Anyone use hot tap water for brewing?

[Mongo64]

Thanks for all the input guys. I think that since my gas water heater is 2-3 years old and the pipes in the house are copper I'm probably gonna give this a try. I'll try out the taste test first though. I may dump a few gallons from the bottom of the tank first to see if any sediment is there.

I remember hearing the guys on the Jamil show say that the state of California did some testing of breweries that use copper equipment and found no excess Cu in the beer. So it appeared that the Cu stayed behind with the yeast or was precipitated during the ferment. I am wondering if the same thing would happen with other elements like Mg from the anode rod. I don't think the water picks up that much Mg anyway. Those things usually last longer than the water tank around here.

 

[scone]

My hot water comes out cloudy, sort of a dense cloud of tiny tiny little particles, that rather quickly settles out but from the bottom up. Anyone know the explanation behind that?

 

[flyerwire]

My hot water comes out cloudy, sort of a dense cloud of tiny tiny little particles, that rather quickly settles out but from the bottom up. Anyone know the explanation behind that?

does it go away and no sediment is left over? If so its just air bubbles, if there is sediment, it is most likely minerals from your hot water heater

better quick explanation :
If the glass of water clears from the bottom upwards it is thousands of air bubbles, if it clears from the top downwards it is some form of solid or sediment in the water

 

[scone]

aha thanks. yeah no sediment, but i was curious about the phenomenon. in other news, the water doesn't taste so good, but then neither does my tap water.

 

[flyerwire]

aha thanks. yeah no sediment, but i was curious about the phenomenon. in other news, the water doesn't taste so good, but then neither does my tap water.

i always run mine through a charcoal filter slowly and it does wonders to remove most of the "taste"

I have my water profile and i've been trying understand all this water mojo but its still somewhat above my head

 

[Scut_Monkey]

Edit: Skipped a page of this thread and didn't notice this article was already posted. Regardless.....

Yeah it's from 1973 but its not a cutting edge debate that bacteria can live in hot water sources. The study showed that hot water tanks commonly have bacterial contamination not shown in the same cold water source. HOWEVER, who really cares. We are talking preboil and these bacteria most likely will be killed during the boil. If they aren't killed they aren't likely to be capable of surving in beer or out competing a healthy yeast pitch in wort.

Furthermore, who cares if we are using bacterial contaminated hot water for bathing etc. We eat, drink and inhale bacteria all day everyday without concern or alarm. These aren't pathogenic bacteria and they are not at extreme levels of contamination.
http://aem.asm.org/cgi/reprint/25/1/72.pdf

Just an article supporting the factoid that we carry more bacterial cells in our bodies than all the "human" cells in our body.
http://www.scientificamerican.com/a...ns-carry-more-bacterial-cells-than-human-ones

 

[HoppyDaze]

And where did the water in your water heater come from? Do you have separate water supply that feeds the water heater?

Radical Concept: multiple plumbing pipes....or are you actually arguing that all water in your house goes through the water heater first?

 

[Rottnme]

I vaguely recall something that I believe is in John Palmers book How To Brew on hot water use being okay for extract and not okay for AG brewing. Something to do with the softening process removing necessary minerals that our friends the yeast need if I remember correctly. I'll try to check when I get home and update....

 

[mmb]

Radical Concept: multiple plumbing pipes....or are you actually arguing that all water in your house goes through the water heater first?

uhhh All the water in my house comes from the same source, regardless of hot or cold... a well.

That's what Rushis was referring to.

 

[HoppyDaze]

well yeah...thats the case for everyone, no?

anyway back to the topic...don't drink the water!!!

 

[Scimmia]

I vaguely recall something that I believe is in John Palmers book How To Brew on hot water use being okay for extract and not okay for AG brewing. Something to do with the softening process removing necessary minerals that our friends the yeast need if I remember correctly. I'll try to check when I get home and update....

Water softening and water heating are two completely different things.

 

[shortyjacobs]

I switched to hot water a while ago and it had no discernible affects on my beer.

Other than the fact that it comes out of my tap at 148 degrees . At the 0.8 degree/secondish heating time on my propane burner, if I blink I miss my strike temp!

 

[Beernip]

Ok, everyone needs to come up to the year 2000 now. Tankless Water-heater FTW!

Been using this for about a year and works great! No tank for your water to sit in and get stale, sediment or to let bacteria grow. Comes out of of the hose at a stead 145*. Connect my hose directly to the unit in my garage and heat the water on demand. Hell I could fill a 55 gallon barrel with 145* water if I wanted without running out.

 

[Scut_Monkey]

Tested my water last night with a hot water sample that was cooled to room temp and a cool water sample warmed to room temp. Both tasted EXACTLY the same. I tried very hard to discern a difference but there was no difference there. So..... I'm going to try using hot water from here on out. Makes more sense obviously when it's already 80 degrees warmer than the cold water.

 

[jmo88]

Ok, everyone needs to come up to the year 2000 now. Tankless Water-heater FTW!

Been using this for about a year and works great! No tank for your water to sit in and get stale, sediment or to let bacteria grow. Comes out of of the hose at a stead 145*. Connect my hose directly to the unit in my garage and heat the water on demand. Hell I could fill a 55 gallon barrel with 145* water if I wanted without running out.

what is this magical device you speak of. I rent so I doubt it will influence me either way, but I'm curious.

Tested my water last night with a hot water sample that was cooled to room temp and a cool water sample warmed to room temp. Both tasted EXACTLY the same. I tried very hard to discern a difference but there was no difference there. So..... I'm going to try using hot water from here on out. Makes more sense obviously when it's already 80 degrees warmer than the cold water.

that's good. I wish my water tasted the same. I wouldn't be bothered by undetectable may-or-may-not-be-present water heater boogeymen

 

[Beernip]

what is this magical device you speak of. I rent so I doubt it will influence me either way, but I'm curious.

If you rent you are most likely out of luck. If you are building or own and already have natural gas it is a good fix.
http://www.rinnai.us/tankless-water-heaters/learn-about-tankless/how-tankless-works/

Mine has a digital display on the front of it that lets me adjust the temp from 98* - 145* in increments. When I wash out my carboys I lower it down to 98* but when I fill buckets, preheat MLT, or pots it is at 145*. I've seen commercial models that will go up to 180*. Imagine if you could fill your MLT from the at 160* and just let it cool down to the mash temp. *drool* No waiting around for the water to heat up.

I've been curious if the same technology could be used to a to help heat the water faster. Like a reverse immersion cooler. Coil some 3/8 copper pipe around the jets of a banjo burner and use a march pump to move it through the system. I imagine you could tune the flame based on a temp probe at the output.

Edit: Crap just looked and may be able to upgrade the controller on my to go up to 160* for only $100. Hello Instant Mash. Come on Santa! I believe in you still.

 

[apologeticus]

As a noob, the only thing I can add to the conversation is this: you can boost your perceived IQ if you refrain from using the term "hot water heater." If the water is already hot, why do you need a heater? Just call it a "water heater" and neurotic people like me can sleep better at night. Thanks!

 

[shortyjacobs]

I've been curious if the same technology could be used to a to help heat the water faster. Like a reverse immersion cooler. Coil some 3/8 copper pipe around the jets of a banjo burner and use a march pump to move it through the system. I imagine you could tune the flame based on a temp probe at the output.

I feel like someone here did this...I feel like it was Yuri? Copper pipe coiled inside of the shell of a corny with a cast iron burner blasting up the center or something...

Edit, my bad, it was FSR402: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f11/flash-boiler-project-2-a-82839/

 

[Rottnme]

Threadjack...

As an architect I will just say that before buying a tankless water heater do your research. They are not the best solution in all applications and there are better and far more efficient methods available depending on your hot water use demands.

...jackoff.

 

[cheezydemon3]

Exactly what are you using tap water for post boil?

My tap water (cold) is fine for topping up, no problems.

Wouldn't the boiling process take care of most of that?

....exactly. That's why I said pre boil use of hot water only.

 

[OLDBREW]

As a noob, the only thing I can add to the conversation is this: you can boost your perceived IQ if you refrain from using the term "hot water heater." If the water is already hot, why do you need a heater? Just call it a "water heater" and neurotic people like me can sleep better at night. Thanks!

The term "Hot Water Heater" comes from having two separate heaters in the house that heated water. If you have closed hydronic water heat, the heating system is a water heater, or water boiler when used for steam applications.

To discern between the two type heaters, the potable water heater was called the "hot water heater", and the hydronic heat unit was called the hot water boiler, although it never boiled water, unless it was a steam heat system.

 

[ibbones]

I had a tankless water heater. I am in an all electric house so no chance for Natural Gas. I want through two heaters in about four years. I did like the fact that 10 people could take a shower on the same day and never run out of water but (I think) the turning on the hot water on and off and on again at the kitchen sink really pulled the power and it would burn itself out.
I have been wanting gas at my house and it's just not avalible yet but when it does get here, I will have a gas tankless system, as well as a stove and dryer.

 

[cheezydemon3]

cheezydemon,
I sincerely apologize for the lack of tact and in appropriate candor of my post.

The rest of HBT community,
Thank you for putting me in my place.

@MMB Naturally you are correct I hadn't considered the operating temperature of a typical water heater. Anything below 140 and thermophilic bacteria can survive. Above that temp even bacterial spores are destroyed. I believe that is consistent with the recommendation to increase your water heater temp if you encounter a sulfur smell in your hot water.

I have done worse! No harm.

 

[mitch171]

...I have been wanting gas at my house and it's just not avalible yet but when it does get here, I will have a gas tankless system, as well as a stove and dryer...

Why isn't it available? My parents don't have town gas or anything, they have a tank that the company comes and fills every so often. Not a very big one either. Nothing like that available?

 

[winstonofbeer]

I used to use cold water in my brews and heat it up with the propane burner.
Got the wild idea after awhile of running a garden hose thru my basement from the water line to the washing machine, Why not hook it up to the hot water also...
Worked great for about 4 brews then the hose blew....SWMBO was pissed when i had a gusher spraying all over the basement...OOPS....


After that, I plumbed in hot and cold from the washing machine lines around the walls of the basement and punched a hole by the door that goes from outside to the basement.

Since then i have been useing the hot water to fill the tank and heat up...Takes about 10 minutes to hit 165. Use that water for MT and Sparge. After that just switch the line to the cold and voila got a direct line for the wort chiller.

I DO have a inline water filter that connects right where the water comes into the house so the entire house except outside runs thru the filter first. So minerals and deposits are gone. Water tastes great...
Beer tastes good. Never had any problems.

Has taken some time off my brew day...Makes easy to get water for cleanup and preheating mashtun since the water comes out at 145 or so...

Oh, I used PVC for the cold water, CPVC for hot water....Learned the PVC is great for cold...but wont stand the hot water...so pvc 1.25 for a 10' stick CPVC was i think 3.75 for a 10" stick.

I had to let the lines run for awhile to get the pvc particals out of the line and get any off flavors...Basicly when it tasted good on hot and cold i started to use it for brewing...Not untill.

Basicly, What has been said 20x allready....If the water tastes good, great....If not, Rethink useing the water.

 

[blk94f150]

I use hot water in all my brews and haven't had a problem yet. However I do maintain my water heater regularly and with its size and the flow of my shower heads it gets completely cycled frequently.

If you're worried about minerals and metals in your water, never look at the old pipes if they replace your mains. They can have inches of buildup. We've had hydrants that have gained 500 more GPM just by replacing built up pipes with new ones.

Mike

 

[ibbones]

Why isn't it available? My parents don't have town gas or anything, they have a tank that the company comes and fills every so often. Not a very big one either. Nothing like that available?

Yes, I could get the propane tank but I am in an older neighborhood that was built in the 60's and all electric so there was no gas available. There are no plans for the local gas company to run lines down our street (yet) but I am hopeful. I have been thinking about the tank in the back yard but my local guys want me to order 100 gallons minimum and at this time I would only be brewing with it. It would not pay for itself.

 

[mitch171]

If brewing is your only use then of course it doesn't make sense. My parents use to be all electric, but switched to propane for heat and it brought their cost way down. Seeing you are in Texas I am sure that isn't an issue for you though. If you switch to a gas water heater and stove/oven, then it would make sense.

 

[barleynhops]

I always use hot tap water for mash and sparging. Saves a lot of time and propane. I've never had a problem with contamination doing this.

 

[Wade E]

How about if you have domestic hot water where your oil fired furnace heats up your hot water? Will that change your water profile. still no good? Maybe a filter before the HLT?

 

[Vinic]

Ok, everyone needs to come up to the year 2000 now. Tankless Water-heater FTW!

Been using this for about a year and works great! No tank for your water to sit in and get stale, sediment or to let bacteria grow. Comes out of of the hose at a stead 145*. Connect my hose directly to the unit in my garage and heat the water on demand. Hell I could fill a 55 gallon barrel with 145* water if I wanted without running out.

+1 on the on-demand idea. I installed one of these in our guest house a couple years ago.

http://www.titanheater.com/

Recently I installed a 'T' in the outlet to fill hlt. If the unit is turned all the way up and the flow is restricted a bit, the temp can get up to 154*.

 

[forces]

I can attest to the salty-metallic taste that can be produced by using hot tap water. It seems some have experienced it, and some haven’t. It also seems logical that the style and age of your particular water heater and the minerals in your tap water are the true variables. I just started skipping the whole tap water endeavor and am now using filtered spring water from the local store. It’s cheap enough at $1.00/ gallon. Not because of HOT tap v.s. VOLD tap, but because I brew extract and often have to top off the fermenter after adding the chilled wort and worry about adding cool tap water from the sink. Whats an extra $6.00 if it means replacing a questionable ingredient that composes 95% of your finished beer?

 

[SOB]

Whats an extra $6.00 if it means replacing a questionable ingredient that composes 95% of your finished beer?

For some AG brewers $6 is 1/2 to 1/3 the price of ingredients for an entire batch.

 

[brewmonk]

Apart from a couple good chuckles, and a cringe or 3, this makes me want to drain my tank immediately until I can afford a tankless. (Afterall, I want my brewing to be a tankless job)

 

[cheezydemon3]

I used to use cold water in my brews and heat it up with the propane burner.
Got the wild idea after awhile of running a garden hose thru my basement from the water line to the washing machine, Why not hook it up to the hot water also...
Worked great for about 4 brews then the hose blew....SWMBO was pissed when i had a gusher spraying all over the basement...OOPS....


After that, I plumbed in hot and cold from the washing machine lines around the walls of the basement and punched a hole by the door that goes from outside to the basement.

Since then i have been useing the hot water to fill the tank and heat up...Takes about 10 minutes to hit 165. Use that water for MT and Sparge. After that just switch the line to the cold and voila got a direct line for the wort chiller.

I DO have a inline water filter that connects right where the water comes into the house so the entire house except outside runs thru the filter first. So minerals and deposits are gone. Water tastes great...
Beer tastes good. Never had any problems.

Has taken some time off my brew day...Makes easy to get water for cleanup and preheating mashtun since the water comes out at 145 or so...

Oh, I used PVC for the cold water, CPVC for hot water....Learned the PVC is great for cold...but wont stand the hot water...so pvc 1.25 for a 10' stick CPVC was i think 3.75 for a 10" stick.

I had to let the lines run for awhile to get the pvc particals out of the line and get any off flavors...Basicly when it tasted good on hot and cold i started to use it for brewing...Not untill.

Basicly, What has been said 20x allready....If the water tastes good, great....If not, Rethink useing the water.

Sorry, gotta re-iterate...

HOT WATER + GARDEN HOSE = LEAD LINED BEER

Regardless of whether or not it tastes OK, it is killing more brain cells than alcohol alone could ever hope to.

 

[Daddymem]

I tried hot water for my mash for the first time. I figure I am pretty low risk as my house is only a couple years old. I have pex piping, and I used my kitchen sink. I filled up a gallon juice jug and dumped into a 5 gallon cooler until filled. Put that out in my kettle and put the flame on. Went back inside and filled up again. Topped off the kettle and within minutes I had my mash temp. Nice.

I don't think I'd push it. But it got me thinking. In the summer, a metal pot out in the sun would heat up quite a bit during the day before you brew....

 

[Scut_Monkey]

Sorry, gotta re-iterate...

HOT WATER + GARDEN HOSE = LEAD LINED BEER

Regardless of whether or not it tastes OK, it is killing more brain cells than alcohol alone could ever hope to.

Can you elaborate? Did you already post this somewhere? I don't see the connection.

 

[tbeard]

This is a simple physics problem, cold water boils faster than hot water, hot water freezes faster than cold water. If you don't believe me give it a try.

 

[Scimmia]

This is a simple physics problem, cold water boils faster than hot water, hot water freezes faster than cold water. If you don't believe me give it a try.

I can only assume this is a troll.

Just because hot water can, in some circumstances, freeze before cool water does not make the opposite true.

 

[Vinic]

This is a simple physics problem, cold water boils faster than hot water, hot water freezes faster than cold water. If you don't believe me give it a try.

'Might want to read this.​