Apple season is coming!!! Q's about presses

[AzOr]

I know it's a bit early but harvest is just around the corner for those of us who live north of the equator.

I've rented the old type of presses in the past and they kinda suck. This year I'm thinking of dropping some coin and getting a bladder press. They seem to work really well and I don't mind investing in equipment since I plan on using it for years.

I could also put together a harbor freight type of press. Although the convenience of a bladder press is very tempting.

Q1- Has anyone on this board tried the EJWOX? It's significantly cheaper but if I'm dropping serious coin, I want it to last.

Q2- Anybody own or use the 40L that wishes they bought the bigger 80/90L?

Bonus Q- Has anyone here pressed winesaps for cider? Last fall I bought a box of them for eating and they were delicious. They have a bit of a red wine twang. But I was wondering how that translated to a fermented product. I live in the Pac NW so I think I can buy enough bushels to make 10-15 gallons but it won't be cheap so I wanted feedback if possible.

Thanks a ton. This forum is great!

 

[Chalkyt]

I don't make enough cider to warrant too much flash gear (home made scratter and second hand basket press), but a few weeks ago I went to our regional apple growing area's Batlow Ciderfest, which features a lot of small /part time producers.

One of the new small producers was Crafty Cider. The owner (Tony Cross) literally just started producing his first product with this year's crop. As I recall, he is using a bladder press and was quite enthusiastic about it. Tony doesn't seem to have a web site, but Crafty Cider is on Facebook. He is very enthusiastic and helpful so it might be worthwhile trying to contact Tony if you can't get any feedback from others.

Cheers

 

[AzOr]

Thanks Chalkyt- I'll check it out. The EJWOX is significantly cheaper than other bladder presses. So much so that by the time I source all the parts for a harbor freight hydraulic press it may be a wash.

 

[wasully]

This will probably be my first season pressing as well. I'm looking at a shop press + some cutting boards for a rack & cloth press.

There is a 20L EJWOX bladder press, too. http://www.ejwox.com/product/1131/

Thanks Chalkyt- I'll check it out. The EJWOX is significantly cheaper than other bladder presses. So much so that by the time I source all the parts for a harbor freight hydraulic press it may be a wash.

What do you mean source the parts? Just buy a shop press whole, and some cutting boards. Poof, you've got a rack & cloth press.

https://www.harborfreight.com/20-ton-shop-press-32879.html
https://www.harborfreight.com/12-ton-shop-press-33497.html

Get some big cutting boards for racks. You should be pressing for under $200 with the smaller one. Call it another $200 for a grinder, but you gotta get that for the bladder press too.

Using the guidelines in The New Cider Maker's Handbook by Jolicoeur, the 12 ton will press ~1 bushel and the 20 ton ~3 bushels. (How convenient the dimensions for these presses line up well with the examples in the book). The 40l EJWOX looks like it would do ~2 bushels for comparison. The harbor freight models are ~twice as much force as recommended though. I don't know enough to see if that would be a downside, but I don't think so.

I hope not at least, because the 12 ton setup is probably what I'll go for if I do press this year. For far cheaper than the bladder press.

But, I admit, probably more work and less sexy. I don't want to deal with capturing and recirculating the water to power the bladder though. And am unwilling to just waste the water. Though I suppose the waste/cost isn't all that significant for pressing just a few bushels.

 

[AzOr]

Hi Wasully-
Please don’t take my response as being snarky or agitational. I love this forum and think this is a great conversation.

I’m leaning toward a more expensive bladder press for a few reasons-

One being ease of use. I’m thinking of two scenarios;

-the first being hosting a cider party. I can deal with cleaning equipment and making sure the process is running smoothly while a "newb" is running the press.
-I'm by myself and I can (hopefully) turn the valve on the water line and start grinding apples while the press is filling w water.

As far as wasting water- I'm pretty good with collecting water and using for cleaning or putting in the garden. When using my immersion chiller for beer, I store up to 20 gallons of hot water in a large barrel and wait till it cools then use in garden over the next few days. I've even used that water to wash my truck.

I know this isn't the cheapest route but much like my brewing equipment, it'll get used.

btw- If you press this season, what do you plan to use for a grinder?

ps- I still wanna hear from others who have used a hydropress. Wine people?

 

[wasully]

Hi Wasully-
Please don’t take my response as being snarky or agitational. I love this forum and think this is a great conversation.

I was brainstorming outloud, not being confrontational. Sorry if I came off that way.

I will likely rent a grinder from the homebrew shop, but not the press because all they have is a little tiny thing. I'm eyeing the 7L Ejwox hand grinder though: http://www.ejwox.com/product/1141/ Or this one: https://morewinemaking.com/products/apple-crusher-manual.html?a_aid=cidersageblog because the blades pre-crushing appeal to me(like hell do I want to halve or quarter the apples before grinding them). And motorize if necessary.


It sounds like you've thought things through for your position. The cider party thing is a great point. I'm a lazy romantic, so I want a more traditional press, but don't want to build one. And frankly, for the price of those shop presses? I don't think I could build one cheaper unless I'm harvesting and milling the wood myself-at which point I should've done it years ago for the lumber to age&dry. Maybe they won't work! I dunno, I've got time to figure it out.

I'm still tempted by that 20L hydropress because of portability though. But I need to solve the water waste thing.

I would check the cider reddit and cider workshop google group. I feel like more people are traditional there(especially the cider workshop), rather than brewers who buy juice and want to bottle it in 2-3 weeks and drink in 4 here.

(Full disclosure: I just planted trees this year though, so I'm still buying juice)

 

[madscientist451]

I'd go with the bladder press. You can also use it for wine.
You can always sell it when you don't need it anymore.
Quicker and easier to fill with the pulp and easier to clean.
You can probably get better juice extraction from the cloth/rack press, but reject "juice apples" are pretty cheap and unless you are doing large volumes that shouldn't matter that much.
I'd spend the extra $ and get the 10 gallon version.

 

[AzOr]

I was brainstorming outloud, not being confrontational. Sorry if I came off that way.

I will likely rent a grinder from the homebrew shop, but not the press because all they have is a little tiny thing. I'm eyeing the 7L Ejwox hand grinder though: http://www.ejwox.com/product/1141/ Or this one: https://morewinemaking.com/products/apple-crusher-manual.html?a_aid=cidersageblog because the blades pre-crushing appeal to me(like hell do I want to halve or quarter the apples before grinding them). And motorize if necessary.


It sounds like you've thought things through for your position. The cider party thing is a great point. I'm a lazy romantic, so I want a more traditional press, but don't want to build one. And frankly, for the price of those shop presses? I don't think I could build one cheaper unless I'm harvesting and milling the wood myself-at which point I should've done it years ago for the lumber to age&dry. Maybe they won't work! I dunno, I've got time to figure it out.

I'm still tempted by that 20L hydropress because of portability though. But I need to solve the water waste thing.

I would check the cider reddit and cider workshop google group. I feel like more people are traditional there(especially the cider workshop), rather than brewers who buy juice and want to bottle it in 2-3 weeks and drink in 4 here.

(Full disclosure: I just planted trees this year though, so I'm still buying juice)

Take less showers. Works for me.
Using the old basket presses takes a lot of work. The operator needs to hydrate with water or beer. Think of the hydropress as saving water and beer.

 

[Maylar]

Being a competent woodworker, I'd consider something like this:

https://pleasanthillgrain.com/maple-creek-diy-apple-cider-press-wine-press-kit

 

[gregbathurst]

I use an 80L lancman press. It takes about 35kg of apples for about 25L of juice(just approximate). You have to fill the whole press so if you only want to do 20kg at a time the smaller press is good. If you are doing 100s of kg the larger press is better. To improve the yield you prefill the bladder a bit before putting in the fruit. I do red and white wine, for whites I stomp the grapes first but press with the stems, for reds the fermented skins are easy to press.

 

[AzOr]

I use an 80L lancman press. It takes about 35kg of apples for about 25L of juice(just approximate). You have to fill the whole press so if you only want to do 20kg at a time the smaller press is good. If you are doing 100s of kg the larger press is better. To improve the yield you prefill the bladder a bit before putting in the fruit. I do red and white wine, for whites I stomp the grapes first but press with the stems, for reds the fermented skins are easy to press.

Thank you for that info. It took me a bit to convert metric. Damnit Reagan!
This is helpful. The yield #s are close to what I have read.

 

[wasully]

Dang, that's a great yield. I thought it was worse for some reason.

 

[MiBeerMan]

I know you are wanting to do your own but I just found out a local cider/meadery is looking into an expensive press and said they plan on offering their services to those with their own apples to grind and press. Just throwing that out there. On a side note, you mentioning the equator, I live almost 2-3 miles from the halfway point of the north pole and equator. Now your day is complete

 

[AzOr]

I know you are wanting to do your own but I just found out a local cider/meadery is looking into an expensive press and said they plan on offering their services to those with their own apples to grind and press. Just throwing that out there. On a side note, you mentioning the equator, I live almost 2-3 miles from the halfway point of the north pole and equator. Now your day is complete

That's something to consider. I do know that most cideries in the Portland area order juice from Hood River. I don't know of any who do there own pressing. Maybe Bull Run does. There are a bunch of apple festivals around here. I could poke around to see if anyone would do the pressing.

To be honest, I kinda like the work and the process involved though. Coming from the beer side, I feel like I have to work for my sugar.

 

[007]

I use the Pleasant hill stainless press and grinder combo. Works great, put wheels on the bottom for easy movement.

 

[AzOr]

I ended up getting a stainless hydropress from Pleasant Hill Grain. This last weekend I processed about 150lbs of apples by myself. It took me just about three hours for a total yield of 14 gallons.

Holy cow that press is great! It was spendy but I imagine I will be using it for a couple of decades.
I think if two people are pressing, it could be done in less than half that time.

Next pressing I'll take pics of my setup.

 

[Masbustelo]

Azor You asked about Winesaps for cider. They are a famous cider apple, some say the best. I pressed three gallons last year, it might have been the best cider I ever had. We drank it fresh.

 

[Sequoiacider]

AzOr: I'm late to this party, but I'm glad to see you got the Bladder press from PHG. I have the 40L(10G) one from PHG and I couldn't be happier. I don't think a larger one would fit my needs, as I like to keep my pressing batches single-varietal and you must fill the press at least 2/3rds full for any batch.
Did you end up getting the electric grinder as well? Hand grinding hundreds of lbs of apples (a typical pressing day for me) sounds like a nightmare. With the electric grinder I simply dump buckets of apples in at a time and it handles it quickly and easily.
Winesaps are wonderful Cider apples (hence the name), and I have excellent results using Winesaps for single-varietal cider. I even entered my Winesap single varietal cider into the local homebrew cider competition, and it took 2nd place overall (behind one of my other ciders).

 

[AzOr]

Yeah I’m pretty happy with the press. That thing is built like a tank.
I too have the 40L and when I first set it up I was thinking it was gonna be a bit small. But I’m getting apples and pears from different places and times, so the size works out well as I can press whenever I want.

I’m currently collecting crab apples and I don’t want anymore than what will be one pressing worth.

I’m using a garbage disposal grinder. I got the 1hp waste king. It works really well but you do have to constantly stand there and feed the apples. I mounted it to one of those portable fish cleaning tables so it’s nice to have a big cutting table attached.

Cleaning is a snap with the hydropress. I take it apart and hose it down-that’s it. Takes me 5 min at most.

With this set up, it’s not a huge hassle to grind and press. In fact, I can easily do one or two pressings after work and still have time for all other dad stuff I have to do.

 

[Sequoiacider]

I agree about that press being built like a tank. Gotta love stainless steel construction.

I used to use a Garbage disposal grinder, also one that I made myself using a 1hp Waste King. I built a wooden stand, installed a cheap stainless steel sink basin and attached the disposal. It worked really well, but when I upgraded to a real grinder the difference was incredible.

I used to have to cut the apples to size and feed them into the disposal grinder, regularly pushing them down and giving the grinder periodic breaks to prevent overheating. With the proper electric grinder, I just dump all but the biggest apples in whole, by the bucketfull. Sooo much easier and less time consuming. It is pricey though. I got lucky, and a relative who likes my cider saw my setup, and gifted me the nice grinder.

The one advantage to a Garbage disposal grinder is the fact that it grinds to a very fine pulp, which really does maximize the juice extraction efficiency. This is evidenced by your Fruit Lbs/Juice Yield ratio of 10.7lbs per Gallon. With my setup, I typically see between 13-15lbs per gallon, with really juicy fruit getting down to around 12lbs per gallon. In my opinion, this loss in efficiency is more than made up for by the improvements in time and bodily abuse.

 

[AzOr]

Yeah I already realize that my disposal grinder is the choke point in my process. Chopping apples is a huge pita.
With two or more people, the grinder is fine. I ran it for just shy of an hour and it did great. No overheating, tripped breaker etc.
I’m limiting myself to one splurge per season. And that was the hydropress.

It’s still light years ahead the hand crank rental type of grinders.

I don’t need another reason to spend my kids’ college money.

 

[gregbathurst]

I use a garden shredder. It works like a proper apple mill but is made from mild steel. Every season I take it apart and give all the internal parts that are exposed to juice a few coats of polyurethane paint. The shredder was free from a relative who wasn't using it. One day I plan to bey a proper apple mill but my shredder works fine.

 

[AzOr]

I agree about that press being built like a tank. Gotta love stainless steel construction.

I used to use a Garbage disposal grinder, also one that I made myself using a 1hp Waste King. I built a wooden stand, installed a cheap stainless steel sink basin and attached the disposal. It worked really well, but when I upgraded to a real grinder the difference was incredible.

I used to have to cut the apples to size and feed them into the disposal grinder, regularly pushing them down and giving the grinder periodic breaks to prevent overheating. With the proper electric grinder, I just dump all but the biggest apples in whole, by the bucketfull. Sooo much easier and less time consuming. It is pricey though. I got lucky, and a relative who likes my cider saw my setup, and gifted me the nice grinder.

The one advantage to a Garbage disposal grinder is the fact that it grinds to a very fine pulp, which really does maximize the juice extraction efficiency. This is evidenced by your Fruit Lbs/Juice Yield ratio of 10.7lbs per Gallon. With my setup, I typically see between 13-15lbs per gallon, with really juicy fruit getting down to around 12lbs per gallon. In my opinion, this loss in efficiency is more than made up for by the improvements in time and bodily abuse.

Hey Sequoiacider-
What varieties have you been pressing this year?
So far I’ve only pressed Gravensteins mixed with a few lbs of unknown crabs, and some neighborhood pears. I’ve been freezing all my juice.

In a bit I’m getting a couple hundred lbs of bitter/sweets and sharps that I plan on mixing w Gravensteins (sharps).

As far as the pears go, I’m planning on freeze concentrating for a pear wine.

I live in Portland and check Craig’s. I’m amazed at

 

[Sequoiacider]

So far it's been primarily Gravensteins, though I did press a small batch of Gala so far. Gravenstein went straight into the fermenter for wild fermentation, the Gala I pasteurized for future use.

So far those have been the only varieties ready yet from the trees I have access to. There are tons of fruit on the trees that, but most of them look like they've got at least a few weeks before they are ready.

 

[dmf38]

Last year I got one of the 14L basket presses from Home Depot. It works great for the amount of cider I make, and it's very durable.

 

[dlutter]

I don't know about the bladder press, but it looks potentially better than my ratchet screw type press.

I do own the 7L EJWOX grinder http://www.ejwox.com/product/1144/ and have been very happy with it. It fits well over a 5 gal bucket but has a tendency to slide around. Buildings some sort of sturdy stand would greatly improve the grinding experience.

 

[Sequoiacider]

I don't know about the bladder press, but it looks potentially better than my ratchet screw type press.

It's like a completely different world. Instead of using your muscle power to turn a big ratchet screw, you simply turn on the tap water to inflate the bladder and the Juice just stats flowing.

I do own the 7L EJWOX grinder http://www.ejwox.com/product/1144/ and have been very happy with it. It fits well over a 5 gal bucket but has a tendency to slide around. Buildings some sort of sturdy stand would greatly improve the grinding experience.

Looking at that grinder gives me ideas. It definitely looks like it would benefit from some sort of stand. It also looks like it may be possible to hook a cheap electric motor to it.

 

[dlutter]

Looking at that grinder gives me ideas. It definitely looks like it would benefit from some sort of stand. It also looks like it may be possible to hook a cheap electric motor to it.

I've had the same thoughts about a motor.

 

[AzOr]

I recently ran across one of these grinders on CraigsList. Looks like the guy put an electric motor and mounted it on a plywood baseplate.
If it weren’t a 4 hour drive I woulda checked it out.

 

[wasully]

I don't know about the bladder press, but it looks potentially better than my ratchet screw type press.

I do own the 7L EJWOX grinder http://www.ejwox.com/product/1144/ and have been very happy with it. It fits well over a 5 gal bucket but has a tendency to slide around. Buildings some sort of sturdy stand would greatly improve the grinding experience.

What's the size of the pomace? Is one pass fine, or is yield improved by going a 2nd time?

 

[AzOr]

So I've discovered one major drawback with my hydropress....friends and neighbors think it's so easy to use that they bring by buckets of their apples to press. I feel like they guy with a pickup that everyone wants to borrow.

It is a million times easier to use than a basket press but it is still work. Clean up is still a huge pita.

 

[Blacksmith1]

Shouldn't have bragged about it.

 

[AzOr]

Lesson learned.

But it’s hard getting a new beer/cider toy and not bragging.

 

[gregbathurst]

At least you can build up a store of favours owed- things like child/pet minding, loans of equipment etc. In Europe it is standard for people in a village to share equipment like crushers, presses and stills. It makes a lot more sense than everyone having to buy their own equipment.

 

[blasterooni]

It's like a completely different world. Instead of using your muscle power to turn a big ratchet screw, you simply turn on the tap water to inflate the bladder and the Juice just stats flowing.


Looking at that grinder gives me ideas. It definitely looks like it would benefit from some sort of stand. It also looks like it may be possible to hook a cheap electric motor to it.

This guy attached a drill to it

 

[AzOr]

That's pretty cool. I saw something similar on CL. He hooked up a electric motor/pulley. It was an 8hr roundtrip to pickup, and I didn't have the time.

I've been using a garbage disposal grinder mounted to folding plastic fish cleaning table. It's ok, however it is still the choke point in the process. Especially if using larger apples that have to be quartered before. You basically have to feed the apples one or two at a time and cram them into processor with a wooden dowel. I do like the efficiency of the disposal though. It almost grinds to an applesauce consistency.

 

[gregbathurst]

Chopping all those apples up by hand, that's a lot of work. To get decent speed you need to be able to process whole apples. Using my garden shredder and hydropress I can press 250kg of apples in a day or more. I am planning to get a proper apple mill sometime but my orchard got frosted this year so it isn't urgent.

 

[blasterooni]

That's pretty cool. I saw something similar on CL. He hooked up a electric motor/pulley. It was an 8hr roundtrip to pickup, and I didn't have the time.

I've been using a garbage disposal grinder mounted to folding plastic fish cleaning table. It's ok, however it is still the choke point in the process. Especially if using larger apples that have to be quartered before. You basically have to feed the apples one or two at a time and cram them into processor with a wooden dowel. I do like the efficiency of the disposal though. It almost grinds to an applesauce consistency.

Bet you get a great juice yield nevertheless! I found some crabs, and a half grocery bag of apples today Firing up that damn juicer soon as i have a little over a bushel now. I hope to pick another bushel by the weeks end