Am I in over my head?

[teamacacia]

Allow myself to introduce.....myself

I'm a new guy to the forums from Oklahoma. My wife bought me a cider "brew kit" online for Christmas last year after my favorite commercial cider changed recipes and went from dry to terribly sweet. I have attempted three batches so far, all with poor results. That brought me to an Internet search and subsequently here. I'm hoping to glean more information so that I may be able to produce more consistent results.
If anyone has any pointers, here is what I have done so far:
Batch 1: Followed the directions to cleanse all parts, brought apple juice to room temp, pitched yeast, shake, added blow-off tube, and watched as the cider turned into a vigorous "boil" over the next few days while stuck in the dark guest bedroom closet. As the activity slowed over 3-4 days, I switched out blow off tube to the air-lock and let it do its thing for a few weeks. I then racked the cider to a stainless pot, added some honey that was diluted in warm water and then bottled (new flip-tops). Bottles went back in the dark closet for a few weeks and then to the fridge. Once time to drink: product was a bit tart for my liking and carbonation was poor. I made a dozen or so bottles and only had a couple that were very carbonated at all.
Batch 2: Prepped the gear, added room temp cider/juice, pitched yeast, shook it like a salt shaker, and virtually no response. I let it go for a week and then decided to trash it and go again from the beginning because there didn't appear to be much of any fermentation going on.
Batch 3: basically same as batch 2, except fermentation activity seemed decent for about the first 24 hrs and then the bubbling activity basically stopped.

Gear used: 1 gal brew kit from Brooklyn brew shop. Yeast was provided with the kit and was red star premier cuvée yeast all within expiration date. That's it.

I welcome any and all suggestions as to how to improve my product. From what I found on a quick reading, it seems like I should get some sulfite tablets, pectin enzyme, and maybe some nutrients for the yeast. Anything else?


EDIT: I forgot to mention that my goal is to shoot for a drier cider. My favorite commercial ciders so far are the old Strongbow, Crispin The Saint, and Stella Cidré.
The kit I have only came with the carboy, blow off/racking tube, racking cane, and airlock. The instructions were to use the blow off tube for a few days and then switch to the airlock.
Lastly, if I need more equipment (such as SG measuring kits) how are you all testing during the fermentation process? Just popping off the airlock and taking quick sample?

Thanks again. I'm really trying to make something decent but feel a little bit in the deep end.

 

[Crash21]

I'm on my 5th batch of cider. So I have made 4 and of those 4 only 2 were drinkable. So I guess I'm at 50 percent success at this point.
It sounds like you have the basics down so the only tips I can offer are...
Sanitize EVERYTHING. I don't know what type of sanitizer came with your kit but I use StarSan.
Try some different yeast. A lot of people like Lalvin 1118 as it is very active and supports a high ABV. I have a batch going now that is at 18%ABV. I didn't really intend for it to be that high. Also I like the Mangrove Jacks M02 Cider yeast.
Make sure the juice you are using does not have anything but juice in it.
Get a hydrometer to check the Starting Gravity(amount of sugar) .
Once primary fermentation is done oxygen becomes the ciders worst enemy.
Sanitize EVERYTHING.
You don't have to switch out the blowoff tube for the airlock.. You can use either one or the other.
Pectin Enzyme, Camden Tabs and Meta are all good to have.
Basically you take a gravity reading before you pitch the yeast wait a couple of weeks till the airlock shows no activity and check it again. It's probably time to rack to secondary at that point. Fill the secondary to the top and leave as little headspace as possible and pop the airlock back on. Wait till it clears and bottle.
I don't know if I can help any with my suggestions but I'll offer what I have learned.
Good luck and happy brewing.

 

[teamacacia]

Thanks Crash, for the advice. I am currently using a powdered sanitizer that came with the kit but will try to pick up star san this week. As a doc who works in the OR, I am pretty conscious about keeping stuff clean but will be sure to double check my work. I will have to get a second carboy to rack the first into, but if I start with 1 gal, I will invariably lose some product siphoning off, what do you do to fill the headspace?

I'm on my 5th batch of cider. So I have made 4 and of those 4 only 2 were drinkable. So I guess I'm at 50 percent success at this point.
It sounds like you have the basics down so the only tips I can offer are...
Sanitize EVERYTHING. I don't know what type of sanitizer came with your kit but I use StarSan.
Try some different yeast. A lot of people like Lalvin 1118 as it is very active and supports a high ABV. I have a batch going now that is at 18%ABV. I didn't really intend for it to be that high. Also I like the Mangrove Jacks M02 Cider yeast.
Make sure the juice you are using does not have anything but juice in it.
Get a hydrometer to check the Starting Gravity(amount of sugar) .
Once primary fermentation is done oxygen becomes the ciders worst enemy.
Sanitize EVERYTHING.
You don't have to switch out the blowoff tube for the airlock.. You can use either one or the other.
Pectin Enzyme, Camden Tabs and Meta are all good to have.
Basically you take a gravity reading before you pitch the yeast wait a couple of weeks till the airlock shows no activity and check it again. It's probably time to rack to secondary at that point. Fill the secondary to the top and leave as little headspace as possible and pop the airlock back on. Wait till it clears and bottle.
I don't know if I can help any with my suggestions but I'll offer what I have learned.
Good luck and happy brewing.

 

[Hankhill11]

I would like to second that question. I also am doing a 1 gal batch and will need to rack as well. If the 2nd container is 1 gallon there will be more head space than the original gal.

 

[TwistedHops]

I want to second the hydrometer. Just because it's not bubbling does not mean the yeasties aren't doing their job! (That was a lot of negatives in that sentence, oops).

Also, star San is your best friend! Get a spray bottle and spray everything, do not rinse! You might even go one step further and bathe in the star San....

 

[madscientist451]

My wife bought me a cider "brew kit" online for Christmas last year after my favorite commercial cider changed recipes and went from dry to terribly sweet. I have attempted three batches so far, all with poor results.


EDIT: I forgot to mention that my goal is to shoot for a drier cider. My favorite commercial ciders so far are the old Strongbow, Crispin The Saint, and Stella Cidré.
The kit I have only came with the carboy, blow off/racking tube, racking cane, and airlock. The instructions were to use the blow off tube for a few days and then switch to the airlock.
Lastly, if I need more equipment (such as SG measuring kits) how are you all testing during the fermentation process? Just popping off the airlock and taking quick sample?

Thanks again. I'm really trying to make something decent but feel a little bit in the deep end.

Making cider is pretty simple, but the quality and the process you use will determine the taste of your final product. Crap in=crap out seems logical, right? So start with the apple juice. Are there any orchards in your part of Oklahoma that are making their own cider? Check the label and see if there are any preservatives added, if there are preservatives, don't use it, it won't ferment. If you can go to the orchard where its made, ask them when they will wrap up cider for the year and get some now, but go back and get more at the end of the season. I think the juice from late season apples just makes better cider, but that's just my preference.
I press all my own juice, and going up in the orchard in the fall is something I look forward to.
If you can't get cider from an orchard, go to your grocery store and look for "simply apple" in the refrigerated juice section. Keep an eye on it, they put it on sale every 3-4 weeks around here. The apple juice from sam's club or walmart is an option, but I think it makes a pretty crappy cider compared to the above. Maybe there are other options in your local stores and farmer's markets. The brands of cider you mentioned use a blend of regular apples and special cider apples to get their taste profiles. So your cider won't be exactly like those, but still pretty good, you might like it better.
For dry cider, get some English cider yeast , WLP 775, from your local homebrew shop or an online source. You can re-pitch the yeast many times, it makes a nice dry cider and retains some apple flavor. Other options are wine yeast, but I find the cider comes out somewhat tasteless with wine yeast. So start with a quart of your apple juice or cider and a sanitized 1/2 gallon jug with a stopper and an airlock and pitch your yeast right in. Room temperature is fine for the starter. After a week or so pitch the whole starter into your larger batch, I use 3 gallon carboys because they are easier to move around. I keep my fermenting temperature in the low 60's. Don't be in a rush. After 2-3 weeks, I rack the cider into a different fermenter and re-use the yeast on the next batch. You don't need all the yeast, maybe a cup or so. I keep my cider in a cold basement (in the 40's) all winter and drink it after 3-4 months. If the temperature gets down to 25F, I'll put the (plastic) carboys outside for a few nights and that cold will make it clear up some more.
That step is optional and I don't try it with the glass carboys.
No chemicals, stabilizers or anything added.
You can do different things to speed up the process, and add chemicals and stabilizers if you want, but if you keep it simple, you can make good tasting cider if you start off with good juice, the right yeast, a sanitized fermenter, ferment temps in the low 60's and some time for aging.
Good luck and happy cider making.

 

[_BullDog_]

For a 1 gal batch I'd recommend a refractometer over the hydrometer.... Only takes a few drops to measure the sugar/alcohol.

Also with just juice you should put in some yeast nutrient.... Helps keep the yeast happy.

 

[bernardsmith]

I second almost everything that Madscientist says except that I would suggest you try using a wine yeast- specifically 71B which works really well with cider as 71B seems to have a special affinity for malic acid (the main acid in apples) and after a few months of aging the sharp edges of the malic acid are nicely smoothed. The thing about 71B is that it also works best at lower autumn temperatures (perhaps 62 F)

 

[Crash21]

The basics are all the same and everyone has their preferred method..yeast, airlocks, juice, nutrients etc are all subjective.

K.I.S.S. You know what it means.

I get juice from the store. It's true, better juice better cider but as you are getting started just work with what you have.
I just dump it all into the carboy on the same day at the same time and it has worked very well for me. Juice, Pectic Enzyme, yeast. Give it a good shake and pop on the airlock.
Most people like to backsweeten. It means to add sugar after the yeast has used all of the sugar in the juice. It will come out dry (no sugar) and still (no carbonation.
Add some FAJC(frozen apple juice concentrate) after racking to give a little of the Apple flavor back and to fill the headspace you have left from fermentation and racking.
sanitize EVERYTHING!!! I know I keep saying it but working in the medical field you know that when you are fermenting one thing you are fermenting anything that might be in there. It's basically a Petri Dish.
In the end cider is very much a personal preference. Generally we don't make it for anyone's taste but our own.

Stick with the 1 gallon batches until you get a couple of good batches and actually enjoy the product you have.

 

[MindenMan]

I am with Crash21, until you get a few good batches under your belt, 1 gallon batches don't hurt the wallet too badly, if you don't like the results. I still make one gallon batches, but now I do them 4 or 5 at a time due to my using different fruit combinations.

 

[teamacacia]

Thanks everyone. I racked the last batch over to a new glass jar and I am going to let it sit for a few weeks before starting a new batch in my other jug. We will see how it turns out. I think the culprit may have been using regular dish soap to clean my original glass jug. I didn't know that could affect the yeast. I picked up some BPW wash and star san for washing and sanitizing the next go-round.

Quick question, the local brew show got me to buy rubber stoppers rather than the plastic screw tops for the glass carboy/jugs. Does anyone have issue with them sealing poorly. I tried the rubber stopper on the salvage attempt and it kept popping up. It wasn't totally dry so that might have played a role in its difficulty in staying seated without popping up.

 

[Chris_The_Rogue]

Wet bungs do tend to pop up. You might want to look into some temp controll. I use a foam cooler, a towell with a hole cut in it and ice packs. I change the ice packs twice a day and can keep the temp down quite well. Going low and slow did wonders for the quality of my cider.

 

[HarborTownBrewing]

A couple very humble thoughts:

1) I'm not sure you need to boil the cider. I'm not sure what affect it has, but I've had good success just tossing the cider into a carboy with some yeast, then later adding cinnamon and ginger, and sugar.

2) Give it some time. I think mine hit it's stride after about 6 months in the bottle. A lot of cider makers won't even try theirs until it's been in the bottle for a year.

 

[teamacacia]

Wet bungs do tend to pop up. You might want to look into some temp controll. I use a foam cooler, a towell with a hole cut in it and ice packs. I change the ice packs twice a day and can keep the temp down quite well. Going low and slow did wonders for the quality of my cider.

Unfortunately, my work schedule isn't that conducive to such a hands on approach. I have certainly read other's opinions about keeping the temp low. For now, I keep mine in an upstairs guest bedroom closet that stays about 68-70 degrees most of the time.

I'll keep the advice handy should I have a few days off..oooohhhh, maybe over the Thanksgiving holiday....

 

[teamacacia]

A couple very humble thoughts:

1) I'm not sure you need to boil the cider. I'm not sure what affect it has, but I've had good success just tossing the cider into a carboy with some yeast, then later adding cinnamon and ginger, and sugar.

2) Give it some time. I think mine hit it's stride after about 6 months in the bottle. A lot of cider makers won't even try theirs until it's been in the bottle for a year.

Thanks Harbor. I response to your above points, I haven't boiled my cider before pitching any yeast (maybe someone else mentioned it, I'll go back and look). All I have done is warm the cider in the window sill to get up to room temp, poured into carboy, pitched yeast, capped/shook, and air locked. I am going to try a little yeast nutrient next time though.
On point 2, do you mean conditioning for 6+ months in the secondary bottle or in the bottles to be opened and consumed from?

 

[SEndorf]

I am currently using a powdered sanitizer that came with the kit but will try to pick up star san this week.

Good plan. I'm guessing here, but a lot of kits come with cleaner, not sanitizer. Particularly in powder form.
StarSan will be a good addition.

 

[HarborTownBrewing]

Thanks Harbor. I response to your above points, I haven't boiled my cider before pitching any yeast (maybe someone else mentioned it, I'll go back and look). All I have done is warm the cider in the window sill to get up to room temp, poured into carboy, pitched yeast, capped/shook, and air locked. I am going to try a little yeast nutrient next time though.
On point 2, do you mean conditioning for 6+ months in the secondary bottle or in the bottles to be opened and consumed from?

You know I'm a moron actually. In re-reading your original post, I see you mentioned the airlock was boiling, but when I originally read it I saw "boil" and assumed you meant you were boiling the juice. As you can see, I'm not an accomplished speed reader.

But anyways...I'm talking about bottle conditioning. so let the yeast do their thing in the fermentor for a month or two, then bottle (in the bottles you'll consume from) and forget about it for a few months. It should really round out and develop nicely in the bottles.

 

[wysiwyg]

For a 1 gal batch I'd recommend a refractometer over the hydrometer.... Only takes a few drops to measure the sugar/alcohol.

Also with just juice you should put in some yeast nutrient.... Helps keep the yeast happy.

A refractometer is only accurate when measuring sugar content - before fermentation. Alcohol refracts light differently and will generally show a higher reading. Use a refractometer prior to fermentation and a hydrometer after fermentation. I wouldn't even worry about FG for a 1 gal batch because you'll waste a good amount just to fill the hydrometer test tube.

If you want a general idea of alcohol content, measure OG and wait til your cider TOTALLY clears (8 weeks?) and you can 'assume' it's close to 1.000. Use an online calculator to measure ABV. Will anyone really care if it's 5.6% or 6.2%?

 

[_BullDog_]

They do a good job for determining when fermentation is complete (readings don't change) and There are calculators that translate refractometer a for FG readings.