RPh_Guy
Bringing Sour Back
Here's a link for anyone who doesn't know what that is:
http://www.********************/ingredients/a-sauergut-reactor/
From my understanding the utility is three-fold:
Lowering mash pH isn't a particularly useful function of sauergut since the lactic acid content is either a bit unpredictable, or you need to do a titration to measure it. On the other hand we have easy access to lactic acid or phosphoric acid (among others) for lowering mash pH more easily and predictably.
I can't really comment on the flavor contribution aspect since I haven't used sauergut and I'm not familiar with any beers displaying the flavor. However I brew mostly sour beer (with the bacteria alive in the final beer) and/or use high-ester yeast +/- Brett, so I'm no stranger to wild flavors. "Grape" is kind of a weird flavor descriptor; does this refer to the Concord grape?
The consumption of DO by yeast is what really intrigues me about sauergut. However, it's unclear to me exactly how much this can lower DO in a mash that contains sulfite. Wouldn't the sulfite react with DO before the yeast can access it?
Is this worth the effort? Maintaining temperature and preventing oxidation of such a relatively small quantity of wort/beer can be a challenge requiring extra work and expense. We go through such great lengths to prevent oxidation on the full batch, I'm having a difficult time imagining being able to achieve that same level of effectiveness on such a small scale. How could I prevent oxidation over several months when I don't brew on a regular basis? How can I take pH readings or gravity samples without oxidizing the sauergut? How could I remove it from the heater "reactor" without it sucking in oxygen while cooling?
My idea:
After pondering these questions and potential issues, I have a solution to provide perhaps some of the benefit of sauergut with less logistical problems:
What if instead of wort we used sugar? Mix up a 1.030 sugar solution with a bit of nutrient, toss in some grain, and hold at 48°C for a couple days.
This culture medium would be extremely less prone to oxidation compared to wort. This makes it both easier to produce and less detrimental to store for long periods and therefore eliminates the need for a prolonged heated incubation.
Comparison:
I imagine the flavor contribution might not be the same, but likely it would be similar to some extent.
The lactic acid contribution would be less, and the liquid could even be mostly decanted, so you could rely on a more predictable method of mash/wort acidification.
The yeast would presumably be equally effective at reducing DO.
Another question:
Suppose my strike water already contains plenty of active yeast from YOS, would sauergut even help reduce DO? Is there are evidence that the wild yeast on grain would be more effective at reducing DO than bread yeast? If I mash in low enough so as not to kill the bread yeast, presumably they would continue scavenging oxygen after dough-in until the temperature ramps up.
If that's true, then the sauergut would only be potentially useful to me for contributing its flavor. Though, I'm skeptical the subtle flavor would stand up to the expressive microbes I tend to use for fermentation.
Your thoughts? I like the sound of all this but I'm having trouble justifying the effort. Maybe I'll just have to give it a try once and see for myself.
http://www.********************/ingredients/a-sauergut-reactor/
From my understanding the utility is three-fold:
- The lactic acid lowers mash pH.
- The live yeast consume dissolved oxygen when a low enough dough-in temperature is also used.
- Particular flavor contribution from the wild microbes is desirable.
Lowering mash pH isn't a particularly useful function of sauergut since the lactic acid content is either a bit unpredictable, or you need to do a titration to measure it. On the other hand we have easy access to lactic acid or phosphoric acid (among others) for lowering mash pH more easily and predictably.
I can't really comment on the flavor contribution aspect since I haven't used sauergut and I'm not familiar with any beers displaying the flavor. However I brew mostly sour beer (with the bacteria alive in the final beer) and/or use high-ester yeast +/- Brett, so I'm no stranger to wild flavors. "Grape" is kind of a weird flavor descriptor; does this refer to the Concord grape?
The consumption of DO by yeast is what really intrigues me about sauergut. However, it's unclear to me exactly how much this can lower DO in a mash that contains sulfite. Wouldn't the sulfite react with DO before the yeast can access it?
Is this worth the effort? Maintaining temperature and preventing oxidation of such a relatively small quantity of wort/beer can be a challenge requiring extra work and expense. We go through such great lengths to prevent oxidation on the full batch, I'm having a difficult time imagining being able to achieve that same level of effectiveness on such a small scale. How could I prevent oxidation over several months when I don't brew on a regular basis? How can I take pH readings or gravity samples without oxidizing the sauergut? How could I remove it from the heater "reactor" without it sucking in oxygen while cooling?
My idea:
After pondering these questions and potential issues, I have a solution to provide perhaps some of the benefit of sauergut with less logistical problems:
What if instead of wort we used sugar? Mix up a 1.030 sugar solution with a bit of nutrient, toss in some grain, and hold at 48°C for a couple days.
This culture medium would be extremely less prone to oxidation compared to wort. This makes it both easier to produce and less detrimental to store for long periods and therefore eliminates the need for a prolonged heated incubation.
Comparison:
I imagine the flavor contribution might not be the same, but likely it would be similar to some extent.
The lactic acid contribution would be less, and the liquid could even be mostly decanted, so you could rely on a more predictable method of mash/wort acidification.
The yeast would presumably be equally effective at reducing DO.
Another question:
Suppose my strike water already contains plenty of active yeast from YOS, would sauergut even help reduce DO? Is there are evidence that the wild yeast on grain would be more effective at reducing DO than bread yeast? If I mash in low enough so as not to kill the bread yeast, presumably they would continue scavenging oxygen after dough-in until the temperature ramps up.
If that's true, then the sauergut would only be potentially useful to me for contributing its flavor. Though, I'm skeptical the subtle flavor would stand up to the expressive microbes I tend to use for fermentation.
Your thoughts? I like the sound of all this but I'm having trouble justifying the effort. Maybe I'll just have to give it a try once and see for myself.
