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aubiecat said:
ALCAP wants to get Mac McCutcheon out of office because he actually did what his constituents wanted?

ALCAP needs to feel the wrath of the people.

Jesus Christ would not be welcomed by the "moral compass" because he turned water into wine.
Click to expand...

It's kind of funny. ALCAP cites a book on alcohol in the Bible (full disclosure: I'm a pretty conservative Christian myself and am very familiar with the Bible). I found the book online a while back and skimmed through it. They spend a good bit of time addressing Jesus' first miracle: The turning of water into wine at the wedding at Cana.

The basic argument is as follows:
1) In those days they had the ability to make non-alcoholic beverages from grapes and other fruits.
2) Since drinking wine with alcohol is inappropriate, Jesus couldn't have made alcoholic drinks available to the people at Cana (especially since there were probably children at the wedding - it's inconceivable to think that Jesus would put alcoholic drinks in front of them!).
3) Therefore the "wine" Jesus made at Cana was more of a non-alcoholic grape juice.
4) Since the beverages were non-alcoholic, this passage is not justification for drinking.
5) As a result, it's clear that drinking wine with alcohol is inappropriate.

The actual argument in the book was much more detailed and extensive, and the author probably wouldn't agree that this is a fair synopsis, but this is really what it boiled down to.
 
DocBrown said:
It's kind of funny. ALCAP cites a book on alcohol in the Bible (full disclosure: I'm a pretty conservative Christian myself and am very familiar with the Bible). I found the book online a while back and skimmed through it. They spend a good bit of time addressing Jesus' first miracle: The turning of water into wine at the wedding at Cana.

The basic argument is as follows:
1) In those days they had the ability to make non-alcoholic beverages from grapes and other fruits.
2) Since drinking wine with alcohol is inappropriate, Jesus couldn't have made alcoholic drinks available to the people at Cana (especially since there were probably children at the wedding - it's inconceivable to think that Jesus would put alcoholic drinks in front of them!).
3) Therefore the "wine" Jesus made at Cana was more of a non-alcoholic grape juice.
4) Since the beverages were non-alcoholic, this passage is not justification for drinking.
5) As a result, it's clear that drinking wine with alcohol is inappropriate.

The actual argument in the book was much more detailed and extensive, and the author probably wouldn't agree that this is a fair synopsis, but this is really what it boiled down to.
Click to expand...

Dang, apart from the fact that the pressed grapes would become wine whether they wanted to or not, even the rest is hogwash. Talk about revisionist mumbo-jumbo
 
DocBrown said:
It's kind of funny. ALCAP cites a book on alcohol in the Bible (full disclosure: I'm a pretty conservative Christian myself and am very familiar with the Bible). I found the book online a while back and skimmed through it. They spend a good bit of time addressing Jesus' first miracle: The turning of water into wine at the wedding at Cana.

The basic argument is as follows:
1) In those days they had the ability to make non-alcoholic beverages from grapes and other fruits.
2) Since drinking wine with alcohol is inappropriate, Jesus couldn't have made alcoholic drinks available to the people at Cana (especially since there were probably children at the wedding - it's inconceivable to think that Jesus would put alcoholic drinks in front of them!).
3) Therefore the "wine" Jesus made at Cana was more of a non-alcoholic grape juice.
4) Since the beverages were non-alcoholic, this passage is not justification for drinking.
5) As a result, it's clear that drinking wine with alcohol is inappropriate.

The actual argument in the book was much more detailed and extensive, and the author probably wouldn't agree that this is a fair synopsis, but this is really what it boiled down to.
Click to expand...

I just read that argument, and went in to see my fiancee. I needed a hug. WTHeck?
 
wailingguitar said:
Dang, apart from the fact that the pressed grapes would become wine whether they wanted to or not, even the rest is hogwash. Talk about revisionist mumbo-jumbo
Click to expand...

Yes, they seem to forget that the first century Jews didn't pasteurize, vacuum pack, and refrigerate after opening.



"Every man serves the good wine first and then, after men have drunk freely, that which is poorer. But you have saved the good wine until last."--The head waiter
 
I grew up in a southern Baptist church so I have heard that argument my whole life.
It's convenient that Jesus made grape juice from water and convenient that grape juice used to be called wine.

Which version of the bible did that come from?
King James Version
New International Version
Revised Standard Version
The Living Bible
New Living Translation
World English Bible
New King James Version
New International Readers Editions
American Standard Version
New American Standard Version
Young's Literal Translation
Plain English Bible
New English Bible
Amplified Bible
Basic English Bible
Translator's NT
20th Century Bible
Modern King James Version
The Message
Hebrew Names Version of World English Bible
Contemporary English Version
English Version for the Death
Good News Version
New Century Version
New Revised Standard Version
J. B. Phillips New Testament, modern English
 
Obviously, it's wine.

The_Wedding_at_Cana.JPG
 
Here is the bible verse in question.
New International Version

John 2:1-11

New International Version (NIV)
Jesus Changes Water Into Wine

2 On the third day a wedding took place at Cana in Galilee. Jesus’ mother was there, 2 and Jesus and his disciples had also been invited to the wedding. 3 When the wine was gone, Jesus’ mother said to him, “They have no more wine.”

4 “Woman,[a] why do you involve me?” Jesus replied. “My hour has not yet come.”

5 His mother said to the servants, “Do whatever he tells you.”

6 Nearby stood six stone water jars, the kind used by the Jews for ceremonial washing, each holding from twenty to thirty gallons.

7 Jesus said to the servants, “Fill the jars with water”; so they filled them to the brim.

8 Then he told them, “Now draw some out and take it to the master of the banquet.”

They did so, 9 and the master of the banquet tasted the water that had been turned into wine. He did not realize where it had come from, though the servants who had drawn the water knew. Then he called the bridegroom aside 10 and said, “Everyone brings out the choice wine first and then the cheaper wine after the guests have had too much to drink; but you have saved the best till now.”

11 What Jesus did here in Cana of Galilee was the first of the signs through which he revealed his glory; and his disciples believed in him.

The master of the banquet is saying the wine Jesus made was high quality wine, not Welches sparkling grape juice.
Here is one of the times when the bible says what it says.
 
"It is a mistake to think that Christians ought all to be teetotallers; Mohammedanism, not Christianity, is the teetotal religion."

C. S. Lewis, Mere Christianity
 
What part of brewing is currently the felony in Alabama? Is it the mash? Is it the sparge? Is it the boil? Is it the cooling? Is it the fermenting? Is it the bottling?

I imagine it would probably not be a felony until the fermenting. I know it is not practical but someone should go through a brew day in front of the clowns. Show that brewing requires patience, time, and money. That the vast majority of homebrewers are people that appreciate the taste of their hobby and the challenge of perfecting it. It is not just a way of getting drunk.

I really would like to know at what point brewing becomes a felony.
 
aubiecat said:
Here is the bible verse in question.
New International Version

John 2:1-11

New International Version (NIV)
Jesus Changes Water Into Wine

2 On the third day a wedding took place at Cana in Galilee. Jesus’ mother was there, 2 and Jesus and his disciples had also been invited to the wedding. 3 When the wine was gone, Jesus’ mother said to him, “They have no more wine.”

4 “Woman,[a] why do you involve me?” Jesus replied. “My hour has not yet come.”

5 His mother said to the servants, “Do whatever he tells you.”

6 Nearby stood six stone water jars, the kind used by the Jews for ceremonial washing, each holding from twenty to thirty gallons.

7 Jesus said to the servants, “Fill the jars with water”; so they filled them to the brim.

8 Then he told them, “Now draw some out and take it to the master of the banquet.”

They did so, 9 and the master of the banquet tasted the water that had been turned into wine. He did not realize where it had come from, though the servants who had drawn the water knew. Then he called the bridegroom aside 10 and said, “Everyone brings out the choice wine first and then the cheaper wine after the guests have had too much to drink; but you have saved the best till now.”

11 What Jesus did here in Cana of Galilee was the first of the signs through which he revealed his glory; and his disciples believed in him.

The master of the banquet is saying the wine Jesus made was high quality wine, not Welches sparkling grape juice.
Here is one of the times when the bible says what it says.
Click to expand...


Which shows how completely ridiculous the book referenced above (as well as the way that some teetotalers choose to believe) really is. "Everyone brings out the choice wine first and then the cheaper wine after the guests have had too much to drink..."

Friend, they aren't referencing "too much to drink" by meaning that the guests were full, and thus didn't care if the "grape juice" was good.

Incidentally, this argument is quite academic. The original word used in the New Testament is the Greek word pronounced "oy-nos". This word SPECIFICALLY means fermented wine, not juice. The same word is used by Paul in Ephesians (among other epistles) to warn against drunkenness.

Drunkenness is frowned upon by God. Alcohol use is not.

We can pull the Hebrew word used throughout the Old Testament when God talks about His blessings for His people (hint: wine is among them).... but we're just talking about Caanan right now.

Jesus definitively made actual, alcoholic, wine - and it was of excellent quality.
 
It does iirc clearly state any equipment that can be used to produce alcohol is illegal. That would of course make every pot, ladle, bucket, propane burner, etc a felony. While I'm going from memory, I think it also said you could not possess illegally manufactured alcohol but I've always wondered if you could beat that since it's allowed federally.
 
Accidic said:
It does iirc clearly state any equipment that can be used to produce alcohol is illegal. That would of course make every pot, ladle, bucket, propane burner, etc a felony. While I'm going from memory, I think it also said you could not possess illegally manufactured alcohol but I've always wondered if you could beat that since it's allowed federally.
Click to expand...

You are correct - and this is not enforced, as there are a few homebrew supply shops in Alabama, which run as legal, licened businesses.

I don't know of any instance of the law being enforced unless other laws were broken (and even then, this is extremely rare). Since the laws on the books predate the federal okay, I would expect that the charges could not stick... but I'd rather just be legal for sure.
 
Guys.... best of luck. I have written, rewritten and deleted about 6 different posts tonight because I know you dont want to hear my political point of view, but for what its worth... this damn yankee is in alabama homebrewers's corner.
 
CreamyGoodness said:
Guys.... best of luck. I have written, rewritten and deleted about 6 different posts tonight because I know you dont want to hear my political point of view, but for what its worth... this damn yankee is in alabama homebrewers's corner.
Click to expand...

We appreciate it, too.


As an aside to those more local to the issues - I'm glad that Free the Hops is making such a big deal out of getting people to contact the governor to sign the Gourmet bottle bill. I'm peeved, though, that they have pretty much quit mentioning the homebrewing bill. I sent them a facebook message, but no joy there.
 
homebrewdad said:
We appreciate it, too.


As an aside to those more local to the issues - I'm glad that Free the Hops is making such a big deal out of getting people to contact the governor to sign the Gourmet bottle bill. I'm peeved, though, that they have pretty much quit mentioning the homebrewing bill. I sent them a facebook message, but no joy there.
Click to expand...

Talked to FTH members this weekend at the Rocket City Brewfest. There is alot of support and interest in getting the homebrew bill passed and was told that possibly FTH would work in the future for improvements to the homebrewing law if it passes this year.

This is off FTH's blog.


By Gabe Harris | Published: May 14, 2012
Gourmet Bottle Bill

To all of those who have been contacting Governor Bentley expressing your support for the Gourmet Bottle Bill (SB294)…THANK YOU!

But we are still only two-thirds of the way to our goal of making the GBB a state law.

If you have not contacted the Governor’s office please do so. If you have contacted his office then tell your friends and family that we need their help as well.

Contacting his office takes less than 60 seconds. Just give them your name, where you live and that you would like Governor Bentley to sign Senate Bill 294 into law.

You can contact the Governor via email through his website or by phone/fax.

I cannot stress enough how important it is for you to contact Governor Bentley expressing your support for SB294. We are almost there and we need your help to cross the finish line.

Homebrewing Update

The homebrewing bill only has one more day to get a vote before the 2012 legislative session ends. If the bill is not brought up this Wednesday then the homebrew bill will die. Please contact Senator Jabo Waggoner (Rules Committee Chairperson) at [email protected] or 334-242-7892 and Senator Del Marsh (President Pro Tempore) at [email protected] (Chief of Staff) or 334-242-7877. Ask them politely to put HB354, the Alabama Homebrew Bill, on the Senate Calendar for a vote.

Posted in politics | 2 Comments
 
Don't get me wrong hbdad, I wholeheartedly agree. Having served on a grand jury in this state recently tho I found that they keep stupid laws there for leverage. This was highlighted by them wanting to throw the book at a few minor crimes (inconsistent with their instructions I might add) yet wanting to dismiss charges against the multiple count violent crime with injury case even tho the evidence was rock solid.
 
Using some of the logic I've seen here, I should be allowed to outlaw football. I dont play it, dont usually watch it, and I saw that one riot on tv that one time (dont remember where)...

I dont like it, no one else should play or watch it. I am going to exercise my right to deprive others of rights.

Geez, people stink.
 
Those of you who live in Alabama -

IF YOU HAVEN'T MADE THE 3 CALLS, DO IT NOW. We HAVE to get HB354 on the SOC tomorrow. You need to make 3 phone calls to be sure this happens.

#1
Senator Jabo Waggoner, Rules Committee Chairperson
334-242-7892

#2
Senator Del Marsh, President Pro Tempore
334-242-7877

Tell these two to please do all they can to get HB354, the Homebrew Bill, on the Calendar for tomorrow.

Then,

#3 - Call YOUR Senator (http://freethehops.org/legislative/) and let them know you are a constituent and that you really want their support in passing HB354.


MAKE THESE 3 CALLS. It doesn't take 5 minutes. There is nothing to be intimidated by, there is NO REASON to not call!!!
 
Nah man, I have no use for College sports... I barely cared what my school's teams did when I was going to school 20 years ago (WMU), sure don't care now!
 
Ha!

You know it's all in fun:mug:

I was stationed in Fairport back in the late 80s for three years. I really enjoyed my time there. Can't say I care much for the Buckeyes, though...
 
Pappers_ said:
Here's hoping your legislators do the right thing today.
Click to expand...

I am nervous to see if it gets on the Calendar. If it does, it looks as if it will pass, but in Alabama any vote for an alcohol related bill is a risky political move. There isn't as much economic impact or incentive for the Home Brew Bill as there was for the Bottle Bill that passed earlier.
 
Just called Waggonner, Marsh and Irons again... now all I have to do is wait and pray... I hate waiting LOL
 

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