Anyone else overwelmed by the amount of hops in IPAs and NEIPAs?

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kiwipen

kiwipen

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Whenever I buy an IPA or NEIPA, especially NEIPA, all I can taste and smell is the absurd amounts of hops. the bitterness is just too much. Maybe I can smell something fruity, but the taste is just a bitter attack on my tongue. i know these beers are supposed to be heavily hopped, but to me they are hopped far beyond what I can appreciate.

The good thing about being a home brewer is that I can brew beer I think I'll enjoy.

Does anyone else find NEIPAs and some IPAs unpleasant? Maybe I've been drinking some bad examples, because I can't understand how someone can find these beers drinkable. If you like them, good for you, I'm not saying you are wrong and I am right.
 
I agree, I think most american ales and many american iterations of european styles are way over hopped. Dry hopping and/or bombing with late hop additions styles that are supposed to be malt driven to the point the malty notes are completely drowned in hoppyness.
Also many Americans seem to have an unhealthy fear of esters, some like Founders and Great Divide get it right when making more classic styles though.
 
NEIPAs aren't bitter, they're hoppy. Big difference. IPAs typically are bitter because the hops are boiled and the alpha acids in the hops are isomerized into the bitter compounds we taste. NEIPAs use a lot of very late and dry hopping to deliver the hops' flavour, into the beer, but the alpha acids aren't isomerized into bittering compounds.

Yes, NEIPAs can be bitter, but they generally are not. I prefer my IPAs bitter (high IBU) and my NEIPAs not bitter (low IBU). Very fruity and very juicy though.

EDIT: Regarding your question - I find the hops overwhelming, yes. Not from a taste perspective, but from it's cost.
 
I was homebrewing for about 2 years before i really even started liking IPAs. I was introduced to NEIPAs by a friend on a trip @ Treehouse which are good, but too me sometimes push too far with the overpowering late additions/dry hops.

I really enjoy both styles of bitter IPAs & juicy NEIPAs, but do agree that many breweries have been pushing beyond the limit of enjoyable balance in both styles.

I think it was Vinnie @ Russian River that coined the coined the lupulin threshold shift term. It seems like the amounts just keep going up and become the entire focus of the beer. (also, i may be in the minority but am one that likes a west coast IPA but don't care for Pliny)

You are correct though in being able to dial in to your liking with homebrewing is AWESOME. I've maxed out my NEIPAs at about 10oz per 5G batch and feel i could go head to head with many breweries offerings. I've tried as high as 18oz per 5G batch, and exactly what you said "everything else gets lost" and it tasted like a giant hop bomb mess.
 
I am originally from WA state where westcoast IPAs abound. I honestly cannot stand a lot of them as I do not prefer the overwhelming harsh bitterness that seems to dominate that style. As such, I quit drinking anything that said IPA for many years as I associated the harshness to every IPA. I relocated to NC a couple years ago and discovered the NEIPA style which I find is much different and fits my palette quite well, it is now my preferred style.
 
Barbarossa said:
I can't stand either. At all. Personally, I prefer the taste of beer over the taste of bitter grass.
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To be fair there are some decent IPA out there, my biggest concern is the hop-craze spilling over into styles where it really does not belong.
 
Erik the Anglophile said:
To be fair there are some decent IPA out there, my biggest concern is the hop-craze spilling over into styles where it really does not belong.
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Reminds me of the double down from KFC. Too much is just like not enough.But people are buying it, so I can only watch the show from afar.

article-1264166-0908E28A000005DC-531_468x386.jpg
 
If a style is done right like an ipa or neipa or porter or esb, and some one does not enjoy it that does not mean the style is wrong. That would be like me saying "anyone else want to vomit when they drink a sour?" Its just not my style, I dont enjoy it therefore I dont drink it. Movie quote "I cant swim, I know I cant, so you know what I do hunnie, I stay my black ass out the pool!" (not intended to offend, just making a point)
 
bailey mountain brewer said:
If a style is done right like an ipa or neipa or porter or esb, and some one does not enjoy it that does not mean the style is wrong. That would be like me saying "anyone else want to vomit when they drink a sour?" Its just not my style, I dont enjoy it therefore I dont drink it. Movie quote "I cant swim, I know I cant, so you know what I do hunnie, I stay my black ass out the pool!" (not intended to offend, just making a point)
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Gone in 60 Seconds

Great movie
 
I will add that flavors/compounds do register different to different people. Beers that I find to have a mid-level of bitterness, my girlfriend thinks are way over the top. She hates "IPAs" has learned that she loves NEIPAs. I enjoy the style myself, but she gravitates to the 9% ones that are saturated with hops. I tend to pick up a strong astringency once the dry hop level gets to high, where she says she does not notice any astringency in these beers.

At least to me, bitterness and astringency have some similar character but differences. Bitterness tends to sit toward the back of my tongue and build through the aftertaste. The hop astringency hits early and right up front on the tongue and fades. To me that astringency is a sign of a bad example or one that is too young...but maybe that is just my preference.

Barbarossa said:
Reminds me of the double down from KFC. Too much is just like not enough.But people are buying it, so I can only watch the show from afar.
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That is the American way...if it tastes good it will taste even better if deep fried covered in cheese with bacon!
 
I'm not a fan of crazy hopped beer either - but I can't say there is any style I don't like as a whole.. There is enough variation in the IPA and NEIPA styles that you can find some you like.
 
I thought absurd amounts of hops was one of the things that made an IPA and IPA.

Took me awhile to get used to them, but now very hoppy beer is my preference. Though I'll sneeze once or twice while drinking them.
 
I don’t consider west coast and NEIPAs IPAs. I think it’s either lazy nomenclature or limitations from the existing “official” beer styles. That doesn’t mean I don’t like what the brewers of those beers are doing. In fact I love it. I just don’t think of IPA when I drink them other that a nod to their origins. They are what they are and it’s wonderful. Fwiw IMO pure ibus doesn’t equate to good beer. I’ve sample more than I care in so called IPAs that lacked balance, flavor and complexity going for high IBUs.

Man do I love the bitter grapefruit of cascade in an ale for example. I’ve always said if Sierra Nevada came out now it would likely have the I added to Pale Ale. In any case that’s pushed the hop growers to coax different flavors and aromas out of hops (not to mention how different yeasts interacts with them) making for far more interesting options for beer lovers. And the idea of the NEIPAs taking the best of two worlds,- the flavor and aroma foreward of late addition hops from their west coast cousins and the malt and cream on the palette from their English ancestors - is pure genius IMO.

The only way to know where the line is, is to cross it. That happens all too often in brewing as pushing the envelop gets you noticed in a very crowded field.

To the OP, I appreciate that taste is a very personal thing and understand where you are coming from. Could it be a lot of meh and bad brews slapping the IPA on the label? I think it’s happens more than we care to admit. Could pushing hops offend your taste buds? Likely and that’s reasonable. Its great that homebrew lets you make what you like and it’s also great that there is so much variety out there that are outstanding brewers who do wonderful things with hops that the odds added you find what you like. Just gotta keep sampling IMO

Fwiw, I am pretty much a hop head, but every year I challenge myself to brew a kolsh and love the other end of brewing where malt is featured with a delicate hand on the hops to perfectly balance the beer in a tapestry of subtle.
 
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hotbeer said:
I thought absurd amounts of hops was one of the things that made an IPA and IPA.

Took me awhile to get used to them, but now very hoppy beer is my preference. Though I'll sneeze once or twice while drinking them.
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Legend has it that it just meant a bit more hops and malt with a touch of oak than a typical British Pale Ale. Then Americans discovered beer (actually malt liquor for Fed Govt reasons) and of course we couldn’t leave well enough alone. Not being hamstrung by any traditions, and in the spirit of good old American “more of everything!”, we took the idea of an iPA and brought it to whole new levels, ripping it apart and putting it back together in unrecognizable forms, throwing out conventional wisdom and debunking what can and can’t be done with beer. And yes ... today IPA is usually associated with absurd amounts of hops and not with that beer that had to stand the long trips and hot weather in oak barrels to hydrate those British soldiers India (if that tale is even true). Today we now call that a British IPA.
 
I had a number of outstanding hazies at Modern Times taproom, and at other great breweries. But I have had undrinkable ones too. I think more extreme styles require more skill, which is too often lacking these days. Heck, some breweries can’t get simple styles right.
 
I guess its an American thing. Some is good, more is better and too much is our goal....

Personally I like a well made really hoppy IPA, any style. I also like a great malty porter or Scotch ale. A really hoppy brown ale is kind of out of style I guess but I like that too. Drink what you like and leave the rest.
 
CascadesBrewer said:
That is the American way...if it tastes good it will taste even better if deep fried covered in cheese with bacon!
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Yeah I know. I know kids that won't eat unless it's covered and soaked in ketchup. Anything and everything.

When I look at Asian cuisine, I fell ashamed. So much flavors. And different flavors. Here it's like freaking anything potatoes, deep fry everything and butter salt and sugar.

I'm also guilty. I made deep fried beer battered bacon last week. Dipped in Maple syrup.
 
Erik the Anglophile said:
To be fair there are some decent IPA out there, my biggest concern is the hop-craze spilling over into styles where it really does not belong.
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I agree. There are some local breweries that I've had to learn by trial and error to expect high hops/IBUs even if the style doesn't traditionally have that. Kind of like eating food cooked by a guy who absolutely loves hot sauce, or someone who can't get enough bacon and has to cram it in to everything he makes.

Personally I think IPAs can be good, but I want them to be a category in a wide array of choices. If you don't want to drink BMC, your choices tend to be IPAs, stouts, and wheats, at least here in the midwest. Not so easy to find pilsners, kolschs, porters, belgians, or barleywines unless you want to drive to a specialty store.
 
I find a lot of beers that have a nice hop flavor, or an insane amount of hops, lacking the malt backbone on which to hang all those wonderful hops. Examples like Heady Topper are done very well IMO due to the wonderful malt bill and balance with the hops. Some beers which have are a hop bomb are akin to candy. I can drink one, maybe two at the most before I get burned out.

I think if the brewer pays closer attention to the malt bill the beers will be more successful.
 
I'm new in this game and appreciated this informative thread. Only liked one (NE)IPA out of the 10, or so, that I've tried. Went to a local brewery (after making my first brew, and embracing this new hobby, and loving this forum) and had a Flight which was fun. However, I got one 'grassy', 'rough' taste in my mouth after the very first sip and it remained for days! The order in which they presented the brews, in terms of IBU, was 24, 39, 22, and 28. It should've been 22, 24, 28, and 39?
Didn't matter, like I said the first taste overwhelmed everything.
 
kiwipen said:
Whenever I buy an IPA or NEIPA, especially NEIPA, all I can taste and smell is the absurd amounts of hops. the bitterness is just too much. Maybe I can smell something fruity, but the taste is just a bitter attack on my tongue. i know these beers are supposed to be heavily hopped, but to me they are hopped far beyond what I can appreciate.

The good thing about being a home brewer is that I can brew beer I think I'll enjoy.

Does anyone else find NEIPAs and some IPAs unpleasant? Maybe I've been drinking some bad examples, because I can't understand how someone can find these beers drinkable. If you like them, good for you, I'm not saying you are wrong and I am right.
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Same here. I think a lot of brewers have gone too far with hops in many of their beers. Just my opinion. Nothing wrong with a good well balanced IPA, but even some Pale Ales are getting a little over the top with hops.
 
These beers seem to have become a vehicle for hop delivery. Too often, the beer is so bitter that you really can’t tell if the base beer has any real flavor. You, as the drinker, are assaulted by hop aroma, flavor, and bitterness and can easily become overwhelmed by it all.

Some brewers claim 100 or more IBUs in their beer. The human palate can’t discern more than about 90 IBUs so what’s the point? If you really like to have a puckered face, eat green persimmons. Some writers have offered a general rule of thumb that the IBUs should equal the original specific gravity of the beer. This is not a bad generalization but keep in mind that it was originally offered for beers of normal and historical strengths. Some beers are now sporting an OG which could float a silver dollar.

If 40 SRM is black, is there a point in making a beer of 95 SRM other than for bragging rights? Perhaps I’m just old fashioned but I prefer a beer which is drinkable. Many of the commercial examples are not; at least in quantity at one sitting. My preference is an IPA which doesn’t go over about 16oP to 17oP (1.065 to 1.070) and has more hop flavor and aroma than bitterness . . . my preference is not often fulfilled.
 
kiwipen said:
Whenever I buy an IPA or NEIPA, especially NEIPA, all I can taste and smell is the absurd amounts of hops. the bitterness is just too much.
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If your Hazy/NEIPA is bitter, it wasn't done right. You should detect almost no bitterness. That's the whole point of a Hazy/NEIPA and what I love about them. 85 out of 100 beers I drink are Hazy/NEIPA's, the other 15 are beers aged in bourbon barrels (usually stouts)! Mmmmm...! OK, maybe I drink other styles too...I love Barleywine, an occasional sour, stouts and porters are good, belgian's.......
 
In some respects a lot of what some of you are saying is that some throw a lot of hops at a beer that's not quite up to snuff just so that they can claim it is something by shocking you.

I see that happening in a lot of stuff. In food they tend to throw a lot of seasonings or sauces on a poorly cooked entre and think it's something.

But I do like the hops. If it was just water, alcohol and hops I'd probably be okay with it after finishing most of the first bottle.
 
I love hoppy beers. I also like malty beers. Balanced beers, big, small...all are loved around here (at least by me...SWMBO is more particular).
I live in San Diego.
95% of what's available falls into the first category.
Is the beer low quality? No.
Do I wish brewers would take some risk and brew something "different"? Yes.
hotbeer said:
throw a lot of hops at a beer that's not quite up to snuff just so that they can claim it is something by shocking you..
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This is a really astute observation. I love big beers, and even though I appreciate "character", I'd much rather have a homebrew pilsner that scores a 45 than a commercial IPA that's got a diacetyl and acetaldehyde problem and burns the back of my throat. All solveable problems if the brewer actually cares!
Stone's Greg Koch says, "any beer is a good beer if you can taste the brewer's intent". I think this is especially true for big beers. Where there may be more competing different flavors.
 
Erik the Anglophile said:
I agree, I think most american ales and many american iterations of european styles are way over hopped. Dry hopping and/or bombing with late hop additions styles that are supposed to be malt driven to the point the malty notes are completely drowned in hoppyness.
Also many Americans seem to have an unhealthy fear of esters, some like Founders and Great Divide get it right when making more classic styles though.
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A couple of months ago saw a new beer (an IPA) from a local brewery that also sells in some local outlets. Many of their beers are very good stylistic examples of non-US beers (their Koelsch is as good as any I ever had in Koln). I like their beers and I like the fact that they are local, independent and craft micro.

So when I saw this new IPA offering at the beer store, I had to pick up a sixer. Upon tasting it struck me that this beer was maltier and the hops much more subtle.

My reaction was, "This isn't an IPA. It's like one of those British ones like I've had many times in pubs in England. That's when I saw it on the label, "English IPA". Duh!

Once I got past the notion that I was mistakingly expecting a hop bomb, I realized that it was actually a very pleasant, correct to style beer. So yes, even though I like an occasional hoppy APA or American IPA, my fear is that the current trend has turned the volume 'up to 11'. I find myself trending back to Continental beers with more balance between noble hops and grains.
 
I don't drink a lot of bought beer, but when I do, it's almost always "known good" stuff. The exceptions are finding something new and interesting enough to risk the cost of a 4/6 pack. And while they don't always make it to my "gotta clone this" list, I haven't run into a beer that for its style I would consider "excessively hopped".

That said, I'm also old AF with likely somewhat attenuated sensory abilities, plus my "lupulin shift" happened a decade or more ago...

Cheers! (So there's all that :D)
 
YeastFeast said:
If your Hazy/NEIPA is bitter, it wasn't done right. You should detect almost no bitterness. That's the whole point of a Hazy/NEIPA and what I love about them.
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-this, above. +1

A true NE should be almost no bitterness at all... if done right.
I think that roughly 95% or more of the "NE" or "HAZY" i try are just not properly made.
I only know of two CA breweries that do it right (Moonraker, Henhouse. And ok, Russian River does an Ok one too). I am sure there might be others in other states. There are some pretty close trys... but imo once you have a true style it makes sense. The insane amount of hops is because that's how much this style requires- not because it ia trendy, but because it is the balance.
Not trying to sound like a beer snob, and to each his/her own of course. But again imo this style is often imitated and rarely acheived.
I am also getting tired of hazy/ne/juicy... i think the next wave will be lagers. I hope at least. This style is so under represented in the craft scene. It also seperates the advanced breweries i think.
Anyways... my 0.02.

I will say this... beer is like trucks, cars, or significant others: there are so many styles and choices which is what it makes it great. No one style is perfect for all. So drink/drive/date what you like.
 
cgoldberg3 said:
I agree. There are some local breweries that I've had to learn by trial and error to expect high hops/IBUs even if the style doesn't traditionally have that. Kind of like eating food cooked by a guy who absolutely loves hot sauce, or someone who can't get enough bacon and has to cram it in to everything he makes.

Personally I think IPAs can be good, but I want them to be a category in a wide array of choices. If you don't want to drink BMC, your choices tend to be IPAs, stouts, and wheats, at least here in the midwest. Not so easy to find pilsners, kolschs, porters, belgians, or barleywines unless you want to drive to a specialty store.
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Actually I am surprised the hop thing has lasted this long. My day drinker is PBR and when I look for a craft beer sixer it is nothing but IPA this and IPA that. Of course then the fruit infused stuff. I then find myself buying summit apa and moose drool. Also from Midwest.
 

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