Airlock confusion

[natural]

Hey,

So the first thing I bought was a beer kit. Came bagged in a box heat water, mix, pitch yeast and then it had me leave it in a primary fermenter 3-6 days until the yeast foam had dropped. All that was left was this residu of the hops it made me toss in right before the yeast.

I've tasted the beer and it seems fine it bubbled like crazy but my primary doesn't have an airlock. It's not a completely tight seal either it's rather easy to lift it up, and then I transfered it into my carboy last night none of the foam is on top and I left all of the sediment in the bottom of my primary (unsure if I should have done that but it looked like diarrhea).

Now my glass carboy has an airlock and i've put it on but there's no action and no bubbling in my carboy. Is this because all of the fermenting is over? It's had been 4-5 days since I pitched the yeast.

 

[jgoette]

Your primary didn't have an airlock?

 

[tedski]

Is this because all of the fermenting is over? It's had been 4-5 days since I pitched the yeast.

Precisely. The secondary is mostly for clarifying. You may see some very sporadic activity, you may not.

 

[natural]

Nope. That's what seemed so starnge. It's honestly like a plastic garbage can. The only difference is it doesn't have a foot pedal to step on to lift the lid...

Honestly in every store i'd looked at all of their primarys didnt have one. The only reason i'm wondering is because everytime I read about people brewing they talk about airlocks on their primary.

 

[jgoette]

Yea, if you fermented in your primary with no airlock what-so-ever, I would say the diarrhea looking stuff is an infection.

 

[tedski]

Can you post a picture of your primary? I'm not sure I'm seeing it right. Technically speaking, if you're on top of racking to secondary and monitoring the primary, the primary fermentation creates enough CO2 that it will be impossible for bacteria and/or wild yeast to get into there. Remember that the microbes you're worrying about can't run/jump/swim/climb.

 

[natural]

This would be what was given as a primary fermenter.
http://www.northernbrewer.com/brewing/10-gal-fermenter-and-lid.html

 

[natural]

Even in the kit instructions it doesn't mention using an airlock until transferring into the glass carboy.

 

[Revvy]

Yea, if you fermented in your primary with no airlock what-so-ever, I would say the diarrhea looking stuff is an infection.

???????? Why?????? It actually sounds like KRAUSEN to me... Why would you assume that because a lid doesn't have a silly airlock that the OP's beer would be infected???

An airlock is nothing more than a vent, a valve to release excess co2 and to keep the beer off the ceiling, but it's not some magic anti-infection barrier.

Certain kits have buckets that don't have grommet holes and airlocks....by putting the lid on loosely it allows co2 to be released and prevents stuff from getting in.. If co2 is getting out, then NOTHING can get it.

Some folks don't even use airlocks, some cover their buckets with plexigalss sheets or even plastic wrap or tinfoil, and on carboys they just throw on some tinfoil on top where the bung would be...just loose enough for any excess co2 to be voided out.

It's nothing to be concerned about. A beer ferments whether there is an airlock on the fermenter or not.

If you want to be "normal" punch a hole in your lid, get a rubber grommet from the hardware store and put an airlock on it...but you don't need one as long as the co2 can get out.

 

[Revvy]

Can you post a picture of your primary? I'm not sure I'm seeing it right. Technically speaking, if you're on top of racking to secondary and monitoring the primary, the primary fermentation creates enough CO2 that it will be impossible for bacteria and/or wild yeast to get into there. Remember that the microbes you're worrying about can't run/jump/swim/climb.

Sanity prevails.

 

[natural]

haha okay, and the stuff that dropped to the bottom of the bucket? I wish I had a picture. It was like... stuff just setteled at the bottom of it. It was just a thicker cloudly looking portion. It was even like that right away. Dont people tell you not to suck up off the bottom becausey you'll get the sediement inside also?

 

[Revvy]

This would be what was given as a primary fermenter.
http://www.northernbrewer.com/brewing/10-gal-fermenter-and-lid.html

It says it right here;

Large 10 gallon food-grade plastic fermenter. Ideal for primary fermentation of red wine must. Does not take an airlock; lid is not airtight.

See, perfectly normal...Probably not too different from a mr beer keg, it has some little notches or pinholes to vent out the co2 build up.

Remember folks, airtight is NOT required or recommended actually for a fermentation container (unless you ferment in a keg) becuase if your fermenter becomes "airtight" then more than likely you'll end up hearing a big BOOM and notice your ceiling had a new color.....

 

[tedski]

If you want to be "normal" punch a hole in your lid, get a rubber grommet from the hardware store and put an airlock on it...but you don't need one as long as the co2 can get out.

Even then, you still may not see any activity. The pressure will exit the path of least resistance, which is under your lid. The airlock would just give you something to worry about.

 

[tedski]

haha okay, and the stuff that dropped to the bottom of the bucket? I wish I had a picture. It was like... stuff just setteled at the bottom of it. It was just a thicker cloudly looking portion. It was even like that right away. Dont people tell you not to suck up off the bottom becausey you'll get the sediement inside also?

You are correct. You did it all correctly. That is called the trub and is left behind every time you rack. More may fall out of suspension in your secondary. Leave it behind when you bottle. More will fall out of suspension in your bottle. Leave it behind when you pour it in your glass.

 

[Revvy]

Even then, you still may not see any activity. The pressure will exit the path of least resistance, which is under your lid. The airlock would just give you something to worry about.

Exactly!!!!!!!! New brewers put waaay too much importance on those things. Like they are magic fermentation gauges or something.

 

[tedski]

Remember folks, airtight is NOT required or recommended actually for a fermentation container (unless you ferment in a keg) becuase if your fermenter becomes "airtight" then more than likely you'll end up hearing a big BOOM and notice your ceiling had a new color.....

To expand on Revvy's note: More resistance in the fermenter (read: higher pressure from heavier air locks and such) actually increase ester production. This is precisely why some styles are best fermented "open", that is with no air lock.

 

[natural]

Well that makes me feel better knowing I wasn't ripped off haha. And about the infection? I remember this sediment being there all along. I wish I had a picture of it. It was like maybe 2 inches from the bottom of the pale.

 

[NuclearRich]

To expand on Revvy's note: More resistance in the fermenter (read: higher pressure from heavier air locks and such) actually increase ester production. This is precisely why some styles are best fermented "open", that is with no air lock.

Now THAT is some quality information! If it wasn't for Revvy, I was going to go ballistic about the worry over infection, thats crazy talk.
And a little more reassurance: So long as you maintain a clean enviroment, there is SOO little you can do to really destroy your beer. Always seek out ways to adjust, or perhaps just let time and yeast do their thing. Don't ever dump good, hard earned beer!

 

[jgoette]

If co2 is getting out, then NOTHING can get it.

i would say that as long as fermentation is still occuring and co2 is being released in constant stream, then nothing can get in (this is how a cleanroom functions)

 

[JLem]

At this point, now that the idea of an infection has been correctly thrown out and the use of an airlock (or not) has been clarified, I'd like to suggest that you not move future beers to secondary unless you want to add some fruit, dry hop (and maybe not even then), or if you are going to bulk age it for a while (i.e. months). At the very least wait longer than 4-6 days to do so. The yeast still have work to do and by racking too soon you prevent them from doing so. Most of my beers sit in primary for 3 weeks and then I rack to my bottling bucket and bottle. Very rarely do I move it to a secondary.

 

[Revvy]

At this point, now that the idea of an infection has been correctly thrown out and the use of an airlock (or not) has been clarified, I'd like to suggest that you not move future beers to secondary unless you want to add some fruit, dry hop (and maybe not even then), or if you are going to bulk age it for a while (i.e. months). At the very least wait longer than 4-6 days to do so. The yeast still have work to do and by racking too soon you prevent them from doing so. Most of my beers sit in primary for 3 weeks and then I rack to my bottling bucket and bottle. Very rarely do I move it to a secondary.

Good on you for mentioning that. I was trying toget out the door to the grocery store. Trying to get shortribs in the crockpot before the lion's game. I just couldn't let the idiotic infection comment slide. Didn't have time to mention long primaries.

Back to the kitchen I go!

 

[Beer_Guy]

Yea, if you fermented in your primary with no airlock what-so-ever, I would say the diarrhea looking stuff is an infection.

Now this comment HAD to come from someone who has NEVER seen trub.

I have seen some really nasty stuff from Yeast Blends that looks like the kid drank some spoiled milk. The White Labs WLP060 American Ale Blend was just gross looking. Beer was nice though.

 

[JLem]

Good on you for mentioning that. I was trying toget out the door to the grocery store. Trying to get shortribs in the crockpot before the lion's game. I just couldn't let the idiotic infection comment slide. Didn't have time to mention long primaries.

Back to the kitchen I go!

Figured you would approve. And was surprised you hadn't said something to this effect.

Enjoy the ribs and the game...at least the ribs will probably be good

 

[natural]

haha. I'm very glad I found this place. It has practically all the information compiled and people are actually helpful. I didnt think there was an infection especially because I noticed sediment before even finishing the cake mix.

Next i'm going to do is DME and i'd like to add some fruit so i'll actually move that. Would there be any harm in transferring half into the glass carboy with fruit and leaving the other half in the primary? Incase the fruit makes it taste awful.

 

[Revvy]

when you split a batch to secondary you really should then use a smaller vessel (like a 3 gallon betterbottle or even a #2 water bottle) rather than racking to a full sized vessel and/or leaving some in primary. You need a smaller headspace post fermentation to keep the beer from oxydizing and getting a wet cardboard flavor.

I have several 3 gallon water bottles for this purpose. There is then no problem with splitting a batch and experimenting like that, I do it all the time. But one thing tom consider, if you long primary like many of us for 3-4 weeks, is to rack to your fruit for one half and at the same time just go ahead and bottle the "plain" beer. Or you could at 2 weeks after yeast pitch just rack them both over.

 

[Legin]

My krausen always looks like diarrhea. Now if your diarrhea is white and fuzzy, then I would be worried.

 

[NuclearRich]

At this point, now that the idea of an infection has been correctly thrown out and the use of an airlock (or not) has been clarified, I'd like to suggest that you not move future beers to secondary unless you want to add some fruit, dry hop (and maybe not even then), or if you are going to bulk age it for a while (i.e. months). At the very least wait longer than 4-6 days to do so. The yeast still have work to do and by racking too soon you prevent them from doing so. Most of my beers sit in primary for 3 weeks and then I rack to my bottling bucket and bottle. Very rarely do I move it to a secondary.

If you rack to a secondary... I would think that you are actually (perhaps, I am theorizing) increasing the yeasts production by shaking up some lazy cells. Even if my theory is crazy, how would racking to a secondary prevent the yeast from working? If they still have fermenting to do, won't that happen in secondary?

 

[Revvy]

If you rack to a secondary... I would think that you are actually (perhaps, I am theorizing) increasing the yeasts production by shaking up some lazy cells. Even if my theory is crazy, how would racking to a secondary prevent the yeast from working? If they still have fermenting to do, won't that happen in secondary?

You are pulling the beer off the most active yeast. And relying on the least flocculent and therefore least active yeast to try to do the job.

But rather than re-iventing the wheel here by going over the same ground that we've gone around and around about something that we've discussed to death on here for over three years (and there is PLENTY of info to let you decide) why don't you read this thread, which probably has the most recent discussion on here.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f163/s...amil-zainasheff-weigh-176837/?highlight=jamil

 

[NuclearRich]

Me and my crazy theorizing... lol. It is a good thing we have people like you who really know what they are saying.
I've read two pages so far, very enlightening. And just in time, too! My amber will stay in the primary now.

 

[paraordnance]

hey natural, I think I have exactly same beer making equipment kit as you, (probably because we in same area) same "garbage" bucket with loose lid :rockin: I left my for 1 week in primary, then will move for 2 weeks in secondary. Visual yeast activity finished like on day 3 but I still leave it for full week. Hopefully it will turn out ok, my first batch and I was worried about that 10 gal bucket, but everything will be ok I'm sure