Anyone ever use Fast Pitch canned wort for starters?

[Horseflesh]

So far I have only made starters this way same day so I am not dead yet. I will look into this more but was under the impression botulism was not an issue for wort. Plenty of low-acid unpasteurized foods get bagged and frozen. Glad you mentioned it though.

 

[Bassman2003]

When it comes to Botulism, I would not go "homebrew". Even if the chance is small.

 

[Derp]

I've been wondering about the whole botulism thing. If it's not safe to store a quart jar of wort in the freezer, then what about White Lab vials that I refill with yeast built up from starters? I've done the same thing with Mason jars of yeast. Is it dangerous to do so? I'm not sure what the pH of the stored wort/yeast is. I guess I should check.

 

[Bassman2003]

The whole danger with wort is that it is a massive growth medium at a low pH. A perfect place to growth things.

 

[wilserbrewer]

It is not safe to just "freeze" wort. It has to be pressure canned to be totally clear of botulism risk (240f) Wort is a low acid food and freezing is not enough.

I'm confused?

Are you saying it is unsafe to put boiled wort in a sanitary container, freeze it, thaw it and boil again before reuse?

Please educate me on this risk?

 

[Bassman2003]

The conversation up to now did not seem to have a long boiling stage involved. I thought a quick starter was made or some extra wort from a mash was being frozen.

The more you do the less the risk. But I was merely stating that the Botulism spores themselves can withstand 212f. It is the recommendation for food safety to bring the items up to 240f for complete eradication.

Here is an article about it - http://beerandwinejournal.com/botulism/

 

[Horseflesh]

The thing I find confusing about botulism food safety is the notion that freezing food is not enough to keep it safe. It seems like any food which is frozen and used immediately after defrosting should be safe.

I realize the spores survive boiling and freezing but I would not expect them to multiply in the freezer.

Pasteurize wort, freeze wort, defrost wort, add yeast -- where is the bacterial amplification step occurring in that sequence? That does not seem to incur any more risk than adding DME to water, boiling, cooling, adding yeast, and keeping it warm. In each case your starter could have spores present. Why is the trip to the freezer adding risk?

 

[MaryB]

If you boil the frozen wort before using you are fine.

 

[droder1]

If you boil the frozen wort before using you are fine.

Potentially Dangerous misinformation. As noted in the posts up above , botulism spores are not killed by boiling. It would kill the toxin if boiled for 30 mins, which is lengthy for a yeast starter.

http://scienceline.ucsb.edu/getkey.php?key=1307

 

[droder1]

I've been wondering about the whole botulism thing. If it's not safe to store a quart jar of wort in the freezer, then what about White Lab vials that I refill with yeast built up from starters? I've done the same thing with Mason jars of yeast. Is it dangerous to do so? I'm not sure what the pH of the stored wort/yeast is. I guess I should check.

Difference here would be the presence of alcohol and a different ph. Plain Unfermented wort vs fermented wort with yeast present.

 

[treacheroustexan]

Just put my first fast pitch starter on the stir plate. Will see what happens.

 

[pshankstar]

I like the idea, but it seems like for me it would be expensive. I always save some yeast to regrow for future batches and it seems like I need anywhere from 2-3L for the starter to get the cell count I need plus some for harvesting. The time saving part really intrigues me, but if I need to use 2-3 cans for one starter, the DME route and time will save me more money in the long run. Isn't that part of the reason why we harvest yeast, to keep the expense down? Of course pitch proper cell counts too!

 

[MaryB]

Freezing stalls any production of toxins. And any spore production. Both slow to an extreme crawl. Think about it... is your ice cream a botulism bomb?

"Refrigeration temperatures combined with salt content and/or acidic conditions will prevent the growth of the bacteria and formation of toxin. " since wort has a PH around 5.2-5.5 it is acidic... and the cold temps in the freezer

"Freezing does not destroy Clostridium botulinum, the spoilage organism that causes the greatest problem in canning low-acid foods, such as vegetables and animal products. However, Clostridium botulinum will not grow and produce toxin (poison) at correct freezer temperatures (0 degrees F or below). Therefore, freezing is a safe and easy alternative to pressure canning low-acid foods."

http://extension.missouri.edu/p/GH1501

Potentially Dangerous misinformation. As noted in the posts up above , botulism spores are not killed by boiling. It would kill the toxin if boiled for 30 mins, which is lengthy for a yeast starter.

http://scienceline.ucsb.edu/getkey.php?key=1307

 

[DrGMG]

I've used these once or twice, Malta Goya malt beverage
http://www.goya.com/english/product_subcategory/Beverages/Malta-Goya

Do you dilute? boil? Could you tell me the steps please.