Aging Questions

[ErieBuoy]

With all of the great, informative posts here, I have successfully encouraged my yeast to ferment 5 gallons of fresh-pressed apple juice from a local orchard. OG was 1.050 and the SG yesterday night was 1.000. It tasted great -- tart and tangy with some apple flavor left. I used WL775, pitched on 20 Oct. (20 days ago). There were some off flavors (light vinegary taste) that I hope will mellow with time.

I would like the cider to keep the main flavor notes I've got right now. I plan to force carbonate and bottle it. I'd like to age the cider since it seems unanimously recommended. So, I have the following questions about how to proceed:

At what temperature should I age the cider? I kept fermentation temps right at 70 degF, which was in the recommended range for WL775. Is aging at a colder temperature preferred? How will the taste change over the next six months -- how much drier and less tangy will it get? I'd like to retain as much apple flavor as I can -- is there a strategy that favors that outcome?

If I stabilize it chemically, does the cider still age, or does the aging process require live yeast to do things like "clean up after itself?" This is a phrase I read often in beer brewing discussions when advocating a long primary/secondary period.

Thanks again to all contributors for maintaining and growing such an informative forum.

 

[Kauai_Kahuna]

ErieBuoy - I would say that the longer you let it sit, the better it will taste. How good is your patience?
Bottling is hell, but if you can, hide some and forget about them for as long as you can.
As long as the cider is clearing, I would say rack to a secondary, store it at what ever temp you got as long as it does not go over 75F. No location in your profile, but for most people that is not really a problem. Higher temps will not really hurt, but they will not help.
I personally like to crash cool before bottling/kegging, but racking to secondary I usually just drop the temp by 10F for two days. But this is after it has settled. My last cider took 5 weeks, my last mead took 6 weeks, my current house ale is over a week. Usually the ale would be done in 5 days with this recipe and yeast. But they are doing the work, I'm just the manager.
I adjust to the fermentation. One week after no further changes in the hydrometer is a good technical answer, I just watch my yeast and I know when they are done.

 

[ErieBuoy]

Thanks for the response, Kauai.

I guess I'm really debating whether to stabilize or not. With a SG of 1.000, do you think I'm going to lose the apple-ly flavor I've got after 6 months of aging/secondary? Does chemical stabilization help maintain that? I hear people talk of having the cider wind up completely dry; is an SG of 1.000/1.001 completely dry? I guess it's a question of if the yeast is spent or if there is any sugar left?

I'm in State College, PA -- it'll be between 30 degF and 50 degF for the next few weeks outside. I was thinking of putting it outside for a week or so to cold-crash it. But, since I want to age it for six months before I bottle, a week of cold-crashing won't kill the yeast, just stun them. If I leave it outside much into December, I suspect it'll freeze. There's a spot in my house that might keep it in the mid-50's until spring, though.

As for patience, I've got plenty . . . my more typical flaw is one of over-optimization/over-thinking . . . although I enjoy the mantra of RDWHAHB as often as I can.

 

[GrantLee63]

I make my ciders every fall and let them ferment and age in my basement which varies in temp throughout the year between 58-70 F.

My ciders / apfelweins are:

4 months in the primary
4 months in the secondary (usually on medium toast American oak)
16 months in tertiary

That's right - 2 years! I then keg and enjoy. Good ciders and apfelweins require patience, but if you make yours every year in the fall, you will (after the initial 2 years) always have properly aged and conditioned ciders on tap or bottled. YMMV

- GL63

 

[ErieBuoy]

Thanks for the response with your temperatures, duration and sequence -- just what I was asking about.

So, you only rack twice before you rack to a keg -- are there a lot of lees at the bottom of the secondary when you rack it to the tertiary? Obviously, you don't have any worries to have the cider sit on lees (if there are any?) in the tertiary for so long.

The only problem with experimenting with cider making is the long time between experiment design and the results . . . do you vary your yeast or apple blend from year to year, GrantLee? Do you notice differences from year to year?

Thanks again for the discussion and sharing your experience.

 

[GrantLee63]

Yes, I rack only twice - once from primary to secondary, and again from secondary to tertiary. The amount of sediment that falls in the tertiary is negligible.

I just recently got into making ciders and apfelweins, so I can't reallly comment if there are any year-to-year variations relative to different apple blends. I'm drinking my first 2 year old cider this year, 2007's vintage will be next fall, and I made my 2008 vintage this past October, and I've purchased my cider from 2 different cider mills in my area.

I've used two different yeast strains to date: WLP775 and WY4766 - The first two batches the former, and the one I made in October the latter, so again, I can't comment if there is any difference between these two strains as I have yet to taste the batch made with WY4766.

The only thing I will tell you is that aging makes all the difference in the world, so get into the habit of making at least one batch that you intend on bulk-aging for 2 years each and every year and you will always have properly conditioned and aged cider. The first two years are always the hardest, but you can make some apfelwein to enjoy while you are waiting for your traditional ciders to age !

Good Luck !

- GL63