Anyone ever use Fast Pitch canned wort for starters?

[hezagenius]

Saw that on Northern Brewer. Looks like pre-made wort for making starters. Maybe not economically efficient but it claims to save time because you don't need to boil a DME mixture. Just pour in the wort and then pitch the yeast.

Anyone have experience with this stuff?

 

[jafo28]

Interesting, might be something nice to keep on hand. I brew outdoors, wife can't stand the smell, which means I do all my starters outside too. This could be handy during the winter, when I don't feel like freezing my butt off just to make a starter.

 

[d3track]

Saw them last weekend. Looks like a big time saver but the $2.50 per liter makes me a bit gunshy...

 

[thekraken]

That's interesting. I've not used this product. I do know that people will can wort at home for this purpose using a pressure cooker or pressure canner. That's something I would like to do but just don't want to pay for the equipment.

At $10 for less than 2 liters worth of wort though it's way too expensive for me to bother with.

[Edit] oh it's concentrated so you have to dilute it. Well then what's the point? I'd want to boil it again anyway after adding dilution water... Any way, $5 for a 2 liter starter is still a lot especially when I'm doing multistep starters.

 

[wilserbrewer]

I've used these once or twice, Malta Goya malt beverage
http://www.goya.com/english/product_subcategory/Beverages/Malta-Goya

 

[bbohanon]

Looked cool..pricetag did not. If you are adding distilled or spring water from the store, you should be able to add it without boiling which would make it super fast but it honestly does not take me that long to whip up a starter with DME. It goes on sale, I might pick up a 4-pack. Until then...pass.

 

[Homercidal]

Spend a few hours one day pressure canning your own. I had a bunch on a shelf at one time, but haven't restocked lately. VERY handy if you do liquid yeast!

I probably wouldn't buy it.

 

[BrewerBrad82]

Personally I don't think $5 for a 2 liter starter is that much at all. Once you factor in the DME cost and the time spent boililng and cooling, I find it quite attractive. I too do not see any reason to boil it if you are using bottled water. I may swing by NB today or tomorrow and give it a whirl.

 

[thekraken]

Personally I don't think $5 for a 2 liter starter is that much at all. Once you factor in the DME cost and the time spent boililng and cooling, I find it quite attractive. I too do not see any reason to boil it if you are using bottled water. I may swing by NB today or tomorrow and give it a whirl.

Understandable, sometimes it's hard to find time in the middle of the week to screw around with starters.

I crunched some numbers: I recently purchased a 3 pound bag of dme the other day for ~$13. 3 pounds of dme can make about 220 fl.oz. of 1.080 wort. That's 13 16 fl.oz. cans or about $1 per can vs NB's $2.50 per can (plus shipping for me).

[Edit]
OR if you are really hardcore you could use some 2 row at $1.49/lb and make starter wort at less than $0.50 per 16 oz can.

 

[joshesmusica]

wait what is this talk about finding time to make a starter?

it takes like 10 mins total. so you're really pressed for 8 mins of your time?

 

[thekraken]

Dang speedy! I can't do it in 10 minutes... Maybe if I had the forethought to make the starter the night before and let cool back down naturally overnight, then I would only actively spend 10 minutes on it. Most of the time my schedule hasn't allowed for passive cooling. And if I have to cool it down in the sink I can't go far from it or it wont be long before someone walks by and throws a half eaten plate of spaghetti in the sink along with it.

 

[AK7007]

To those that complain about price:

The most relevant comparison is to the cost of home pressure-canned wort. Over on reddit somebody bothered to crunch the numbers here. Basically, if you buy a new pressure cooker, it will take you ~40 canned starters to amortize the cost of the canner and be canning for cheaper than Northern Brewer is offering. The main cost problem to me would be shipping, not that they are offering at a bad price point.

The takeaway: if you already bought a pressure cooker/canner and are making canned starter wort from grain then this product isn't for you. As you were. If you don't have one, then this product could make sense for you depending on how frequently you brew and how often you find yourself short on time to make a starter from DME.

I personally will stick to DME for the majority of the time and keep this product on hand for when I need convenience.

 

[joshesmusica]

Dang speedy! I can't do it in 10 minutes... Maybe if I had the forethought to make the starter the night before and let cool back down naturally overnight, then I would only actively spend 10 minutes on it. Most of the time my schedule hasn't allowed for passive cooling. And if I have to cool it down in the sink I can't go far from it or it wont be long before someone walks by and throws a half eaten plate of spaghetti in the sink along with it.

well i'm in norway where, even in the summer (especially a quite cold summer as this one), the water temps are below pitching temps. so i guess i took that for granted. but if you've only got 1, 2, 2.5 liters of wort, cooling in an ice bath should take a few minutes. it takes me only a few to cool with the temp i've got in summer. you really only need to boil for a minute if that's the method you're employing. if you're pressure cooking that's a different story. so a couple of minutes to gather ingredients and water, 1-2 minute boil, 4-5 minute cooling time, that leaves you with another minute to whisk the hell out of the work. BAM! 10-minute starter.

 

[thekraken]

To those that complain about price:

The most relevant comparison is to the cost of home pressure-canned wort. Over on reddit somebody bothered to crunch the numbers here. Basically, if you buy a new pressure cooker, it will take you ~40 canned starters to amortize the cost of the canner and be canning for cheaper than Northern Brewer is offering.

Its worse than that, they figured about 40 starters at 2 cans per starter or 80 cans. That's pretty close to the 77 cans I figured.

 

[Homercidal]

Yep, I already had a hand-me-down pressure cooker. You might try Ebay for a deal, but beware those things might need a new seal or something.

I should actually plan to can up some starter wort this weekend. I need to get my pork fat rendered too. Not sure how to fit that all in.

 

[BrewerBrad82]

If you had the Fast Pitch, you would have no problem fitting that all in

 

[3toes]

I'll stick with DME to make starters because it makes my whole house smell amazing when I'm boiling it

 

[JonM]

Eh, I'm not totally convinced by those numbers. My pressure cooker was under $30 (the one listed is $115) and the pressure cooker has lots of other uses. For example - making slants and plates. Or making beef stew that's ready in 30 minutes but tastes like it had been in the crockpot all day.

 

[AK7007]

My pressure cooker was under $30 (the one listed is $115)

Are you keeping sweet deals to yourself, (link pls) or was it a secondhand thing?

 

[JonM]

It's a small aluminum bare-bones model. I forget the specifics, (Presto?) but it was on Amazon. It holds four pint Mason jars.

 

[BrewerBrad82]

So I stopped by NB yesterday evening and picked up a four pack. Im thinking I will brew on Saturday, so Im going to make a starter tonight. Ill keep everyone posted on my experience.

 

[thekraken]

Eh, I'm not totally convinced by those numbers. My pressure cooker was under $30 (the one listed is $115) and the pressure cooker has lots of other uses. For example - making slants and plates. Or making beef stew that's ready in 30 minutes but tastes like it had been in the crockpot all day.

Other uses aside, for a $30 pressure canner it would take you only 20 16 fl.oz. cans worth of starter wort before you're cheaper than NB! ($30/$1.50 savings per can)

 

[douglasbarbin]

Other uses aside, for a $30 pressure canner it would take you only 20 16 fl.oz. cans worth of starter wort before you're cheaper than NB! ($30/$1.50 savings per can)

You should probably consider the cost of the mason jars as well...but your point is still valid. And if you do all-grain starters instead of DME, then the cost is probably a good bit less.

 

[thekraken]

You should probably consider the cost of the mason jars as well...but your point is still valid. And if you do all-grain starters instead of DME, then the cost is probably a good bit less.

darn skippy

OR if you are really hardcore you could use some 2 row at $1.49/lb and make starter wort at less than $0.50 per 16 oz can.

$2.00 savings per 16 fl.oz. excluding cost of propane/electricity/jars/time/etc.

 

[Bellybuster]

Saw that on Northern Brewer. Looks like pre-made wort for making starters. Maybe not economically efficient but it claims to save time because you don't need to boil a DME mixture. Just pour in the wort and then pitch the yeast.

Anyone have experience with this stuff?

3 pages of .......nope

 

[JonM]

Are you keeping sweet deals to yourself, (link pls) or was it a secondhand thing?

$31.47 now.

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00006ISG3/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

 

[douglasbarbin]

$31.47 now.

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00006ISG3/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

You can get the 8 quart one for around the same price

 

[AK7007]

3 pages of .......nope

And you were expecting what exactly? It's new, so nobody has had a chance to actually use it. Besides that though, what would there be to report? People already do this, so it's not like this is some new idea that nobody has come up with. I'm like 99.9999999% sure that they are sterile upon purchase, NB may have had the glass big mouth bubbler incident - but they aren't trying to screw us intentionally. So what do you expect people to report?

"Yup, it works just the same as what we already do at home, without the work."

All a thread can do is discuss the merits of buying canned starter wort vs canning your own. And since the price point is high, but non-outrageous, all our thread can do is say "depends who you are if you want to use this or make your own."

 

[bobbytuck]

Okay, I'm going to change the direction of this thread.

I bought 8 cans. They arrived today.

My background:

Brewing for 6 years. Started Mr. Beer, then all grain w/Igloo coolers, then 10 gallon eHerms setup, then -- now -- PicoBrew Zymatic. I'm busy. I love to brew, I hate to clean up after the brew. The Picobrew has solved all my wort making issues -- cleaning, time, etc. It's fantastic.

The only thing missing -- for me -- is starters. I hate to make starters. I don't anymore. I use dry yeast -- or, because of the Pico and 2.5 gallon batches, buy a couple of Wyeast packs and pitch. 46 batches with the Pico -- and I've never made a starter with the Pico. Used to make starters with the herms but hated the heating, cooling, temperature, yadda yadda.

So, okay, here we are. I've got a Maelstrom stir plate. It is badass. I've never used it. Today, I used it.

Two cans Fast-Pitch, 1 pack OmegaYeast Irish ale (OYL-005).

Sanitize everything -- 2L flask, yeast pack, cans, scissors, stir bar.

Pop the tops of the Fast Pitch. Pour into sanitized flask.

Drop in stir bar. Water.

Cut corner of yeast pack.

Pour in.

Start stir plate.

10 seconds in, the vortex is going.

20 seconds in, cover with sanitized foil.

Put rubber band around foil.

Walk away.

This is the easiest fricking starter I ever made. Pop tops, open yeast, pour in, start stir plate, stir.

I love it.

Price? Who cares. It's my time that matters.

Tomorrow morning? Shut off plate, cold crash starter. Keep for a couple days until I brew Irish Red. Then decant, pour.

I love it. Do I want to pressure can wort? No.

Could I pressure can wort? Yes. I have two pressure cookers.

Do I want spend time pressure canning wort? Nope.

Do I care about the price? No -- not when it's 10 bucks for 4 cans.

Does it work?

Stay tuned.

 

[douglasbarbin]

^ sounds like you forgot to add water.

 

[Hello]

@bobbytuck thanks for the writeup. Did you add water though?

Though making a starter is easy as pie, I wouldn't be opposed to actually using these. I've read about people just adding DME to bottled water and never boiling, but I would be worried about infection since I buy a large bag of DME and just pour out whatever I need. The DME seems like it needs to be boiled.

Either way, the cost is not so prohibitive that I would be completely steered away. I think I'll buy some cans and see how much I like he uber convenience.

 

[bobbytuck]

@bobbytuck thanks for the writeup. Did you add water though?

Either way, the cost is not so prohibitive that I would be completely steered away. I think I'll buy some cans and see how much I like he uber convenience.

Yes - 32oz with the 2 cans.

 

[3toes]

Either way, the cost is not so prohibitive that I would be completely steered away. I think I'll buy some cans and see how much I like he uber convenience.

I'm planning on picking up a pack just to have in case I find myself in need. I may on a whim decide I want to brew in a few days but don't have the time to run to my lhbs and grab some DME if I'm out. Plus my lhbs has weird hours sometimes...

Are these things going to replace the process of mixing and boiling DME? No, but it's a good idea and super convenient.


And like I said earlier in the thread, just the SMELL of boiling DME will keep me making my own for the foreseeable future. Mmmmmm so good.

 

[Bellybuster]

bobbytuck gotta ask.... starter for a 2.5 gallon batch??
Regardless, it'll be interesting to see your results.

Did you taste the canned wort?

 

[MrFancyPlants]

I run all my starters in pasteurized apple juice from trader joes. The best part is, when I "decant," I can bottle or drink straight the cider.
After a few generations, I harvest pacman from sixpacks of deadguy by pitching the dregs into a fresh bottle of applejuice, and I am on my way within a few days.
It could be argued that I am contributing off flavors from the juice, but I'm pretty good about decanting and just pitching the yeast when it comes carboy time. I haven't noticed any off flavors yet, and the pacman/AJ brew actually tastes cleaner than powdered s05 from my limited experience.

 

[thekraken]

Is it ironic that this thread has inspired me to get a pressure canner? Found a sweet deal on craigslist...

 

[wilserbrewer]

I run all my starters in pasteurized apple juice from trader joes. The best part is, when I "decant," I can bottle or drink straight the cider.

After a few generations, I harvest pacman from sixpacks of deadguy by pitching the dregs into a fresh bottle of applejuice, and I am on my way within a few days.

It could be argued that I am contributing off flavors from the juice, but I'm pretty good about decanting and just pitching the yeast when it comes carboy time. I haven't noticed any off flavors yet, and the pacman/AJ brew actually tastes cleaner than powdered s05 from my limited experience.

This is a great idea, thanks!

 

[bobbytuck]

bobbytuck gotta ask.... starter for a 2.5 gallon batch??
Regardless, it'll be interesting to see your results.

Did you taste the canned wort?

No taste. Smelled like wort, though. No weirdness.

Yeah, starter for a 2.5 gallon batch. Why not? Rather have an overpitch than an underpitch.

Doing the same thing for a black lager I'm brewing on Sunday. I'm anxious to see if the starter starts the fermentation faster than just a straight pitch of a couple Wyeast packets. My lagers always freak me out with slow starts. They turn out fine -- but what the heck, maybe this will speed things up a bit. Who knows.

 

[BrewerBrad82]

I am going to have to basically echo @bobbytuck review of the Fast Pitch. I picked some up last week at the NB retail store and whipped up a starter on Thurs night. It was the fastest and easiest starter I have ever made - it literally took 3 minutes to do it all. I used two cans to make a 2 liter starter for a 1.050 brown porter, and the Wyeast 1335 took off in the starter in just a few hours. Popped it in the fridge on Saturday afternoon so the yeast would settle in time for pitching on Sunday afternoon. SOOOO easy and convenient that I really doubt I will make starters out of DME anymore - $5 for a 3 minute, 2 liter starter??? Yes... the time savings and ease are completely worth it. Ive got to say that it is a great product.

 

[RmikeVT]

Interesting, might be something nice to keep on hand. I brew outdoors, wife can't stand the smell, which means I do all my starters outside too. This could be handy during the winter, when I don't feel like freezing my butt off just to make a starter.

You seriously make your starters outside? Wife can't handle the smell for 5 minutes it takes to make a starter? I know the drill though, happy wife happy life.

I haven't gotten around to it, but I've always wanted to make a bulk starter from all grain. Make a couple gallons and then freeze in soda bottles or something like that. I guess the trade-off of time to do that and take up freezer space hasn't met the intersection of just using dry extract.