Alpine Nelson Clone Attempt

Yakima 728
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Twang said:
I emailed them and Patrick emailed me back.
"We use all flaked rye and yes we do use acidulated."

No, it goes with the video. See my previous post with screenshots.
850lb grain bill
1x 55lb sack of Simpson Maris Otter (6.5%)
1x 55lb sack of Weyermann CaraFoam (6.5%)
3x 50lb sacks of Grain Millers Rolled/Flaked Rye (17.6%)
1x 20lb~ 5 gallon mystery bucket (2.4%)
1x 20lb~ 5 gallon mystery bucket (2.4%)
1x 20lb~ 5 gallon mystery bucket (2.4%)
1x 25lb~ 6 gallon mystery bucket (2.9%)
1x 25lb~ 6 gallon mystery bucket (2.9%)
1x 505 lbs 2Row (59.4%)
Click to expand...

^25 lbs. over the reported 850 lb. grist.

The use of acidulated malt is a moot point and may or may not be necessary for all brewers who attempt to clone this beer. It is likely one of the 20 lb. buckets at 2-3% of the grist, which is used for pH balance of the brewer's water and not as a flavor contribution.
 
bobbrews said:
The use of acidulated malt is a moot point and may or may not be necessary for all brewers who attempt to clone this beer. It is likely one of the 20 lb. sacks at 2-3% of the grist, which is used for pH balance of the brewer's water and not as a flavor contribution.
Click to expand...

Right. It's not one of the sacks though. Likely a bucket.
 
Twang said:
Right. It's not one of the sacks though. Likely a bucket.
Click to expand...

So, a 20 lb. sack here is 2.4% of the grist, which seems reasonable.

A small bucket would likely be something like 0.6%, which doesn't seem as reasonable.
 
bobbrews said:
So, a 20 lb. sack here is 2.4% of the grist, which seems reasonable.

A bucket would likely be something like 0.6%, which doesn't seem as reasonable.
Click to expand...

I did not see a 20lb sack in the video... Sacks are usually 45-55lbs.
No, a bucket is around 20lbs give or take.
There are multiple mystery buckets also.
 
Twang said:
I did not see a 20lb sack in the video... There are multiple mystery buckets though.
Click to expand...

I thought you were referencing a smaller bucket, which would make the acid malt an afterthought....



However, it's written directly above in your post:

1x 20lb~ 5 gallon mystery bucket (2.4%)



...Same thing
 
Twang said:
Sacks are usually 45-55lbs.
No, a bucket is around 20lbs give or take.
There are multiple mystery buckets also.
Click to expand...


Well the way it's written, especially with the %'s, assumes the sack and bucket are one and the same. There is no distinction of 20 lb. sack AND a 5 gallon bucket.

I doubt there are 14 items in the grist for this beer.
 
bobbrews said:
Sacks are usually 45-55lbs.
No, a bucket is around 20lbs give or take.
There are multiple mystery buckets also.


Well the way it's written, especially with the %'s, assumes the sack and bucket are one and the same. There is no distinction of 20 lb. sack AND a 5 gallon bucket.
Click to expand...

Are we still talking about buckets and sacks?
In the video there are buckets and sacks. The sacks are all 50-55lbs, the buckets are 5 gallon and 6 gallons. Those buckets hold ~20lbs. A bucket is not a sack and a sack is not a bucket.

"1x 55lb sack of Simpson Maris Otter (6.5%)
1x 55lb sack of Weyermann CaraFoam (6.5%)
3x 50lb sacks of Grain Millers Rolled/Flaked Rye (17.6%)
1x 20lb~ 5 gallon mystery bucket (2.4%)
1x 20lb~ 5 gallon mystery bucket (2.4%)
1x 20lb~ 5 gallon mystery bucket (2.4%)
1x 25lb~ 6 gallon mystery bucket (2.9%)
1x 25lb~ 6 gallon mystery bucket (2.9%)"

Sorry for any confusion.
 
"1x 55lb sack of Simpson Maris Otter (6.4%)
1x 55lb sack of Weyermann CaraFoam (6.4%)
3x 50lb sacks of Grain Millers Rolled/Flaked Rye (17.5%)
1x 18lb~ 5 gallon ACIDULATED(2.1%)
1x 18lb~ 5 gallon ACIDULATED(2.1%)
1x 20lb~ 6 gallon ACIDULATED(2.3%)
1x 22lb~ 6 gallon RYE MALT(2.6%)
1x 22lb~ 6 gallon RYE MALT(2.6%)"
+ 495lbs (+/-) Pale 2-Row

Assuming the total grain bill is actually 855 (close enough to 850)

22.7% RYE component (close enough to 20%)
6.4% Dextrine component (damn near exactly what Pat had confirmed with me)
6.5% Acidulated malt (which would be right at the upper end of the window to put a San Diego water mash with this grist around 5.3 to 5.4 pH)

Unless there is a mystery malt in there somewhere, this has to be the grist.


I still don't know how Pat could have confirmed with you that the rye component is ALL flaked/rolled rye, yet confirmed with me AND shown in the video to be part flaked part malt.

Not saying you're not right just saying it doesn't add up.
 
FourSeasonAngler said:
"1x 55lb sack of Simpson Maris Otter (6.4%)
1x 55lb sack of Weyermann CaraFoam (6.4%)
3x 50lb sacks of Grain Millers Rolled/Flaked Rye (17.5%)
1x 18lb~ 5 gallon ACIDULATED(2.1%)
1x 18lb~ 5 gallon ACIDULATED(2.1%)
1x 20lb~ 6 gallon ACIDULATED(2.3%)
1x 22lb~ 6 gallon RYE MALT(2.6%)
1x 22lb~ 6 gallon RYE MALT(2.6%)"
+ 495lbs (+/-) Pale 2-Row

Assuming the total grain bill is actually 855 (close enough to 850)

22.7% RYE component (close enough to 20%)
6.4% Dextrine component (damn near exactly what Pat had confirmed with me)
6.5% Acidulated malt (which would be right at the upper end of the window to put a San Diego water mash with this grist around 5.3 to 5.4 pH)

Unless there is a mystery malt in there somewhere, this has to be the grist.


I still don't know how Pat could have confirmed with you that the rye component is ALL flaked/rolled rye, yet confirmed with me AND shown in the video to be part flaked part malt.

Not saying you're not right just saying it doesn't add up.
Click to expand...

Seems about right. I think its close enough, for me anyways.

I'm not sure why the different info on the rye. They could have changed it over time, or maybe they want to throw everyone off a little bit.

I brewed this on Sunday and split the rye between flaked and malt. I used phosphoric acid for pH adjustments. I'll post back in a few weeks with the results. They actually don't distribute to my area (believe they will this spring though) so I won't be able to do a side by side for a while.


alpine_rye.png
 
Twang said:
Seems about right. I think its close enough, for me anyways.

I'm not sure why the different info on the rye. They could have changed it over time, or maybe they want to throw everyone off a little bit.

I brewed this on Sunday and split the rye between flaked and malt. I used phosphoric acid for pH adjustments. I'll post back in a few weeks with the results. They actually don't distribute to my area (believe they will this spring though) so I won't be able to do a side by side for a while.


alpine_rye.png
Click to expand...

I look forward to hearing your results.

I have 3 lbs of Nelson hops and don't plan on brewing this beer. I'm instead going to use some of it for brewing up a Societe Pupil clone. I just need a pound of Citra...

Anyone interested in trading a pound of Nelson hops for a pound of Citra?
 
Twang said:
alpine_rye.png
Click to expand...
Whoa, Pat wasn't a dick. Today was a good day.

FourSeasonAngler said:
I look forward to hearing your results.

I have 3 lbs of Nelson hops and don't plan on brewing this beer. I'm instead going to use some of it for brewing up a Societe Pupil clone. I just need a pound of Citra...

Anyone interested in trading a pound of Nelson hops for a pound of Citra?
Click to expand...
Speaking of Societe, I wonder if there's a Roustabout clone floating around anywhere. One of the best DIPAs I've ever had.
 
Here it is. Pretty much done with active fermentation. Still bubbling a bit but it's slowed down. Really hazy but I suspect it's mostly yeast that still needs to drop out. Color is spot on, if a little on the light side. My flash was on which makes it seem a bit more orangey when in fact it's lighter than that. Sitting in the mid 60s right now. This is my first time using a plastic carboy and I gotta say I'm in love. Way easier to cool down than the thick glass and the big mouth is a nice touch for dry hopping, etc...
6gfWclK.jpg
 
That color looks pretty spot on! Can't wait to hear the verdict! I plan on brewing this in the next month or so.
 
I drink Nelson fairly often, i live about a 2 hr drive from Alpine. I have brewed the following recipe on two occasions and it is right on the money. It was from the now defunt hopville website. I sent a couple of bottles of the first batch to the original poster and he thought it was right on the money as well. Let me know if anyone attempts the following recipe. I don't care what the video says or the mystery buckets or ingredients. This recipe is the closest you will come to the original.

9.5 gal batch

Pale Malt, 2 Row, US 7.5 lb 32 %
Briess 2-Row Brewers Malt 7.0 lb 30 %
Rye 4.19 lb 18 %
Thomas Fawcett & Sons Maris Otter Pale Ale Malt 2.87 lb 12 %
Briess 2-Row Carapils® Malt 1.37 lb 5 %
Pale Malt, 6 Row, US 0.25 lb. 1%

Southern Cross 0.75 oz 65 min
Nelson Sauvin 0.5 oz 30 min
Southern Cross 0.5 oz 15 min
Southern Cross 0.75 oz 5 min
Nelson Sauvin 1.25 oz 5 min
Southern Cross 9.0 oz 11 days
Nelson Sauvin 9.0 oz 11 days

Wyeast 1450

Search Alpine Nelson Clone on BA for tasting notes on my first batch
 
rockernino said:
That color looks pretty spot on! Can't wait to hear the verdict! I plan on brewing this in the next month or so.
Click to expand...

It's slightly more on the yellow side than the orange side. The flash made it look a little darker. Also, I think my yeast was a little stressed because I'm getting some banana esters. It was harvested from previous brews and I think that's why. Just did the second dry hop (2oz Nelson, 1oz So. Cross) and while it's not Nelson (because of the yeast) it's still pretty good. Hopefully those esters fade away.
 
jammin said:
18oz dry hop for 9.5g batch? No thanks jefe
Click to expand...

I did 6oz for a 6 gallon batch and I think it's quite enough.

So here is the somewhat final product. I'll be bottling it this weekend I think.
hmGgQwD.jpg


OG 1.066
FG 1.010
ABV 7.35% which is just above the target ABV

Color is slightly lighter than Nelson. Nose and taste are definitely close to Nelson just with that slight banana ester quality. It has died down a bit so I'm hoping it's much better after bottling. More updates to come.
 
Just did a presentation on this clone at my homebrew club about 24 member in attendance. Blind tasting of Nelson brewed at Alpine, Nelson brewed at Green Flash, and my homebrewed Nelson. There was 9 votes for Alpine Nelson, 0 votes for Green Flash Nelson, and 15 votes for my homebrewed version of nelson. All commercial brews were relatively fresh picked up at the brewery about 2 weeks prior to the tasting. I have brewed the recipe twice. If you are thinking twice about the amount of dry hops , then you should be trying to brew cheap blonde ales or malt liquors, and not Nelson. This recipe ain't cheap, most of it is built of the dry hops.
 
FullSizeRender.jpg

excuse the lamp, but color was pretty damn close to original nelson, a slight more haze, but negligible , the ~20% rye grain bill will contribute to the cloudiness
 
jolopez1026:

Did you make a yeast starter? Also, if anyone has any info or advice on this please feel free to chime in: I will be attempting to brew this on my new electric brew-boss system (brew in a bag) when it arrives. It will be a full volume recirculation mash. do you have advice on the grain bill to compensate for it will be BIAB? I will be doing a 5 gallon batch so basically i will be cutting the recipe amounts in half... any info or advice will be greatly appreciated.
 
jolopez1026 said:
Just did a presentation on this clone at my homebrew club about 24 member in attendance. Blind tasting of Nelson brewed at Alpine, Nelson brewed at Green Flash, and my homebrewed Nelson. There was 9 votes for Alpine Nelson, 0 votes for Green Flash Nelson, and 15 votes for my homebrewed version of nelson. All commercial brews were relatively fresh picked up at the brewery about 2 weeks prior to the tasting. I have brewed the recipe twice. If you are thinking twice about the amount of dry hops , then you should be trying to brew cheap blonde ales or malt liquors, and not Nelson. This recipe ain't cheap, most of it is built of the dry hops.
Click to expand...

It's not about the cost, it's about how it would taste. 2oz/gal DH rate is ridiculous. On my system it would taste like azz. Maybe you have terrible efficiency w/DH or something
 
Islandstyle1787 said:
jolopez1026:

Did you make a yeast starter? Also, if anyone has any info or advice on this please feel free to chime in: I will be attempting to brew this on my new electric brew-boss system (brew in a bag) when it arrives. It will be a full volume recirculation mash. do you have advice on the grain bill to compensate for it will be BIAB? I will be doing a 5 gallon batch so basically i will be cutting the recipe amounts in half... any info or advice will be greatly appreciated.
Click to expand...
It was an 8.5 gal batch I used a starter of white labs American ale and a packet of Safale US Ale . You can download a trial of beersmith software. Punch in the recipe and scale it down to your 5 gal batch size. I would probably just divide the dry hopping by 2 and call it a day. BIAB will probably yield about a 65% efficiency is my guess. I lost about a 1.5 gal to dry hop , trub, and yeast of the 8 .5 gal. Keep that in mind when calculating your total yield. Feel free to ask me any questions. Good luck
 
Cool. Thanks man. I need to download that software. I was looking at your post with the recipe and was kinda confused Bc you said at first it was a 9.5 gallon and the yeast you used was the wyeast1450. Did you take those numbers and plug them into beersmith for an 8.5 gallon batch? So the numbers posted were not really the amounts you used. Sorry just a bit confused. Thanks
 
I yielded about 9.5 gal. But my fermenter only can fit 8.5gal, I did an experiment with remaining 1 gal , if that makes sense now.
 
@jammin do you wanna swap homebrews? i am interested in trying your Alpine Nelson Clone. I just kegged mine and bottled a couple bombers last weekend!
 
jolopez1026 said:
@jammin do you wanna swap homebrews? i am interested in trying your Alpine Nelson Clone. I just kegged mine and bottled a couple bombers last weekend!
Click to expand...

id send a bottle out to you today if there was some left :(

Im brewing my nelson/mosaic/simcoe Rye IPA this weekend, then a PtE clone. So I won't be brewing it again for about 3 more weeks.

Id gladly homebrew swap w/something else I have on deck though?
 
Keene Idea - Nelson and Motueka
Hoppy Birthday - Pacific Jade, Centennial, Amarillo, Columbus, Nelson Sauvin, Citra, and Simcoe

That's all I got.
 

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