Apfelwein: lees vs. oxygen, which is worst

[TRueff]

I'm currently fermenting my second batch of Apfelwein - the first batch was good, I drank most of it too early but found that bottles kept getting better with time and was able to establish a good timing schedule for future batches. I didn't rack the first batch to secondary - I think it sat in the primary for about two months.

I'm, always looking to improve, and I'm thinking I should rack this new batch to a secondary. My question is, however, is it worth the oxygen exposure associated with this process (I've had some pretty nasty outcomes with previous ciders & cysers due to oxygen exposure).

Which is worse: oxygen exposure dureing the racking to secondary, OR letting the apfelwein set on lees in primary for over a month?

Also, does anyone know about the consequences of light exposure (e.g. A clear carboy in a room with windows)?

Thanks and cheers!,,

 

[Maylar]

Oxygen is your enemy now. The key to racking is to use a siphon and rack to a vessel that has no air space above. That means finding a properly sized carboy or a combination of jugs that will accept your final volume. Example, 5 gallons might become 4-1/2 gallons which would fill a 3 gal + 1 gal + 1/2 gal carboys to the top. Can't have too many 1 gallon jugs

That said, sitting on the lees for 2 months will not hurt your wine. But I like to age my brews at least 4 months and I like them to be clear, so everything goes into secondary.

 

[TRueff]

Oxygen is your enemy now. The key to racking is to use a siphon and rack to a vessel that has no air space above. That means finding a properly sized carboy or a combination of jugs that will accept your final volume. Example, 5 gallons might become 4-1/2 gallons which would fill a 3 gal + 1 gal + 1/2 gal carboys to the top. Can't have too many 1 gallon jugs

That said, sitting on the lees for 2 months will not hurt your wine. But I like to age my brews at least 4 months and I like them to be clear, so everything goes into secondary.

Thanks! So it sounds like the oxygen exposure which occurs during the actual process of racking is negligible, so long as ive got the proper carboy set up (I.e. Not too much head space)?

This is a 5 gallon batch, would topping off secondary with apple juice (and restarting a bit of fermentation) be terrible problematic? I've seen recommendations to use sanitized marbles to reduce headspace if you don't have a smaller carboy, which sounds cool, but a little bit of a pain.

Also, what would you recommend as a good rule of thumb as a time period for letting cider/apfelwein sit on lees, since you say 2 months is not problematic?

 

[MindenMan]

You could always ask Yooper about what she does when racking her apfelwines, she has been making wines for a very long time.

 

[TRueff]

You could always ask Yooper about what she does when racking her apfelwines, she has been making wines for a very long time.

Not familiar with her. Will search, thanks!

 

[TRueff]

You could always ask Yooper about what she does when racking her apfelwines, she has been making wines for a very long time.

Not familiar with her, will search. Thanks!

 

[TRueff]

@yooper

 

[MindenMan]

She is very good about answering PM's and she is always willing to help.

 

[Maylar]

Thanks! So it sounds like the oxygen exposure which occurs during the actual process of racking is negligible, so long as I've got the proper carboy set up (I.e. Not too much head space)?

Avoid pouring (glug-glug) lol, just use accepted siphon practices and minimize any air that might get into the line and you'll be fine. Yes, the key is to rack to a container with a narrow neck so that the air above is a small area. See the pic below.

This is a 5 gallon batch, would topping off secondary with apple juice (and restarting a bit of fermentation) be terrible problematic?

Some people do that. I prefer to use multiple carboys, but I have a good selection of sizes to choose from.

I've seen recommendations to use sanitized marbles to reduce headspace if you don't have a smaller carboy, which sounds cool, but a little bit of a pain.

It'd be a LOT of marbles for a 1/2 gallon or so.

Also, what would you recommend as a good rule of thumb as a time period for letting cider/apfelwein sit on lees, since you say 2 months is not problematic?

You'll get different answers on that. Some folks don't secondary at all and allow their ciders to sit on the lees for months. I don't go more than a month, and have never had off flavors.

Typical secondary for me... 5 gallons becomes 4.5 ...

A 1/2 gallon jug with marbles for headspace -

 

[TRueff]

Excellent! Thanks so much for the time and effort you put in to your comments. All sounds good and makes sense. Much appreciated!


I'm still thinking about how best to eliminate headspace without having to get another carboy (got limited space as is, at the moment). I've got some finished cyser that I could use in place of fresh juice - wouldn't referment, but I'm also not thrilled with the taste (which is why it's lying around in the first place). I'm not crazy about this idea because of the potential for effecting my final flavor.

Wonder if I could put a large water balloon(s) down in the carbon to take up space? Wonder if the balloon material would mess with taste?

 

[buMbLeB]

I'd definitely avoid using balloons, not only due to their taste but I'm not sure how they might behave in the presence of alcohol. I normally just use different size containers, but I have topped up with apple juice before, it did restart fermentation on a small scale so you just have to wait it out, I think it's your best option.