All NEIPA recipes taste the same

[AlexKay]

My current NEIPA keg just kicked so I need to begin recipe planning. Can anyone recommend a solid NEIPA hop schedule that I can try, that will not taste like the typical citra/galaxy batch (as all my batches taste)? I will be using Verdant IPA yeast.

Here’s my recipe for a 2.5-gallon batch of double IPA; obviously you’d want something less alcoholic and less bitter for the NE version. But the hop character is excellent:

RO water, Ca 140, SO4 75, Cl 200

3.6 lb. Pale Ale Malt (~2.5L)
3.6 lb. Vienna (~4L)
0.8 lb. flaked barley
0.7 lb. flaked oats (I was going to use all barley, but ran out)
0.3 lb. honey malt

OG 1.090/FG 1.010

single-infusion mash @ 148 F, 60 minutes

60-minute boil:
8 g Magnum (15.4% AA) @ 60 min.
12 g Elani/YQH-1320 (8.8% AA) @ 20 min.
10 g Nelson Sauvin (12.2% AA) @ 20 min.
10 g Cashmere LUPOMAX (13.5% AA) @ 20 min.
12 g Elani/YQH-1320 (8.8% AA) @ 5 min.
10 g Nelson Sauvin (12.2% AA) @ 5 min.
10 g Cashmere LUPOMAX (13.5% AA) @ 5 min.
12 g Elani/YQH-1320 (8.8% AA) hop stand @ 160 F for 10 min.
10 g Nelson Sauvin (12.2% AA) hop stand @ 160 F for 10 min.
10 g Cashmere LUPOMAX (13.5% AA) hop stand @ 160 F for 10 min.
24 g Elani/YQH-1320 (8.8% AA) dry hop @ packaging
20 g Nelson Sauvin (12.2% AA) dry hop @ packaging
20 g Cashmere LUPOMAX (13.5% AA) dry hop @ packaging
(I usually use a serving keg with a screened, floating dip tube. The dry hop charge is put in the keg, the keg is purged, beer is transferred in, and then the keg goes immediately into the cooler where it stays at serving temperature from that point on. I haven't had a problem with vegetal flavors developing, but I drink it quickly.)

 

[BongoYodeler]

Here’s my recipe for a 2.5-gallon batch of double IPA; obviously you’d want something less alcoholic and less bitter for the NE version. But the hop character is excellent:

RO water, Ca 140, SO4 75, Cl 200

3.6 lb. Pale Ale Malt (~2.5L)
3.6 lb. Vienna (~4L)
0.8 lb. flaked barley
0.7 lb. flaked oats (I was going to use all barley, but ran out)
0.3 lb. honey malt

OG 1.090/FG 1.010

single-infusion mash @ 148 F, 60 minutes

60-minute boil:
8 g Magnum (15.4% AA) @ 60 min.
12 g Elani/YQH-1320 (8.8% AA) @ 20 min.
10 g Nelson Sauvin (12.2% AA) @ 20 min.
10 g Cashmere LUPOMAX (13.5% AA) @ 20 min.
12 g Elani/YQH-1320 (8.8% AA) @ 5 min.
10 g Nelson Sauvin (12.2% AA) @ 5 min.
10 g Cashmere LUPOMAX (13.5% AA) @ 5 min.
12 g Elani/YQH-1320 (8.8% AA) hop stand @ 160 F for 10 min.
10 g Nelson Sauvin (12.2% AA) hop stand @ 160 F for 10 min.
10 g Cashmere LUPOMAX (13.5% AA) hop stand @ 160 F for 10 min.
24 g Elani/YQH-1320 (8.8% AA) dry hop @ packaging
20 g Nelson Sauvin (12.2% AA) dry hop @ packaging
20 g Cashmere LUPOMAX (13.5% AA) dry hop @ packaging
(I usually use a serving keg with a screened, floating dip tube. The dry hop charge is put in the keg, the keg is purged, beer is transferred in, and then the keg goes immediately into the cooler where it stays at serving temperature from that point on. I haven't had a problem with vegetal flavors developing, but I drink it quickly.)

Sounds good.
I like the idea of 2.5 gallon batches. I think I’ll eventually move to that as I get older and my back gets even more finicky. Kettle and smaller kegs are no big deal to find but I haven’t seen smaller fermenters that have the ability to pressure transfer. Do they exist? What’s your transfer method?

 

[HM-2]

My current NEIPA keg just kicked so I need to begin recipe planning. Can anyone recommend a solid NEIPA hop schedule that I can try, that will not taste like the typical citra/galaxy batch (as all my batches taste)? I will be using Verdant IPA yeast.

The last great one I did was:

• 15 IBU Motueka at 30 minutes
• 70g Motueka (4 IBU) / 50g Vic Secret Cryo (7.5 IBU) / 25g BRU-1 Cryo (4 IBU) whirlpool @ 75°C
• 150g BRU-1 Cryo / 75g Motueka / 60g Vic Secret Cryo dry hop when a few points off FG

That was in a 6.8% beer with a 1.070 OG and 1.018 FG. MO, Golden Naked Oats, Wheat and Flaked Oats, fermented with Koln.

 

[AlexKay]

Sounds good.
I like the idea of 2.5 gallon batches. I think I’ll eventually move to that as I get older and my back gets even more finicky. Kettle and smaller kegs are no big deal to find but I haven’t seen smaller fermenters that have the ability to pressure transfer. Do they exist? What’s your transfer method?

I ferment in 3-gallon kegs with a FlotIt. Purge a second keg with fermentation CO2, spund, closed transfer through the posts.

My 1-gallon batches I do in 1.75-gallon kegs.

 

[Bago-0]

There are differences in a persons ability to taste based on the number and type of papillae in the tongue. Some people are considered super tasters (Not me) and can tell the subtle difference in hops bitterness. Others cannot discern the subtle differences. I have read articles in my medical literature describing this and studies have been done to count the papillae and confirm this idea. So, I am also one of the people that cannot tell the difference among most NEIPA's. I just like them. My wife is a supertaster and collects wine. When I go with her to wine tastings I laugh at all the flavors being described and I either like the wine or I don't. She can tell the subtle differences.

 

[RyPA]

There are differences in a persons ability to taste based on the number and type of papillae in the tongue. Some people are considered super tasters (Not me) and can tell the subtle difference in hops bitterness. Others cannot discern the subtle differences. I have read articles in my medical literature describing this and studies have been done to count the papillae and confirm this idea. So, I am also one of the people that cannot tell the difference among most NEIPA's. I just like them. My wife is a supertaster and collects wine. When I go with her to wine tastings I laugh at all the flavors being described and I either like the wine or I don't. She can tell the subtle differences.

I always thought the breweries that claim notes of dragon fruit or ripe apricot were blowing smoke but maybe what you said helps justify it, partly at least.

A brewery near me does a really good beer called mosaic punch, they condition it on peaches I believe and add lactose. Peach is the flavor I’m after and maybe the flavor is not going to be derived from the hops and I need to condition on fruit.

 

[day_trippr]

Peach is the flavor I’m after and maybe the flavor is not going to be derived from the hops and I need to condition on fruit.

You could try using a "Conan" yeast strain and run it chill - like, around 60°F. I did that once and all by itself it pounded major peach character into the "Vermont Hazy" I was brewing (think Alchemist and all that )...

Cheers!

 

[RyPA]

What are your guys thoughts on this recipe? My goal is to not use galaxy or citra and see what I get (a different tasting NEIPA). I always struggle with how much hops to use in the whirlpool and dry hop. I'm not sure how I feel about the mosaic that brings resin/pine to the table, or glass.

I also have some vic secret and simcoe on hand.

Thanks

https://www.brewersfriend.com/homebrew/recipe/view/1470116/amarillo-mosaic-nectaron-neipa

 

[day_trippr]

I've never used Nectaron but I use lots of Mosaic and Amarillo every year, and that combination looks favorable to me.
One of these days I'm going to give Nectaron a try...

https://beermaverick.com/hops/hop-comparison-tool/

Cheers!

 

[RyPA]

@day_trippr yeah I use that same tool, and not sure how I feel about the pine resin. And the other question, how much at whirlpool and dry hop

 

[day_trippr]

fwiw, in 2024 I consolidated my hazy IPA hop schedule to this:

- I typically use Chinook or CTZ for a T60 bittering addition
- 1 ounce of each character hop at T5
- 2 ounces of each character hop for a 20 minute 170°F post-boil whirlpool
- post fermentation two day "soft crash" to 50°F
- 2 ounces of each character hop for a two day dry hop
- hard crash for two days then keg

This has been providing robust and persistent hop character all the way to the end of each keg...

Cheers!

[edit] ^for ten gallon batches^

 

[AlexKay]

Just poured my first glass of a triple IPA (or whatever you want to call a very bitter, over-the-top fruity, 12.5% ABV ale). Nectaron/Grove/Sultana. It is so choice. If you have the means, I highly recommend picking one up.

 

[RyPA]

fwiw, in 2024 I consolidated my hazy IPA hop schedule to this:

- I typically use Chinook or CTZ for a T60 bittering addition
- 1 ounce of each character hop at T5
- 2 ounces of each character hop for a 20 minute 170°F post-boil whirlpool
- post fermentation two day "soft crash" to 50°F
- 2 ounces of each character hop for a two day dry hop
- hard crash for two days then keg

This has been providing robust and persistent hop character all the way to the end of each keg...

Cheers!

[edit] ^for ten gallon batches^

Just saw your note on 10g batch. I wonder how much, if any, I can dial it back for a 6g batch. A lot of guys will say that is way too little hops for a NEIPA, even for a 5 gallon batch.

 

[HM-2]

Just saw your note on 10g batch. I wonder how much, if any, I can dial it back for a 6g batch. A lot of guys will say that is way too little hops for a NEIPA, even for a 5 gallon batch.

For a 6g batch, assuming that you're doing 3 flavour hops, you're looking at about 7g/L. I'd consider that to be on the lower side even if 100% Cryo. I generally target 10-12g/L but have gone as high as 16g in DIPAs. The best Hazy breweries often hit 20g/L plus...

I've mentioned before but IME the whirlpool is more important than the dry hop in a NEIPA. 3.5g/L at 5m and 7g/L at whirlpool is going to be pretty flavoursome. Probably decent levels of bitterness too which should help with the structure. I seldom do a 30m/60m addition in hazies (in fact I seldom do.a 60m boil full stop) but will often do 10-15m bittering additions.

 

[RyPA]

So that brings another question, is lack of hops the missing piece to my flavor (all tasting the same) issue?

 

[VikeMan]

Just poured my first glass of a triple IPA (or whatever you want to call a very bitter, over-the-top fruity, 12.5% ABV ale). Nectaron/Grove/Sultana. It is so choice. If you have the means, I highly recommend picking one up.

 

[HM-2]

So that brings another question, is lack of hops the missing piece to my flavor (all tasting the same) issue?

I think it's probably a contributor.

The last hazy I brewed had the following hopping schedule (this is a single hop hazy as part of a range of SH ones I'm experimenting with, same grist and yeast).

10g BRU-1 LupoMAX at 15m
160g BRU-1 LupoMAX 20m whirlpool at 75°C
100g BRU-1 LupoMAX day 2 high krausen DH
180g BRU-1 LupoMAX at day 7 for 2 days after soft crash to 12°C.

That's very nearly a full pound of hops in a 6.5g batch. And it smelled absolutely incredible at kegging.

 

[day_trippr]

fwiw, I've been brewing hazies since 2016 (Heady Topper clone was my first) and started with dry hopping twice as much (two rounds) but found if I switched from using flaked to malted adjuncts (oats and wheat) the haze persistence and hop character intensity both matched up with commercial products and lasted until the kegs kick. Ie: flaked adjuncts will fall out faster and take hop character with it.

I still do one recipe with twice the dry hops as above - an all-Citra bomb where the insane intensity is appreciated - but the rest follow the outline provided...

Cheers!

 

[RyPA]

Thanks @day_trippr. Think I'm going to try this. If anyone has any suggestions please weigh in!

Amarillo, Mosaic, and Nectaron

2 ounce of each for a 30 minute 170°F whirlpool
2 ounces of each for dry-hop (I ferment/serve in the same keg so they will be in the keg for life)

Totals:
6 oz total for WP
6 oz total for DH

 

[AlexKay]

I’d drop the Mosaic. It’s overpowering.

 

[RyPA]

I’d drop the Mosaic. It’s overpowering.

Thanks, going to sub that with Vic secret

 

[ThirstyPawsHB]

I’ve been playing around with my own versions of low ABV NEIPA and trying to study what information is out there. My next step is using phantasm from More Beer and then thiolized yeast strains. I’m just changing one thing at a time, to see how it works for me, but I believe the instructions say to use the phantasm with the thiolized yeast. Bio-transformation to pull out the desired flavor notes from the hops is what I’m going after. There are several interesting podcasts available where all the above is discussed by people with more knowledge and experience than I have.

Just completed a brew using Omega Vossa-Nova new strain which, supposedly, has thiolized qualities and non-detectable diacytal production. Used Elani and Nectron for the hops. If I can remember, I'll report back otherwise results will be on the "What are you drinking now?" thread.

 

[couchsending]

You said you’re fermenting and serving in the same keg? I would point to this being the issue over anything else. Your hop character is just being muted by all the yeast still remaining in the keg you’re serving from. If you truly want unique hop character to shine you need to remove as much yeast as possible from the vessel you’re dry hopping in. Hop oils will stick to yeast cells and get dragged down and out of your beer. Plus the more those yeast cells are coated with oils the quicker they are to die. You’ve got a keg full of dead yeast you’re serving from.

Essentially without temp control and serving from the same vessel you’re just overpowering hop character with yeast character. Verdant should definitely taste way different than kviek especially Voss.

Ditch the dry hop during fermentation, it’s not doing much of anything.

It’s not hard at all to create an oxygen free environment to transfer your beer into. Wait until fermentation has finished, give it a few days and transfer (ideally with a floating dip tube) into a purged keg (look up how to purge a keg with water or fermentation) then dry hop in that keg. When adding hops have the gas hooked up to create a Co2 positive environment and then yeah purge a bunch and you should be fine.

 

[RyPA]

You said you’re fermenting and serving in the same keg? I would point to this being the issue over anything else. Your hop character is just being muted by all the yeast still remaining in the keg you’re serving from. If you truly want unique hop character to shine you need to remove as much yeast as possible from the vessel you’re dry hopping in. Hop oils will stick to yeast cells and get dragged down and out of your beer. Plus the more those yeast cells are coated with oils the quicker they are to die. You’ve got a keg full of dead yeast you’re serving from.

Essentially without temp control and serving from the same vessel you’re just overpowering hop character with yeast character. Verdant should definitely taste way different than kviek especially Voss.

Ditch the dry hop during fermentation, it’s not doing much of anything.

It’s not hard at all to create an oxygen free environment to transfer your beer into. Wait until fermentation has finished, give it a few days and transfer (ideally with a floating dip tube) into a purged keg (look up how to purge a keg with water or fermentation) then dry hop in that keg. When adding hops have the gas hooked up to create a Co2 positive environment and then yeah purge a bunch and you should be fine.

I have fermented in a separate vessel before and did not see a significant difference, but maybe I need to experiment more with that. I’ve always wondered if the yeast cake would negatively impact the beer — I ruled yeast in suspension out given it should fall to the bottom with the keg being in the fridge.

I may invest in a new fermenter, I’d like one that is stainless and would allow me to easily transfer and ideally dry hop without exposing the beer to o2.

 

[HM-2]

Getting my beer off the yeast cake before DH has been one of my biggest positive processes changes in brewing hazies. Makes a massive difference.

 

[RyPA]

Yeah I think I’m going to switch to fermenting in a fermenter. I found this one, and will pick up a triclamp dry hop add on

https://www.deltabrewingsystems.com...ingsystems.com/products/the-fermtank-8-gallon


https://www.morebeer.com/products/b...2Kgam_yI-HEIxMa6fLM40gZK-eKnOldUaAoDhEALw_wcB

 

[DonT]

Yeah I think I’m going to switch to fermenting in a fermenter. I found this one, and will pick up a triclamp dry hop add on

https://www.deltabrewingsystems.com...ingsystems.com/products/the-fermtank-8-gallon


https://www.morebeer.com/products/b...2Kgam_yI-HEIxMa6fLM40gZK-eKnOldUaAoDhEALw_wcB

Just a note here... That Ferm Tank is only rated to 2.5psi, so you can't pressure ferment. I may just be pointing out the obvious here, so just ignore me...

 

[RyPA]

Just a note here... That Ferm Tank is only rated to 2.5psi, so you can't pressure ferment. I may just be pointing out the obvious here, so just ignore me...

I didn’t get into that level of the specs but thanks for pointing it out. I’ve only pressure fermented once, but that’s not to say I won’t want to in the future. It would at least support a few psi for sealed transfers.

 

[couchsending]

There’s no real benefit to pressure fermenting… most yeasts don’t like it anyways

 

[HM-2]

There’s no real benefit to pressure fermenting… most yeasts don’t like it anyways

There are two primary use cases I see for pressure fermenting:

1) Fermenting lagers at ambient temperatures in the absence of any kind of cooler/chiller availability.

2) For natural carbonation in the primary in the case of non-expressive yeasts where the suppression of ester production doesn't matter.

There's a few more use cases for having a fermenter that can hold a bit of pressure related to NEIPAs; I like a couple of PSI during dry hop as an additional protection against oxidation, and it does help with closed transfers.


Honestly, the only time I ever actually ferment under pressure these days is in brewing lagers.

 

[AlexKay]

I always let the main fermentation run at normal (atmospheric) pressure, but as it’s finishing up, the spunding valve goes on.

You usually don’t know how much trace O2 there is in your CO2 cylinder—there may be a specced maximum value, but generally not an actual analysis. Because force carbonation uses a lot of gas (more than dispensing), there’s at least a theoretical risk of significant oxygen introduction. (Old post.)

Plus, spunding gets you grain-to-glass a few days earlier.

 

[HM-2]

I always let the main fermentation run at normal (atmospheric) pressure, but as it’s finishing up, the spunding valve goes on.

This is exactly my process for like 90% of beers. A few PSI both acts as a safety blanket and gets you a decent head start on CO2 necessary for a closed transfer (I haven't done an open transfer in like...3 years)

 

[RyPA]

This is exactly my process for like 90% of beers. A few PSI both acts as a safety blanket and gets you a decent head start on CO2 necessary for a closed transfer (I haven't done an open transfer in like...3 years)

Same, the few times I've pressure fermented it was to simulate colder fermentation temps and to get a head start on carbing.

How is your BRU-1 Hazy? As this thread title suggests I am trying to find something different (recipe or process) to brew and have never used BRU-1.

My thoughts/take-aways so far:
1. Switch to a fermenter to get the finished beer off of the yeast cake. For the past few years I've fermented + served from the same keg.
2. I always use dry yeast (Voss Kveik, Verdant IPA, US-04/US-05), any significant advantages to trying a liquid strain?
3. I have always questioned if I am adding the appropriate amount of hops at the WP and DH stages, how do you guys figure out the size of additions? I use BrewersFriend and it shows no IBU values for cold additions, but I think cold side hops still bring some IBU's to the table. I rarely add hops on the hot side - maybe I need to begin adding a few IBUs here. I only brew 5-5.5 gallon batches.
4. Reduce citra and galaxy additions as they overpower everything else.

 

[HM-2]

How is your BRU-1 Hazy? As this thread title suggests I am trying to find something different (recipe or process) to brew and have never used BRU-1.

It's great, with some caveats I'll come onto a bit later in this post. I very recently posted the framework recipe I used for it, which can be found here: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/threads/drenched-in-hop-single-hop-hazy-ipa-framework.732113/

It's the culmination of my attempts to design a framework Hazy IPA for testing single hops. I think it would be reasonably easy to adapt for 2 or 3 hop beers but giving the ultimate opportunity for a specific varietal to express itself was kind of the point


In respect of BRU-1 specifically, it's (as used in this beer) pretty great as a single hop experiment. The recipe as written above had just shy of a pound of Cryo BRU-1 in it. Personally I think it's better as a secondary hop because even in 20% AA Cryo form it's not super punchy like a Citra or Galaxy, or even a Strata.

BRU-1 is surprisingly complex with lots of ripe pineapple, sweet citrus and loads of what I'd best describe as baking spices, cinnamon and vanilla in particular. In the single hop hazy it pushes a sort of Brazilian steakhouse style spit roasted pineapple that's not aggressively punch you in the face but is nonetheless extremely delicious.

 

[ThirstyPawsHB]

Yeah I think I’m going to switch to fermenting in a fermenter. I found this one, and will pick up a triclamp dry hop add on

https://www.deltabrewingsystems.com...ingsystems.com/products/the-fermtank-8-gallon


https://www.morebeer.com/products/b...2Kgam_yI-HEIxMa6fLM40gZK-eKnOldUaAoDhEALw_wcB

Do you have fermentation temperature concerns? If so have you thought of a solution? Curious minds would like to know...

 

[RyPA]

Do you have fermentation temperature concerns? If so have you thought of a solution? Curious minds would like to know...

Yes and no. I live in NJ so I select my yeast based on the time of year. Summer time I have been using Voss Kveik, fall/winter/spring I usually use Verdant, or whatever likes being in the mid/high 60's or room temp. I'd like to have full temperature control, but not sure the bang for the buck is worth it. If this was guaranteed to bring my NEIPA's from a 7 to 10, I'd do it in a heartbeat.