Anyone Fix my Berliner Weisse

[Shawn0522]

I brewed a no boil all grain Berliner Weisse and after almost 5 weeks no sourness at all. I am looking for advice on how to fix this batch.

The recipe was from an article i had read (don't remember where) for "Mikey Sunshine" by Moxey and Rodriguez. Recipe was as follows.

5.5 gallon batch
50/50 wheat and pilsner
.75 oz Hallertau (4.5AA) whole leaf boiled for 15 min with decoction and added back to mash

Went directly from mash to sanitized kettle where it was cooled to 70* and then put into fermentor. Pitched one pack of US-05 and two vials of WLP677 Lacotobacillus delbruekii (recipe called for Wyeast 5335, but only have access to WLP). Beer was fermented at 70* ambient for the entire time.

OG - 1.036
current gravity 1.003

Originally recipe stated it took about 6 weeks to get appropriate sourness. I am happy to give it more time but if I have no sourness at this point im not very hopeful.

What are my options? Pitch more Lacto (same of different strain), make a 1 gal batch and pitch straight lacto for a few days and blend? Give it more time (RDWHAHB )?

Thanks for any advise.

 

[ChappysBrewing]

So the 1 thing I notice as I plan on doing this same type/style of beer soon would be that when you added the Lactobacillus Delbruekii I believe you're supposed to keep the wort at 110 degrees for 2-4 days for it to get sour and let it do its job. After that step, you then are supposed to add your yeast to let it do its work. My next step after both of these is then to turn around and add a vial of Brettanomyces lambicus (WLP653) and then let it sit for around 6 months.

I am not sure if it may have gotten messed up at the Lacto where it wasnt at a higher temp or maybe it could have been you pitched it at the same time as your yeast which could have eaten it. I havent done a sour myself but have been planning too for the last couple of months and have done a lot of reading.

Id check out this guys blog/page.

http://sourbeerblog.com/dr-lambics-sour-red-ale/

Thats the recipe I plan on following myself until towards the end where I will add different fruit as I plan on doing around 20-25 gallons to have a few different flavors.

May have to write it up as a loss and learn for the next time or maybe someone will be able to help out more.

 

[TheAleRunner]

For a BW, you need to pitch the lacto first and let it do its thing before pitching the yeast. I doubt you'll get any tartness at this point because there's no sugar left for the lacto to work with.

 

[Shawn0522]

Here is an article on this brew (although not the article I had originally read). I am looking for ways to fix my beer (if i can). I appreciate the feedback but hate to critique someone elses recipe that appears to have won some awards.

http://mobile.oregonshoppyplace.com...r-weisse-beer-recipe/&dm_redirected=true#2828

 

[TheAleRunner]

That's really interesting that they pitched both the lacto and the yeast at the same time AND added oxygen too. I don't profess to be an expert on kettle sours, but the few I've done have come out really nice, by pitching a healthy dose of lacto and letting it sour the wort for 48 hours or so, then a quick boil before pitching the yeast. Lacto and oxygen sounds like a recipe for disaster/dirty diaper/rotten cheese smell.

Anyway, someone smarter than me will have to help you with advice on where to go from here. Good luck!

 

[isomerization]

My n=1, but I cannot recommend OYL-605 (Lacto blend of brevis and plantarum that acidifies at basically RT) enough. Took my raw wort to pH 3.2 in less than 48 hours (I did keep a hot source on the vessel that was about 80F). I use a fermentor with an air lock, to try and minimize O2 exposure, but I don't think its as big an issue with pure cultures v. Lacto (and others nasties) from grains.

The style I made was a Gose, but I do have plans in the near future to do a Berliner with this same Lacto and WLP644 as the yeast. With this style, you can either boil to kill the Lacto once the pH is low enough, or just pitch the yeast and let them mingle if you don't mind the bacteria in your kegs/bottling gear. Supposedly this creates a more complex beer.

 

[ChappysBrewing]

Yeah, I just wouldn't follow a recipe with that lack of details, especially if its a style ive never done before. I have done quite a bit of research as to what seems to be a consensus as well as from people who do it a lot and often plus seem to know what they're doing. The lacto really depends on temp and before the yeast pitch. You have to get it down to the PH you want so when you add the yeast it stops the process of souring. If you were wanting to do a quick kettle sour, look it up but a lot of folks will use sour crème or something similar to get the desired sourness and can be consumed in a much shorter period of time. If you are wanting to do a longer sour I believe you will also need to add some Brett to get all the desired flavors of sourness, dryness and overall deep flavor that sours can produce. But that's the fun with brewing and trying new things and learning from mistakes along the way.

 

[Calder]

I have never tried to pitch both lacto and yeast at the same time. I guess I don't hear about successes too much, but most BW failures seem to have been from pitching both together.

Once alcohol is present, lacto really slows down, even stops in many cases. I notice the recipe in the link did not give a ferment time. All I think you can do is put it away for 6 months or more and hope for the best. Maybe the lacto will still work.

Every BW I have made (and it has been several), I add lacto first, keep about 90 to 100 F (because that is where I am capable of keeping it, but I believe 110 F is better). Keep it there for 5 to 7 days. Taste to make sure it is as sour as I want, and only then do I add yeast. When I add yeast, I add at least 2X what I would add for a regular batch (low PH is not good for yeast).

I bottle at 3 weeks, and start drinking at 5.

 

[marc1]

At this point you could add lactic acid to get some sourness.

 

[Shawn0522]

As an update. I had all but given up on this beer and would have dumped it had i needed the carboy but since i hadnt i continued to let it go. Today i was sampling a few other batches and decided to take a sample of this one and to my surprise it is noticably sour! I am hoping to get the Ph tested through the local HBC to see where it is at. This beer may end up turning out after all. More to come.

 

[Shawn0522]

Sorry for the long delay. I ended up kegging this beer with priming sugar and served it at a 4th of July party last weekend. It ended up very good with plenty of sour. I was able to get a Ph reading and it was 3.20. So glad I let this one go!

 

[redllama]

Glad it worked out. One thing you should be mindful of is that lacto is extremely sensitive to hops. I typically kettle sour for 1 day with OYL 605 and then boil adding hallertau in the last 15.