Anyone up for another group brew project?

[Vex3521]

Was curious if anyone would be interested and what style would be interesting and fun to go for. I love the solera brew project so thought I'd put this out there to also up our gallons for the year =)

I'd say something not citrus.... I have so much citrus stuff going lol! Otherwise I'm pretty open to ideas! Figured we can kick ideas around and even debate out recipe(s) in here before we kick one off if there's interest enough.

 

[Vex3521]

My initial thoughts were doing historical brews or a pyment project since we do see a lot of mels going or hopped meads or seems like a lot of us have some form of pepper/spicy variations going.

Was also thinking stone fruit like cherry (frozen locally were on sale big time) or colder season fruits like cranberry as well. But I'm open to anything new and interesting!

 

[TandemTails]

I'm interested in trying something like this. Depending on when this starts, we should plan around what season it's going to be when we're ready to drink it. For example, a tropical fruity melomel probably won't be as appreciated in January as it would in June.

I'm up for trying just about anything though. I've been experimenting with lambic style meads but I know a lot of people would be hesitant to try something like that due to contamination issues.

 

[Vex3521]

Lambic really could be interesting. I'm on lockdown from buying more equipment until after we move so I'd be stuck with that until early fall when things are settled after moving and getting everything established.

Really true on time of year start and when we'd be expecting to drink so if we started March/April we'd be looking at 6 months Sept/Oct so feasibly it'd be fall drinking at earliest, more likely holiday drinking unless folks wanted to age out a full year and be drinking in spring. So that does leave some room to debate.

We could always run a traditional primary and let everyone drop whatever fruit, spice, etc into secondaries but that seems less fun then a bunch of us doing about the same thing like over in the solera bochet project.

 

[fuelish]

I' For example, a tropical fruity melomel probably won't be as appreciated in January as it would in June.

Sure it would, just turn up the heat or gather around a fire I put no seasons on what I consume

 

[Arpolis]

If we want to try something really original and rarely seen around here we can try a lactomel made with real milk. I have been interested in some kind of flavored lactomel for a while. Chocolate lactomel?

 

[Vex3521]

wouldn't a lactomel be using whey as in curds and whey (not whey protein) Can get that easily enough if you have access to raw milk or just run the old strain out yogurt through cheese cloth process.. or if you happen to make cheese lol. But I am liking this idea =)

What's everyone else think??

 

[Arpolis]

I think the idea of a lactomel is to use raw or whole milk. In the process it curdles and separates leaving the whey and lactos bellow the curd. I thought a cheese from this would be interesting. Maybe not if it was chocolate though.

 

[Niklaas1212]

I'm definitely down for anything different. A group brew sounds awesome.

 

[Vex3521]

I think the idea of a lactomel is to use raw or whole milk. In the process it curdles and separates leaving the whey and lactos bellow the curd. I thought a cheese from this would be interesting. Maybe not if it was chocolate though.

I've found a couple recipes using milk and/or lactose tablets with notes that it didn't turn out exactly or would need possible lemon additions and no updates so I kept searching! I didn't know if we'd want to go more the braggot route and work off a milk stout which I think would work well also.

I think this is the best recipe and write up I'm seeing. Looks promising and worth giving a shot

http://blog.cheesemaking.com/milk-mead-lactomel-with-andrew-luberto/

What's everyone else think??

 

[Arpolis]

I want to do this but can't start a new project for a while. By the time I get some spare cash/time will be next weekend and shortly after that I will be on vacation for a couple weeks. I would have no time to tend to the brew. But by 3/18 I should be good to start something if others want to do this.

I am thinking the hardest part of this will be contamination. Probably be required to do a good dose of Camden 24 hour before yeast pitch. Then probably need a good bacteria/yeast fighting yeast. Like Lalvin k1v-1116. Mix up 1.25 gallon whole milk along with 1-3lb of honey. Staggered nutrients. Pitch yeast after Camden treatment. Wait till you can separate curd from whey. Rack whey/must into gallon carboy on top of 1oz coca nibs. Finish ferment. Rack every 30 days till brilliant clear. Stabilize and sweeten as appropriate. That would be my general plan without fully reading that site you posted or looking too much into this.

The curd can probably be recombined with any leftover whey and some water. Add rennet and culture like you would for cheese making and make you some cheddar.

 

[Vex3521]

So is the 19/20th of March something that works for others interested?

And then does lactomel work?

A month gives us time to narrow down any changes folks may want to make if they're using a different recipe found online or the whey based one I found... or if we want to get creative and just do our own.


I love the idea and will have the freed up equipment needed by then. This lack of carboy thing is driving me nuts! An empty one is a bad thing but running out is just as evil!!!

 

[Synaster]

I'd like to be in as well.. Let me know what you decide. I have a lot of meads going in the basement. Most in Secondary and a few in primary.. I have plenty of empty buckets and about 25 lbs of Orange blossom honey ready..

 

[rcreamer0713]

Would be interested to do something out of my comfort zone. But i wont be able to do anything till after april. So if it goes on that long im in.

 

[Vex3521]

That'd be fine! Anyone can jump in when they've got time or open carboys even if it's after start. With a month or so on time you'd be able to see notes on failures, successes or things that we'd tweak going back to do this again so I think you get the upper hand! We'll do a formal group brew thread for the recipes folks are using and techniques as well once we get going. Right now just dropping thoughts and ideas in here looking forward to getting this project going!

I know for my lactomel I am absolutely making a mozzarella to have at that fresh whey and keep with the recipe I linked in earlier because it's less "off the reservation" for me. I like pushing limits but I'm playing this one a little more safe. I haven't made cheese since my gram was alive so I'm pretty rusty...but figure hopefully it's like something else in cooking you don't do too much and can remember once you get it running.

I know using citric acid in my cheese that I'm probably going to oak since the article does mention that chardonnay quality the acid will give so I want to balance that down and work with the complexity a bit. As far as other additions I'm not sure yet and really have to see what impressions I get when it's going. I love milk stouts and was debating some of those notes but I want this to be more unique so I guess we'll see where it wants to go!

I know the big joke right now is if it's going to be "worse" than my hopped one because apparently it reeked of feet according to my husband. I never got that smell and judges liked it so I'm blaming that on his hate of all things hops.

 

[bernardsmith]

I have made koumis before (with cow milk , not mare's milk) and a version of koumis with honey (and indeed chocolate).. the curds that you take off are incredible - very sweet.. and the lactomel can take a fair amount of time to be pleasantly drinkable. In fact, about a week ago I cracked open a bottle I had made about a year ago and it was surprisingly fruity. But bottom line, I never had any problems fermenting the milk and I used 71B. That said, I would use a bucket as the primary and not a carboy. Removing curds from a carboy is not easy.

 

[Vex3521]

Great point on going bucket vs carboy! I am really looking forward to this brew and everyone's results. It's different that's for sure and with luck we'll really see some greatness here!

 

[TandemTails]

Does anyone have any tasting notes for what a lactomel should end up like? I've been reading a little bit about them and can't really find any info on taste other than the lactose from the whey providing a little creamier mouthfeel.

I guess my questions about this are:

1. As a group brew, do we come up with one recipe for everyone to follow or do we all try to make our own?

2. Does the milk provide any flavors or is it going to be the honey that shines through?

3. Is the liquid 100% whey or is it a little bit of whey mixed with water? I'm not sure how many of us are going to want to produce 1-5 gallons of whey to add to the honey.

It sounds like an interesting project and if getting the whey isn't too hard then i'm in to a 1 gallon batch.

 

[bernardsmith]

TandemTails, I am not sure that you need to produce the whey before you pitch the yeast. The yeast itself will ferment the milk and in that fermented liquid the whey will separate from the curds.. I am not sure that you need a "recipe".. You simply add enough honey to the milk to create the starting gravity you want and then you pitch the yeast. No need to dilute anything with water - this ain't beer. The milk will dilute the honey to bring that down to a gravity that the yeast can cope with.

Because the must will produce curds you may want to increase the amount of milk you begin with to perhaps a gallon and a half (and match the amount of honey to that volume) so that you will have a gallon of lactomel fermenting and not 6 pints..
The only tasting notes I have is that the koumis (or lactomel) I made reminded me of a Sauterne but there is also a sharper taste that I cannot identify as wine-like

 

[Arpolis]

Yea for my batch the plan is:

2 gallon fermenting bucket
1.5 gallon whole milk
1tsp yeast nutrient
Honey 2lb (I have some nice raw honey from my hives with comb floating in it for this)
Yeast: Lalvin k1v-1116

Let ferment. Stepping yeast energizer over the week. Once fermentation slows and there is a thick cap of curd I will remove and strain liquid into gallon just on top of 1oz coca nibs. Let sit over a month then rack off sediment. Continue racking every 30 days till brilliantly clear. Add additional coca nibs if in need of more flavor. Bottle once flavor is right.

 

[TandemTails]

TandemTails, I am not sure that you need to produce the whey before you pitch the yeast. The yeast itself will ferment the milk and in that fermented liquid the whey will separate from the curds.. I am not sure that you need a "recipe".. You simply add enough honey to the milk to create the starting gravity you want and then you pitch the yeast. No need to dilute anything with water - this ain't beer. The milk will dilute the honey to bring that down to a gravity that the yeast can cope with.

Because the must will produce curds you may want to increase the amount of milk you begin with to perhaps a gallon and a half (and match the amount of honey to that volume) so that you will have a gallon of lactomel fermenting and not 6 pints..
The only tasting notes I have is that the koumis (or lactomel) I made reminded me of a Sauterne but there is also a sharper taste that I cannot identify as wine-like

Interesting. Thanks for the response. The recipes i found all mentioned using whey so you wouldn't have any milk fat to contend with during fermentation. I guess you'd just rack off it it after a few weeks once the fat has turned to curds and then let it continue to age without the fat.

 

[Arpolis]

I think the curds will be fun too. Will try and make some cheddar out of it.

 

[bernardsmith]

Fat free milk?

 

[Vex3521]

I might run 2, doing the milk version and the other thats calling for whey just to see which ends up better. Not sure I'll be doing them at the same time though depending since I've got the one pail and no clue if the carboy would be open for the whey version. Maybe I'll get lucky and the 2 that are clearing will be finished and bottled like i"m hoping! And I can start knocking out my on deck list.

 

[Niklaas1212]

How would the dried lactose they use for beers work??

 

[Arpolis]

How would the dried lactose they use for beers work??

I think back sweetening with that would be appropriate. But using that in place of milk or whey would probably defeat the purpose.

 

[TandemTails]

I found this thread from a few years ago: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=381045

I think I'll try the lactose free skim milk idea. I might try a double batch and leave one alone but add some citrus to the other half to see how that affects the taste.

 

[Vex3521]

Good plan. I am hoping to do 2 different batches if possible so this project will be great for information too! Hoping we get some awesome batches brewed, great recipes down and no horror stories hitting the drains!!

 

[TandemTails]

Now that we seem to have decided on a lactomel / milk mead, should we get a separate thread going where everyone can post their recipes, experiences, brew day logs, pics, etc? Also, what are we thinking for a start timeframe on this?

At first i was a little weirded out about the whole idea of a milk mead but now i'm really eager to try it out, haha

 

[Vex3521]

How would the dried lactose they use for beers work??

I use that in milk stout about the last 10 mins of boil or so. With this mead not sure, think Arpolis is onto something with backsweetening addition of that however if the mouthfeel is off.

 

[Vex3521]

We were looking to kick off about the 19th/20th of March but folks can jump in any time too. This way there's plenty of recipe plan time and getting set up with supplies. Will absolutely start a thread for all recipes, pics, notes too!