficits of the other mash components or didn't do it properly. Typically RA was combined with acid additions giving the proton deficit of water plus acid. The proton deficits of the malts are equally important if a good pH estimate is to be obtained.