After bottling beer changes flavor, but not for the better.

[Sterlingbrewery]

Good afternoon fellow brewer's. I am a new brewer working on my 3rd batch. They taste fantastic when they are done carbonating in the bottles, however a week or two later the taste bitters and gets skunky. Talking to a fellow brewer, he said that my fermentation temperature is too high. I ferment at 70 degrees or less but higher than 63. According to the kit directions, that is within the temp. My question is what is a cheap way to keep the fermentation cool when I live in an apartment? I thought about making a modified wort cooler and putting it in the fermenter and running cool water through it. I don't pay for water so the cost really doesn't concern me.

Another question, when boiling the wort do I take specific gravity before I add water to the wort? Do I take it after adding the water? It seems that when using kits my SG is always off by a significant factor according to the instructions. After the boiling of the wort, do I add one gallon at a time and take a realtime so to speak gravity readings until I hit the correct SG reading?

Thank you for the help brew community!

 

[JonM]

How soon after bottling do you start sampling them? Also, where do you store them before putting them in the fridge?

 

[Newbeerguy]

Welcome to HBT!

As for your beer, how are you storing them after bottling? Skunky makes me think that light is getting to the bottles. That is what causes the beer to skunk, the light reacts with the oils from the hops.
As for the bitterness, how long after bottling are you waiting to sample the beer? Sometimes if you try the beer too soon, the CO2 isn't fully asorbed in the beer and you will taste a carbonic bite to it. My suggestion is to keep the bottles away from light, let it carb up for at least 3 weeks, then stick the beer in a fridge and try it in a couple days.

 

[BierMuncher]

Good afternoon fellow brewer's. I am a new brewer working on my 3rd batch. They taste fantastic when they are done carbonating in the bottles, however a week or two later the taste bitters and gets skunky. Talking to a fellow brewer, he said that my fermentation temperature is too high. I ferment at 70 degrees or less but higher than 63. According to the kit directions, that is within

Most likely you are bottling with residual sugars that continue to ferment in the bottle.

70 is a bit on the high side. If these were my beers I'd:

• Get my fermentation temp to 65 (+/-) degrees.
• Leave in the primary for three weeks.
• Rack to a secondary or bottling bucket and let sit another 5 days.
• Double check the sanitation of your bottles.
• Once they've reached proper carbonation, get them to a cooler spot...or even into the fridge.

 

[Sterlingbrewery]

Thank you for the quick replies. After boil I transfer to primary fermenter for 3-4 weeks depending on my beer style, then I transfer to a secondary for a week. Then I filter into the bottles. I leave the bottles in the closet for 3 weeks at room temp, then I put into fridge. I sample the beer as soon as it is cold.

I added a little to the op if y'all have any input.

 

[Tall_Yotie]

Are you sure it is an actual skunked taste? Skunked is a specific off flavor, not just "bad" as it were. Could it be that you are oxidizing your beer during bottling or transfer to the secondary?

I assume the beers carbed up correctly and got to the expected Final Gravity, yes?

For measuring specific gravity (assuming original gravity) it is the final SG of the wort. So this is your fully 5g, right before you would pitch in yeast. Reading it concentrated or hot will give you the wrong number.

As for keeping it cool, I tend to stick the carboy in the coolest part of my apartment. A closet could work if you are willing, as they tend to stay fairly consistent in temperature.

 

[unionrdr]

Maybe rephrase that? lol,the OG isn't the final gravity. FG is final gravity. And add all the top off water & mix like crazy before taking OG measurement. And many ale yeasts are fine at 70F. Even US-05,& cooper's ale yeast,among several others. You can't classify all ale yeasts as you would those that can go to 60F or so that have lower attenuation & lower flocculation.

 

[cfonnes]

You filter into your bottles?

How do you do that?

 

[Tall_Yotie]

By the final SG of the wort I meant wort, not beer Sorry, could see that as confusing.

 

[unionrdr]

Yeah,I sorta knew you meant that,just had to goof on it after the day I've had.

 

[malkore]

You filter into your bottles?

How do you do that?

I too am confused...do you "FILTER" your beer or do you mean "siphon into bottling bucket and bottle"?

most who filter use a fine enough filter that you have no yeast left to carbonate the bottles...

 

[Sterlingbrewery]

You filter into your bottles?

How do you do that?

I take a fine painters filter and strain the beer.

 

[Tall_Yotie]

Is that a fine sanitized painter's filter?
Are you pouring through the filter into the bottles? This sounds like a very good potential for oxidation. If you are racking to a secondary and/or a bottling bucket then there is no need to filter.
Are you using a bottling wand?

 

[Sterlingbrewery]

Is that a fine sanitized painter's filter?
Are you pouring through the filter into the bottles? This sounds like a very good potential for oxidation. If you are racking to a secondary and/or a bottling bucket then there is no need to filter.
Are you using a bottling wand?

Yes it is sanitized. What do you mean by oxidation? And no I don't use a wand, I fill the bottles from the spigot on the 2nd fermenter.

 

[Tall_Yotie]

Aaaaaah, there is your problem.

Does the flavor taste stale, almost cardboardy or papery? Then you might have oxidation, which is the addition of oxygen to the beer after it has fermented. This comes usually from splashing after fermentation has started, and is a common bane of new brewers. Easy mistake to make.

If you are filling from the spigot then the beer splashed into the bottles, mixing in air, potentially giving it an off-flavor.

Bottling wand, or bottle filler:

http://www.northernbrewer.com/brewi...tling-accessories/fermtech-bottle-filler.html

I usually say it is required for anyone bottling. Cheap, easy to get at the local brew shop.

Also, when racking to the secondary, are you splashing he beer at all? It should be a gentle transfer, as again you do not want to add any oxygen to the beer after fermentation has started.

I think this really is the root cause of your bad flavors. Luckily, it is easily fixed for the next batch!

 

[Sterlingbrewery]

Aaaaaah, there is your problem.

Does the flavor taste stale, almost cardboardy or papery? Then you might have oxidation, which is the addition of oxygen to the beer after it has fermented. This comes usually from splashing after fermentation has started, and is a common bane of new brewers. Easy mistake to make.

If you are filling from the spigot then the beer splashed into the bottles, mixing in air, potentially giving it an off-flavor.

Bottling wand, or bottle filler:

http://www.northernbrewer.com/brewing/brewing-equipment/bottling/bottling-accessories/fermtech-bottle-filler.html

I usually say it is required for anyone bottling. Cheap, easy to get at the local brew shop.

Also, when racking to the secondary, are you splashing he beer at all? It should be a gentle transfer, as again you do not want to add any oxygen to the beer after fermentation has started.

I think this really is the root cause of your bad flavors. Luckily, it is easily fixed for the next batch!

Ok, I'll order that bottle filler. When filling bottles I avoid splashing as much as possible, however when filtering into the secondary I do splash it around. So I'll try to prevent that from now on. Thanks for the advice!

 

[Tall_Yotie]

Ok, I'll order that bottle filler. When filling bottles I avoid splashing as much as possible, however when filtering into the secondary I do splash it around. So I'll try to prevent that from now on. Thanks for the advice!

You are welcome!

Aye, that is where the big problem comes from, the transferring to the secondary. A co-worker that recently got into brewing had his first batch oxidized. Apparently when he transferred to a bucket for bottling there was a decent amount of splashing. The beer tasted like it could have been really good if not for that oxidized flavor.

There were two bottle fillers on that web site, I have both and both are fine, so figure out what works best for you. The bottles get filled to the top of the bottle, and when you remove the filler stick the level of the beer will drop to pretty much exactly where it needs to be.

 

[jsweet]

One more question: What is your sanitizer?

I just discovered that I ruined my second batch at bottling time because I was using up the last of my C-Brite before I switched to Starsan, and apparently I didn't rinse well enough and now they all have a Band Aid-like flavor from chlorophenols that is not likely to go away with age. Very pissed off about that!

Anyway, I mention it because my symptom was similar: Tasted great at bottling time, after conditioning for a couple weeks it is basically undrinkable. I wouldn't describe it as "skunky" or "bitter" though, so this is probably not your problem. Just thought I'd check.

 

[Sterlingbrewery]

One more question: What is your sanitizer?

I just discovered that I ruined my second batch at bottling time because I was using up the last of my C-Brite before I switched to Starsan, and apparently I didn't rinse well enough and now they all have a Band Aid-like flavor from chlorophenols that is not likely to go away with age. Very pissed off about that!

Anyway, I mention it because my symptom was similar: Tasted great at bottling time, after conditioning for a couple weeks it is basically undrinkable. I wouldn't describe it as "skunky" or "bitter" though, so this is probably not your problem. Just thought I'd check.

Promise you won't judge me too badly, I used bleach heavily diluted and rinsed very well. I now use the actual sanitizer for beer. I have yet to test various sanitizers but I will try the one you described.

 

[Sterlingbrewery]

You are welcome!

Aye, that is where the big problem comes from, the transferring to the secondary. A co-worker that recently got into brewing had his first batch oxidized. Apparently when he transferred to a bucket for bottling there was a decent amount of splashing. The beer tasted like it could have been really good if not for that oxidized flavor.

There were two bottle fillers on that web site, I have both and both are fine, so figure out what works best for you. The bottles get filled to the top of the bottle, and when you remove the filler stick the level of the beer will drop to pretty much exactly where it needs to be.

I like the spring loaded one listed on the website, too many problems listed with the other one.

 

[jsweet]

Promise you won't judge me too badly, I used bleach heavily diluted and rinsed very well. I now use the actual sanitizer for beer. I have yet to test various sanitizers but I will try the one you described.

I don't judge ya, many many many people use exclusively bleach with great success. I will never ever use a chlorine-based sanitizer again, but that's not a judgment on people who do; that's a judgment on a) my own apparently inadequate rinsing ability, and b) the clear superiority of Starsan in terms of ease of use and foolproof-ness.

Anyway, if you would describe the taste you are encountering as "Band-aid like" or medicinal, then it's possible that bleach (or too much chloramines in your tap water) is the issue. It didn't sound like that's what you described though.

 

[unionrdr]

Yup,I love the volume displacement bit. Leaves the right head space every time. Kinda reminds me of the space left in canning jars. Only automatic. Just use a tube from the fermenter to the bottom of the bottling bucket. No splashing that way. Gotta move the beer gently,weather moving to secondary,bottling bucket,&/or bottle.

 

[beergolf]

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f35/bottling-tips-homebrewer-94812/

Read this thread to help you refine your bottling procedure. Lots of good tips in there.

 

[Yooper]

I take a fine painters filter and strain the beer.

As was mentioned, we think we found out the problem with the flavor. Oxidation will ruin a beer, so it's important to gently siphon the beer after fermentation has started when you transfer or bottle. A siphon tubing, bottling wand, and a very "quiet" transfer will improve it tremendously.

I'd recommend not using bleach or any type of chlorinated product around your beer or brewery. I know some have used it with sucess, but I have not. Iodophor or star-san are not expensive and work very well.

 

[jsweet]

@Yooper, not to thread-jack, but I was wondering if you had any comments about [url="https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f39/band-aid-taste-because-i-used-c-brite-247153/]this thread[/url], as you are clearly a very experienced and respected brewer and it seems you are alluding to some past failures using chlorine-based sanitizers. I'd really love for somebody to tell me, "Oh, if you gave the bottles a few squirts with your bottle washer it is probably not the C-Brite, I bet if you just wait a couple more weeks that flavor will go away..." but I'm guessing that is not the case

 

[Tall_Yotie]

So, wrapping up what all I have to say:

-Gently rack to a secondary if you decide to do secondary. For getting your first brews under your belt, I would suggest ignoring the secondary vessel and just rack into a bottling bucket and bottling time. Use a hose and make sure there is no splashing.

-Don't worry about filtering, at least for the first few batches. I don't filter and my beer tastes clean, and I figure same with a great majority here. Slowly add in processes, so if you have something go wrong it is easier to track where the issue came from.

-Use a bottling wand to avoid splashing in the bottle.

-get some StarSan. It is really, REALLY easy to use, and unlike bleach you don't have a potential source for off flavors. I did bleach for my first batch, once I got the StarSan I was converted. Plus, you can clean up splashes without fear of bleaching towels and clothing!

-Read up on Revvy's thread about bottling, as was linked by an above poster.

With all of this I figure you can make some great beer! You post like a smart fellow, seem together, so you should be able to get the process figured out pretty easily.

Happy brewing!

 

[Yooper]

@Yooper, not to thread-jack, but I was wondering if you had any comments about [url="https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f39/band-aid-taste-because-i-used-c-brite-247153/]this thread[/url], as you are clearly a very experienced and respected brewer and it seems you are alluding to some past failures using chlorine-based sanitizers. I'd really love for somebody to tell me, "Oh, if you gave the bottles a few squirts with your bottle washer it is probably not the C-Brite, I bet if you just wait a couple more weeks that flavor will go away..." but I'm guessing that is not the case

Well............that's probably not the case. Sorry!

 

[cfonnes]

Filtering through a paint strainer is not a good idea.

It would be very hard to avoid oxidation.

 

[Revvy]

And no I don't use a wand, I fill the bottles from the spigot on the 2nd fermenter.

That's how you're ruining your beer, especially if you are ALSO splashing it through a filter of some sort.

You are aerating and oxidyzing the beer by letting it fall through the oxygen in the bottle. Wands fill from the bottom of the bottle to the top, pushing out the o2 as it fills. That doesn't happen from the spigot directly, it's falling INTO the air in the bottle.

If you don't have a bottling wand, at least you want to affix a hose to it, and use it sort of like the bottling wand to fill slowly from the bottom upward.

As you fill from the bottom up you are also voiding out the oxygen in the bottle, by having the co2 and beer rise up out of the bottle, pushing the o2 out ahead of it. SO in a sense you are purging the bottles of o2. You can sometimes see it happen when you bottle, if you do the recommending letting the caps sit loosely on top for a few minutes before crimping them. That allows the co2 being created to like I said, push out of the headspace-you will sometimes see the bottle camps jump right off the top.

Your beers is taking a turn for the negative almost as soon as you bottle it. Think of it as "easily bruised by air" as you are filling them. You're pretty just splashing your beer in a oxygen rich environment and oxygen + fermented beer = "Liquid cardboard." Or staling. It's not skunky you are tasting, you are tasting stale beer.

Take a look at my bottling sticky for more information.

 

[Sterlingbrewery]

Thank you again for all the great information. My brewing buddy wants to start doing infused brews with orange zest and spices. I was wondering if someone knew of a thread on here that I could reference. Thanks again.

 

[Revvy]

Thank you again for all the great information. My brewing buddy wants to start doing infused brews with orange zest and spices. I was wondering if someone knew of a thread on here that I could reference. Thanks again.

There's thousands of threads on that topic....we have a search feature which will help you find all the info you need.

 

[Sterlingbrewery]

I tried to search the forums but came up empty handed. I searched for adding fruit adding spices I looked under both fermentation and ingredients but did not see or find anything. Any help on where to start the search for when and what fruits/spices to add to wort I'd appreciate any help!

 

[ArcaneXor]

Thank you again for all the great information. My brewing buddy wants to start doing infused brews with orange zest and spices. I was wondering if someone knew of a thread on here that I could reference. Thanks again.

Like a witbier? We have a forum with wit recipes on here that contain good info - look for the Belgian and French Ales forum